Who wants to Megasquirt, full sequential fuel/ spark a 68 charger! This Guy!!

[redmist]

Mine is right here at TDC.

[Aussiemadonmopars]

Aussiemadonmopars I am pretty sure that I read in a forum I think on DIY that 60 teeth did not work well for high rpm I don't recall how high they were talking about but look into it before you go that way. A 36 tooth does seem to be plenty accurate it has not missed a beat yet.

I spose it depends on the sensor sensitivity but I would of thought at higher RPM having the extra 2 degree's of gap would help somewhat.

[MechTech]

redmist   If I see your picture correctly it looks like the sensor sees tooth one at least 40 degs BTDC. What number are you using for your tooth 1 offset?   Oh I see what happened I said what I said wrong. The sensor needs to see tooth one 40 degs BTDC. My tooth 1 offset set is 35

[redmist]

Yup, I am at 40deg offset in the software.

[peterro]

Ok, I'm confused.

It appears that the angle from TDC to tooth 1 is the important measure and that the sensor location doesn't matter? I see your picture is that tooth 1 is 40deg btdc and the sensor looks like another 40deg before that. The recommendation below implies that both wheel and sensor should be at 40deg (for v8).

I hadn't realized this before putting the wheel on the pulley so my tooth 1 is at about tdc and my sensor is about 50deg btdc. I'm wondering what settings I should use to compensate.

For reference, this is from the documentation:

The code can cope with any tooth#1 angle. However, during cranking the engine speed varies up and down
greatly as the engine rotates. It is desirable to place the missing tooth such that it passes the sensor when the
engine speed is somewhat stable or it may be impossible for the ECU to "see" the missing tooth. The OEMs
have found that certain tooth#1 angles work well and it is worth following their lead.

It is suggested to align your wheel and sensor to arrive at the following tooth #1 angles.

[MechTech]

Hi  peterro     In my opinion what you have described sounds pretty close to what you want. A number near 40deg. in your tooth one offset should work fine.  You use the tooth one offset to adjust your timing so that it matches what you have in your timing table. When you are trying to start for the first time don't fire the injectors (you should have fuses to your injectors pull them) just crank it and check your timing with a light and make sure its stable and where you want it for starting.

[peterro]

Now that makes a lot of sense. I did just what you said and now have it (per the factory gauge) at about a little above the 20deg mark when cranking. I think that's about right. My #1 tooth angle is now is at 45deg.

Now on to the last item of plumbing the fuel and installing the pump. Yesterday was all about installing the throttle/kickdown cables. Throttle is from a Buick Park Avenue and kickdown is a hood release from a chevy truck (in the Lokar housing). I couldn't find anything else long enough. In any case, they both seem to be working perfectly. Only a slight modification to the pedal to allow the cable end to pass through the hole. It's getting close. I have 1-week before the show (my arbitrary deadline).

Thanks again for all the help.

[MechTech]

hi peterro    one other thing you can do to make sure you are getting spark at the proper time in the cycle. If you pull all of the plugs except for cylinder one and crank it you should hear the compression on cylinder one and then the spark.

[SaskRunner]

SASKRUNNER: there is a section in the MS3 manual (around page 122 of 212) that goes into positioning the missing tooth/tdc and the sensor. From memory...  you need to give the computer time to read TDC (especially at high rpms) so you want to set it up that the sensor sees the gap then a few teeth (as set in the manual) and then TDC. Mine has the gap set so the sensor sees TDC approximately 5 teeth after the gap.

I THINK.... that it's not critical where the missing tooth is as long as the position of the sensor relative to the gap gives the computer time to read a few teeth before TDC.

If your gap and sensor were both at TDC then not enough time. Your gap at TDC and your sensor set 50 degrees counterclockwise to TDC= enough time.

I hope this helps

After reading this thread and looking in the manual.  I went back out to the car and moved the sensor to the lowest position and lined it up with TDC.  This put the motor at 60 BTDC.

As I comprehend it.  I will get the gap at 60 BTDC.  This gives me lots of room as I run the timing at 32 degrees advanced.

Does that sound logical?

My next question is about the sensor.

Currently I am using a VR sensor with the crank trigger set up.

Will it work with a 36-1 wheel?

[peterro]

Thanks for the help. I'm running the same VR sensor that redmist is with a 36-1 wheel. I got my plug wire boots yesterday and put them on. I don't have fuel so to test spark, I sprayed some starting fluid in. It cranked a couple times and then made the right noise and ran for about a half second. Woo Hoo!

Now to plumb the fuel.

[MechTech]

Hi SASKRUNNER
The manual seems to indicate that the setting should be 40 deg. for a V8. In my brief scan I did not see a reason for it being 40 deg.. I am pretty sure in my researching this in the past that the reason for the 40deg. setting is because the motor while cranking is the most settled / consistant at that degree in the cycle. I don't think there is any other reason for it.
As far as the VR sensor I'm not sure if it will work or not, what I do know is it is difficult to adjust the pots in the control. if you already have it adjusted try it and see if you get a signal otherwise a Hall Sensor is rather straight forward.

[SaskRunner]

I emailed DIYAutotune about this.  Their response was the only position the gap cannot be in is lined up with the sensor when the motor is at TDC.  So I ordered my  wheel with the gap at TDC  on the damper.  This gives me 60 degrees of lead before the motor reaches TDC.

[Aussiemadonmopars]

So just a quick recap for us amateurs; what you guys have done so far with the MS3X, can that be done with the MS2 + daughter board? What are the additional features between them so far?

[MechTech]

Aussiemadonmopars
I never looked into the MS2 so I don't know the answer but if you try this link I think it has the info you are looking for.
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/MS3_Settings.html
you can select the setup manual for MS1,2 or 3

[Black_Bee]

I've been following this thread for some time now, but just decided to register and share my success too!

Mine is a 383 (in a Super Bee, sorry!), so there isn't as cool an EFI intake available (or any EFI intake) so I had to modify an old Torker, but I used the same basic recipe.  MS3X, Jeep cam sensor, LS truck coils, 36-1 wheel.

I got mine running about two weeks ago and really haven't had much time to work on tuning it, but it sure runs nicely right out of the box!

[Aussiemadonmopars]

Did you do the EFI manifold yourself or have a shop do it? Your right, there is nothing for a low deck motor in EFI.

[Black_Bee]

Did you do the EFI manifold yourself or have a shop do it? Your right, there is nothing for a low deck motor in EFI.

I did it myself... it took quite a while since I only have access to a tiny drill press, but the end result is pretty nice.  I don't have access to aluminum welding equipment, so I just epoxied the bungs in.  First I tried to use some aluminum brazing rods, but that proved quite hopeless.

I kind of made a simple jig (not as nice as I had planned) for drilling the holes in the runners so I could add the bungs to any intake that I got my hands on, with the hopes of scoring a deal on a Victor 383 intake one day.

If I had to do it again, I would probably just buy a Victor new and modify it... the Torker that I used is so low that the fuel rails really got in the way of the linkages and I needed to add a 2" carb spacer to get anything to work.

[peterro]

Thanks for the 383 info. Will put it to use on my father-in-laws Roadrunner.

MechTech and Redmist, what did you use for your PCV valve setup?

[redmist]

I used some aftermarket "Billet" caps and drilled holes in the Valve Covers for them. One of the billet caps has a PCV valve in it, and I ran that to the back of the intake. The other cap is a vented cap.

[MechTech]

I used the grommets out of an old set of valve covers and connected the PVC to the left side middle of the intake. Proofs to Black_Bee for your ingenuity. That's one of the coolest things about this DIY stuff figuring out how to make it work and building it.

[Derwud]

Wow 20 pages of great info!! I am starting research on building my car with EFI. I have looked at the off the shelf stuff and had it down to the Holley TBI set-up. Well someone said if you are going to go, jump all in and go TPI, so jumped down that foxhole and found some other resources, including a place that will sell me a Edelbrock / Fast system for $4k.. But I don't want to go with Fast or pay 4k... So now is time for my Automotive training to kick in... Thank God my Dad bought us those Radio Shack kits as a Kid...

[Black_Bee]

Wow 20 pages of great info!! I am starting research on building my car with EFI. I have looked at the off the shelf stuff and had it down to the Holley TBI set-up. Well someone said if you are going to go, jump all in and go TPI, so jumped down that foxhole and found some other resources, including a place that will sell me a Edelbrock / Fast system for $4k.. But I don't want to go with Fast or pay 4k... So now is time for my Automotive training to kick in... Thank God my Dad bought us those Radio Shack kits as a Kid...

It depends what is included in that $4k. The route I took was almost entirely DIY (I bought an assembled MS3x, and had a machinist fit the trigger wheel to the crank pulley) and I overspent on a few items (Phantom 340 in tank pump kit), and couldn't source ANY used sensors or connectors, bought a used intake, injectors, and coils and I am not far off of that $4000 all said and done.

[Derwud]

That doesn't include Fuel Supply. I was going to go with a Tanks Inc Tank and in tank pump.. With lines and Regulator add another 800 to 1000.

So, I was thinking of using the Dual Sync FAST distributor which is supposed to do both Crank and Cam signal and just make a funky cap for it.. Just a thought..

[redmist]

Anyone able to get a Tanks Inc tank yet for the 68-70 chargers?? Its said Coming Soon!! for a long time now.

[Derwud]

They said Sept last time I talked to them..