C500 question

[Kowal]

I read somewhere, and now I can't find the article, that early build C500's were given the '68 chrome shifter for an automatic with a console.   Versus the '69 fake wood grain.  True?   In particular for the early Hemi cars?   And that this is also for a reason similar to why many do not have headrests on the bucket seats which was that they were grabbed during the 68/69 model change over?

[kab69440]

I have heard that the tulip knobs were run out on early '69 cars and faux woodgrain used after the tulip knobs were expended. My 69 is #2459 and it had the faux woodgrain ball when  I got it. Of course, it also had a '70 uphdtery in it, so the shift knob could have been swapped out with the seats.

[moparstuart]

my car is not an early car it has the 68 knob and alot i have seen  of 500's have chrome 68 knobs and black 68 door handle pushes.    

[hemi68charger]

I read somewhere, and now I can't find the article, that early build C500's were given the '68 chrome shifter for an automatic with a console.   Versus the '69 fake wood grain.  True?   In particular for the early Hemi cars?   And that this is also for a reason similar to why many do not have headrests on the bucket seats which was that they were grabbed during the 68/69 model change over?

I personally have never heard of the 500's getting the '68 knobs, but then again the Daytonas got them and they were built afterwards. With that said, I wouldn't be completely surprised if some 500's did...

Danny? Any insight since you know about the 1st 2 built...

[moparstuart]

waynes car has chrome

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,51577.0.html

[moparstuart]

my car has it 



http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,49791.0.html

[Kowal]

The car in question is the B5 blue C500 that has been discussed here before.  It is the automatic that was on e-bay in the spring, the one with the girl in the ad in the way of seeing the car!  

It is in my garage as we speak, as a result of a deal that saw me give up my prized '69 1/2 Road Runner.    But how often can one pick up a Hemi car in as nice condition as this?   Stripmasters from Florida did a wonderful job on the restoration.

Back to the topic.   The car has the black buttons on the door handles, and had the silver shifter knob before restoration, it has the wood grained now.   The before pics show the wood grained console with the silver shifter.  

[Alaskan_TA]

And that this is also for a reason similar to why many do not have headrests on the bucket seats which was that they were grabbed during the 68/69 model change over?

The headrests were optional on cars made before Jan 1, 1969. See http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/TSBs/1969/D69-23-11%20page1.jpg

[69CoronetRT]

The chrome tulip knob was phased out about October so depending on the inventory on hand at the plant and production demands, you could see late '68 cars with chrome or wood knobs.

[nascarxx29]

Had this saved on the computer if this archive picture is accurate checkout the shift knobs left picture a 68 with woodgrain shifter knob. It also has the plastic combline instrument panel texture and center dash medallion between tach and speedo 1968 vintage Picture on right 69 vintage head rests and chrome knob

[69_500]

Well I have seen a ton of 500's that have the chrome shifter knobs. In all honesty I have seen very few with the wood knob. The blue Hemi 500 in question had a chrome knob on it before the restoration. I really do not know if I have seen any Hemi 500 AT cars with the wood knob other than restored cars.

[69_500]

For example take a look at the video in the other thread of the test drive of the Hemi 500. Black buttons on door handles as well as the chrome shifter knob. Just so you know this car is still wearing both of these items today.

[held1823]

are there any existing factory documents that prove or disprove the shift knob debate?

i know for an absolute fact that at least one 1969 charger, with a late april build date, came with the chrome knob. 

[Ghoste]

Had this saved on the computer if this archive picture is accurate checkout the shift knobs left picture a 68 with woodgrain shifter knob. It also has the plastic combline instrument panel texture and center dash medallion between tach and speedo 1968 vintage Picture on right 69 vintage head rests and chrome knob

I believe those pics have been well established as being a 68 that was done up with some 69 trim very early (pre-production) for photos to be used in the brochure and press release material.

[Ghoste]

are there any existing factory documents that prove or disprove the shift knob debate?

i know for an absolute fact that at least one 1969 charger, with a late april build date, came with the chrome knob. 

You can't leave us hanging though, what is the absolute fact?

[held1823]

are there any existing factory documents that prove or disprove the shift knob debate?

i know for an absolute fact that at least one 1969 charger, with a late april build date, came with the chrome knob.  

You can't leave us hanging though, what is the absolute fact?

the current owner is the original owner, and the chrome shift knob has never been off of the car.

does this constitute "absolute proof" for everyone? no; some people will not accept it as fact. is it absolute proof for me? beyond any doubt, as i know the both this particular car and its owner quite well.

the shift knob debate has surfaced here before. recalling those posts, it appears that numerous daytonas came with the chrome version, adding an interesting twist to reports that the chrome knob had been phased out, months before the cars were built.  

[69CoronetRT]

are there any existing factory documents that prove or disprove the shift knob debate?

i know for an absolute fact that at least one 1969 charger, with a late april build date, came with the chrome knob. 

The 69 parts book 21-30-6 and 21-30-10 give us some guidance. The January revision shows the wood knob under 21-30-6 but 21-30-10 is outdated copy. It indicates the black push button (on the wood knob) "will enter production approximately October 1968".

To me this indicates the black knob with the wooden ball came in approximately Oct of 1968. Did it actually make October production? If yes, then when In October? Early? Late Oct? Again, how much chrome inventory did each factory have on hand to get rid of? There is a transition period during the last 2 months of 68.

From what I've seen, most cars have wood only by January of 1969.

[RallyeMike]

For what its worth, my 500 is a Dec 4 car and has a wood knob.

My buddies 500 built Nov 20, currently with something like 50k original miles on it has a wood knob.

[Bob T]

Just an aside and not really relevant to the debate and mainly for the Aussie/Kiwi guys....when the plastic chrome coating is flaking off your tulip shifter, the one to find is off a Chrysler VC Valiant and its steel not plastic and looks exactly the same with the screw in piece but feels better too...got given one at Kumeu show this year and its mint as  

[held1823]

From what I've seen, most cars have wood only by January of 1969.

enter "chrome knob" in the search box, and you will find numerous threads that mention cars, built later in 1969, with the "unavailable" knob. while this is not a representation of "most cars", it could be debated that it applies to most daytonas. the parts book information can be a valuable resource, unless there is wide-spread evidence to refute a change-over date. that evidence exists, in this case.

i was the parts manager at two different dealerships (jeep/eagle, and c/p/d) from 1988 to 1991. while this was an entirely different era from 1969, i remember encountering the occasional error in the parts books/ microfiche. it is not far-fetched to believe the older books were just as capable of containing incorrect information, as it pertains to dates.

there are too many examples of chrome knobs in the later cars, for me to accept the parts book as being accurate. the daytona sitting here since september of 1969 was built april 27th., and has always had a chrome knob. this car is the one i mentioned earlier as my absolute proof that the parts book is wrong, as it pertains to this specific car. there is zero chance of a prior owner swapping out a wood knob, as there was no prior owner.

[Ghoste]

Agree fully on the parts books, I believe there is even a disclaimer in the front to that effect.  They still are an extremely important part of our research base.  Sifting through it all to arrive at a concensus or even undisputable fact is the fun part though.  Just have to be patient and keep wading through the info.

[69CoronetRT]

Agree fully on the parts books, I believe there is even a disclaimer in the front to that effect.  They still are an extremely important part of our research base.  Sifting through it all to arrive at a concensus or even undisputable fact is the fun part though.

Parts books are only one source but they are a source.

People want absolutes in a mass production/huge inventory situation and few exist. Most of the time you have to speak in generalities. "Most cars" were probably treated one way. That does not mean exceptions don't exist. However, exceptions do not negate general rules.

When did Hamtrack get wood knobs? STL? LA? LR? How many did they get? How many cars were built with console automatics during the transition? How many chrome knobs were already on hand? Were cases of chrome knobs covered up with new inventory and not found until later?

We will probably never know the answers to these question but what we do know is the wooden knob was introduced in late fall of 68 to replace the chrome knob. There was a transition period. Some plants probably transistioned quicker than others.

The best reference for what happened with your car is still your car. If you do not know exactly what happened with your car then you have to play the percentages as to what happened.

[C500]

I have a wooden knob, build date 14 Nov

[hemigeno]

I wouldn't make any absolute statements either way on the chrome vs. woodgrain shift knob, but here's my observation:

So far, every original and/or mostly-original Daytona I've looked at or heard about has had the chrome auto shift knob.  You'd think that with the Daytonas being built late in the model year run, the transition to woodgrain at Hamtramck would have occurred on by then - if it did at all.  Obviously, I haven't seen every untouched car nor can I trace the history of each of the cars I've seen back to when they were new... but so far that is what I've observed.  I've also seen some restored cars with the woodgrain knob, and I won't argue the point that there could have been some which originally came that way.  It's just my thought that the majority were probably chrome when new even on late '69 model year cars.

Given the choice between the two for installation back in a car, I'd go chrome.

[Kowal]

I wouldn't make any absolute statements either way on the chrome vs. woodgrain shift knob, but here's my observation:

Given the choice between the two for installation back in a car, I'd go chrome.

I just ordered the part!