Which would you rather have (440 auto or 383 four speed)

[Ghoste]

Because more people wanted them when they were buying them new.  Interestingly, the automatic was a no charge feature in the RT but you had to pay more for it in the 383 base Charger.  I wonder how much rarer the four speed would be if the auto could have been had as standard fare in the XP as well?

[GPULLER]

383 4spd, the B motor would make a good 500 inch stroker. 

[bakerhillpins]

I suspect that some of the reason was that (IIRC) the Charger wasn't an entry level car and as a result the demographic of the buyers favored the autos. I.e. old pharts not wanting to have to deal with the gears all day long.  I also suspect that an automatic trans was a bit of the "latest tech" that everyone wanted to have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_transmission

Originally invented by Michael Felix Picone during World War II, so the tank operator had his left foot available to fire 50mm shells from the cross hairs of his tank periscope. The first vehicle to have this technology was a custom-made limousine designed by Michael Felix Picone for General Douglas MacArthur as a gift. The limousine was fabricated from 3 Cadillac sedans. There was no patent ever asked for, because the purpose for the automatic transmission was to help win the war. Also, the original design did not include the parking feature, it only included the automatic gearbox.

Anyhow, I still haven't made up my mind yet. I have always preferred manual transmissions, but I don't sit in traffic jams nor do the clutches of today require a lot of effort. I have never driven an A833 equipped car, if it's anything like my old 76 CJ5 3spd then I suspect I don't want to deal with that over the long haul. It was a workout for me back then and now it probably would kill me. However, I just can't break away from wanting a 4spd Charger.... someday.  

[Ghoste]

So would you consider the Road Runner to be more of an entry level car?  Because with only a couple of exceptions the transmission breakdown figures there don't bear the "old fart" theory out.

http://beep2beep.tripod.com/Roadrunner_Production-Figures.html

Perhaps the Dart is more of an entry level car?

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8el3i/id18.html

The facts seem to indicate that even "back in the day" more people preferred the automatic even when it was an option they had to select and pay for.

[bakerhillpins]

So would you consider the Road Runner to be more of an entry level car?

Yes, well at least that's the way the Dodge/Plymouth lineup was described to me anyhow and I have adopted that as factual. I guess it would be interesting to know if the % of 4spds in the RR was higher or lower.

[bakerhillpins]

So would you consider the Road Runner to be more of an entry level car?  Because with only a couple of exceptions the transmission breakdown figures there don't bear the "old fart" theory out.

http://beep2beep.tripod.com/Roadrunner_Production-Figures.html

Perhaps the Dart is more of an entry level car?

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8el3i/id18.html

The facts seem to indicate that even "back in the day" more people preferred the automatic even when it was an option they had to select and pay for.

Ha.. there you go. Looks like I just missed your edit by a few. 

So maybe the "Lastest Tech" argument is more of the truth. 

[Ghoste]

I don't know.  Is it even a fair argument to think about them when they were new?  I would say we are a harder core group of enthusiasts today than when these cars were available new.  No way to prove it but my opinion would be that a lot of people bought Road Runners (for example) in 1969 because it was cool.  How many of them really wanted to race?  No matter what we are led to believe in the rosy afterglow of hindsight.  How many parents co-signed the loan only if it were an automatic?  How many dealers pushed automatics to get rid of potential warranty headaches?  How many ordered auto with an eye to resale value? (then again, if automatics added to resale value wouldn't that be an indicator that most people want them?)

At the end of the day this is all just for fun because it's too cold to go Chargering right now.

[bakerhillpins]

How many dealers pushed automatics to get rid of potential warranty headaches? 

Or because the commission was bigger? 

At the end of the day this is all just for fun because it's too cold to go Chargering right now.

Here, here!!! 

[Troy]

I believe that the Mopar automatic is generally faster at the drag strip so those wanting to race might not have picked the 4-speed any way. My dad liked back roads so he preferred a stick.  Chargers were probably priced a bit high and weighed a bit much to be chosen as a pure drag car. I think the percentage of 4-speeds in 383 Roadrunners and Super Bees is probably higher due to the reduced driveline friction and needing to get everything out of the slightly smaller motor.

You can look at the overall numbers by demographic/model and see who chose the 4-speed. Base model cars with small blocks or six cylinders are almost exclusively automatics. For Chargers, the 383 was just another base model with more power - a great family/highway cruising car! There were a greater percentage of stick shift cars but still not many. The 4-speed numbers had a big increase overall at the R/T level. Hemi cars were nearly split I believe (depends on year).

Troy

[Budnicks]

  383 4bbl 4 speed cars are more fun to drive, than a 440 4bbl auto, but a quality built auto with the correct parts, works way better for racing, unless you are very proficient driver, you can always add cubic inches stroker any one... I like the 383 4bbl 4spd combo it works very well, on the street cruising, most of my cars lately have autos though, 4sd cars are far & few on the market or command to much money for a driver type car these days, back in the day I only had 4spds, I've mellowed in my thinking now any great muscle car auto or stick is great with the right parts, but I'm not a real purist either...

[404NOTFOUND]

I wonder if it might have had more to do with lot cars vs ordered cars. There have always been people who can't drive standard or don't want to so, perhaps the dealers would mostly stock automatics which could be sold to anyone while leaving most of the standards to special orders for those who had to have them. Personally, I like to drag race so, the auto is a must.

[Dans 68]

This is not a scientific observation by any means, but out of "20" 1968 Charger 383 4-barrel 4-speed fender tags (that I have photos of), "17" were ordered cars. So 15% of these cars were built for no particular customer. 

Dan

[F8-4life]

4-speed anyday. Although some days I probably wouldn't want to drive it haha

[mauve66]

383 4spd, the B motor would make a good 500 inch stroker. 

the 440 will make a 540 stroker.......................

[bull]

This is not a scientific observation by any means, but out of "20" 1968 Charger 383 4-barrel 4-speed fender tags (that I have photos of), "17" were ordered cars. So 15% of these cars were built for no particular customer.  

Dan

But then it's been said here that the dealers were prone to faking orders to get cars shipped quicker. Chrysler allegedly filled special orders faster than they did normal stock, and when the demand for Chargers went up by 500% in 68 they started phonying the paperwork to keep up with demand. That's what I've heard anyway. Not sure how true it is. And if that's the case it doesn't explain why dealers would have ordered them this way. Maybe just to be a little different?

[Budnicks]

383 4spd, the B motor would make a good 500 inch stroker. 

the 440 will make a 540 stroker.......................

you can get up to around 525ci with 0.060" over/4.31" bore & a 4.5" crank in a 383 block... I don't think the 15ci's are going to make a really big difference, & I'm sure you already know a 400 block can get even 547ci at 0.060" over 4.40" bore & 4.5" crank, slightly more even than the 440 with a 4.5" crank & 0.060" over bore.... Now 22ci's is a little bigger difference... I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with a good low deck block either....

[404NOTFOUND]

They still build and ship ordered cars faster and the dealers have ways of speeding orders even more. When the new Challenger was at it's peak of demand, most customers were waiting many months or longer to have their car shipped. I was in my dealer's office when he phoned the factory. He told them my ordered Challenger R/T was a priority. My car landed at the dealer in less than a month.

[472 R/T SE]

Somebody was ordering them.  Otherwise we would of had a staggering amount of 3 speeds since that was the standard tranny in I think pretty much all rides.

[Cooter]

383 4spd, the B motor would make a good 500 inch stroker.  

the 440 will make a 540 stroker.......................

you can get up to around 525ci with 0.060" over/4.31" bore & a 4.5" crank in a 383 block... I don't think the 15ci's are going to make a really big difference, & I'm sure you already know a 400 block can get even 547ci at 0.060" over 4.40" bore & 4.5" crank, slightly more even than the 440 with a 4.5" crank & 0.060" over bore.... Now 22ci's is a little bigger difference... I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with a good low deck block either....

I'm of the opinion that the taller block will always have a better rod to piston ratio when dealing with stupidly sized strokers. a 540 C.I. low deck can't live for very long with that short deck height. Just because all that sh*t fit into the stock block and will rotate by hand doesn't mean it'll do it @6500 RPM reliably. My .02.

[Ghoste]

Somebody was ordering them.  Otherwise we would of had a staggering amount of 3 speeds since that was the standard tranny in I think pretty much all rides.

Was the 3 speed standard in any of the big block Chargers prior to 1970 though?

[resq302]

Pretty sure that the 3 spd was standard and you could have gotten a no charge upgrade of the auto in some cases.  Ill have to dig out my 69 Dodge Dealer pocket price guide to double check though.

[Ghoste]

I thought it was only with the slant six and 318 in 68 and 69 and that the 383 was four or auto but a while since I read the data guide myself.

[six-tee-nine]

4 speed for me.....

I initially wanted a 4 speed Charger but they're not too common. Now I'll just build my resto mod with a 4 speed The way I want it.
If I had to choose and the 2 cars being equal in pricing etc the 4 speed would be my choice.

[RECHRGD]

The torqueflight transmission had a reputation of being a high performing, bulletproof unit and the 4 speed did not enjoy the same fate.  It was considered to be slow shifting and clumsy when compared to the brand X counterparts of the day.  Everyone knew that the automatic was generally quicker down the 1/4 mile and I'm sure that had a lot to do with the majority of these cars being ordered with the auto.  I know it did when I ordered my '68 R/T.  In those days everyone knew how to drive a "stick shift" car and many people preferred them, as many of the early automatics left much to be desired.  But, the Chrysler Torqueflight changed a lot of peoples minds.  I'd be willing to bet that the percentage of 4 speeds ordered in
chevelles, camaros and mustangs was higher than in any of the Mopars....

[RiverRaider]

Four speed for me.