Valve hydraulic lifters... UPDATE... SOMETHING IS WEIRD HERE

[Nacho-RT74]

As long as the plunger is in the same location on both lifters then the same pushrods will work. You need .020 lifter preload. As for the oil band....as long as it is not exposed at max lobe lift..... it will work fine.  

New lifters need to be broken in just like a new cam break-in.....20 minutes at 2000rpm with moly lube. I hope you didn't hurt the cam by skipping the break-in procedure  


Ron

I'm sure everything is fine about that Ron. I'm using 20/50 oil and EVERYTHING is full of oil and it has ZDDP. My mechanic has done it several times on its life without a failure. Myself have done it maybe twice and never have noticed a lobe failure. I can check the cam lobes now anyway that I have to replace again ( will go to get any replacement lifter available at local part stores ). I didn't remove intake thought, used a magnet.

There is somebody here what can tell the diff between BB and SB about the oil groove ? IF REALLY THERE IS A DIFFERENCE ?

BTW, got a response from topline guys:

Subject: RE: Topline Auto Contact Form Results ( two videos more )
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 06:47:27 -0700

Nacho,
We are thinking that you need our part number B-2011, not B-0976. Do you have any way to see the diffrence??
The oil band is a little wider on the 2011 & there is a very thin groove at the bottom of 2011 also that is not on the 976.

Does this make any sense?  
 

it could make sense, but where is the mistake then ? I mean. If they have listed the 976 like Mopar BB lifters, why is not working ? they were who sold me the 967s

Once again would be great to KNOW this:

There is somebody here what can tell the diff between BB and SB about the oil groove ? IF REALLY THERE IS A DIFFERENCE ?

I have a BB purple shaft set never used, to check their lifters, but they are not handy ( I have my stuff storaged in another place ).

[Nacho-RT74]

I don't get it... note this pics:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mopar-Performance/312/P3614321/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mopar-Performance/312/P4006767/10002/-1

IF THE PICS ARE THE RIGHT ONES, first one is listed SB second one is listed BB, searching by the first PNs I posted on the very first post

if so, WHY THE B-0976 are not working!!! the oil groove looks to be on same location!

is about the diff lift specs on the cam I'm using ? Is it maybe the Mopar BB ( and Johnson B-0976 ) lifters DON'T WORK on higher lifter applications ? Which lifters the Mopar Purple shafts gets on higher lift cams than stock ?

[Nacho-RT74]

Most current aftermarket hydraulic lifters will work on BB/SB Mopars and AMC's but the original style factory lifters won't...the problem is the location of the oil groove around the lifter. The groove is located higher on the SB lifter so, if the SB lifter is used in a BB, the oil groove will become exposed during maximum lift and dump the oil pressure into the valley.

by the JEGS PICS, looks to be opposite, as long as Mopar too providing those pics?... but it looks they are THE WRONG ones ( and by my recent experience you look to be totally right )

if so, the info is crossed... also to Johnsons/TopLine

[Nacho-RT74]

and TO ADD MORE CONFUSION:

Jegs on one of their listings, had for SB P3614321 lifter

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item484558d38d&item=310401094541&nma=true&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&rt=nc&si=dSVmOXKD1xaA98QGQyc9vRjFEGk%253D&vxp=mtr&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

WOW!

[Nacho-RT74]

and searching for more info...

what ROCKAUTO lists and shows  for SB ( of course 2011 )



what ROCKAUTO lists and shows for BB ( of course 976 )

[BSB67]

Ran these for years

[Nacho-RT74]

and that looks to be the 976s.

what cam it was?

[justcruisin]

I'm running the Johnson 0976 lifters in my 440 .350 lobe lift, runs sweet. Have also run lifters with the oil grove lower down with no issues. As long as the oil grove doesn't come out of the lifter bore you should be fine.

[Nacho-RT74]

really weird... my cam doesn't reach that lobe lift... whats the base circle on that cam ?

I just installed replacement Melling 2011 lifters I found locally, nothing fancy, simply stock replacements and they are running perfect. In 20 seconds or less I got a totally quiet engine

[FLG]

Maybe something different with the 400's?

[b5blue]

and TO ADD MORE CONFUSION:

Jegs on one of their listings, had for SB P3614321 lifter

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item484558d38d&item=310401094541&nma=true&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&rt=nc&si=dSVmOXKD1xaA98QGQyc9vRjFEGk%253D&vxp=mtr&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

WOW!

Never go by pics in adds, they get it wrong more then right!

[Nacho-RT74]

Maybe something different with the 400's?

if so, also maybe with 383s ?

[b5blue]

  My Mopar cam and lifters could be installed in 383, 400, 440. Same part# for all 3, My Mopar B/RB book calls this a "standard lifter" as opposed to "non standard lifter" used in six-pack engines with lower taper. The push rods differ.
  For adjustable rockers w hyd. cam it said set to 0 lash then tighten 1 1/2 to 2 turns. 

[Paul G]

My HLJ "L" series lifters are quieter at 1/2 to 3/4 turn past 0 lash. I finally left them at 1/2 turn. HLJ was good with that amount of pre load.

[Nacho-RT74]

L series ?

Topline auto are offering to send me 2011 lifters to replace the 976s they sent me at no cost, and asking me if I'll want Rs or standards. Honestly I don't know ( again ). I'm toward to standard. Really I would hate to get any lifter noise.

decissions decissions decissions...

[b5blue]

Standard.

[Paul G]

L series ?

Topline auto are offering to send me 2011 lifters to replace the 976s they sent me at no cost, and asking me if I'll want Rs or standards. Honestly I don't know ( again ). I'm toward to standard. Really I would hate to get any lifter noise.

decissions decissions decissions...

It is the "R" series, not "L". I have B-2011R lifters in my 360. Sorry for the confusion. If you want a quiet engine dont get the "R" lifters.

[Nacho-RT74]

I don't care a small ammount of noise, as far is not noticeable from inside the cab or with closed hood, just with open hood, specially if I win performance getting Rs

but if they are noticeable driving around I wouldn't like that.

[Paul G]

Why are you even considering the R lifters anyway?

[Nacho-RT74]

being I won't be paying this set, topline sales crew is giving me the option of any of them to fix "their mistake" ( what "per catalog" dunno actually who is guilty really, althought I gave my engine specs before they offer me the 976s )... and if I win something in performance getting one or the other of them at "same cost", is something what makes you --->

[Paul G]

I can only hear the noisy lifters with the hood up. They could be noticably louder if not for the headers, open air cleaner, and turbo mufflers. My car is kind of loud anyway.

[Nacho-RT74]

standards 2011 from HLJ are on the way.

BTW, I just went to check the lifters included with the MP 280/474 purple shaft kit, and they look EXACTLY THE SAME OIL GROOVE than the 976s I got. Soooo,

Were they to work on my assembly or not?

Maybe the base circle on MP cam is smaller than the Crower, so the total lift never was to affect to the lifter leaving the bore ?

if so... what about If I never have gotten the adjustable valve train ? is the base circle so diff between both ? how it was to work on a stock rockers assembly ?

Of course, this is IF the reason why the lifter were making the noise was because they were dumping out the oil at max lift because grooves were leaving the bore.

and doubts are still around

[FLG]

At least they stood by their product 

[b5blue]

Per my Mopar B/RB book the highest point on ANY cam's lobe is always set buy smallest cam bearing inner size so it can still be installed. The change in lift on different cam's spec. is all from varying the base diameter.   

[Nacho-RT74]

sounds logical, however still wondering how a smaller base circle making a bigger lobe will raise the same height to the valve, if lifter remains the same and rockers are not adjustable. Dunno if you got what I mean.

( I'd say the SECOND smaller bearing size, because the smaller is on the last and there is not lobes going through )