There were four DMCL cars.

[Mike DC]

                          
The presence of a front swaybar doesn't indicate either way.  Front swaybars were stock on all Chargers in the DMCL model years, R/T or not.  I'm not sure about the slant-6 Chargers but all the 318s definitely got them in '68 and '69.  For 1970 I think they actually offered to remove the swaybar as part of a "soft ride package" or something like that.


BTW - One of the primary General Lee drivers from "Dukes" told me that he preferred the front swaybar be removed from their Chargers.  It would make the car slower according to a stopwatch, but it would help it oversteer more dramatically.  Looks are more important than technical speed in Hollywood chase scenes.

[Ghoste]

I wouldn't put too much into the headrests or the base steering wheel either.  Mopars were pretty open on the option sheet and there are lots of RT's out there with no headrests and base steering wheels.  It's one of the cool things about Mopars that so many of them were ordered in so many unexpected (read personalized) ways.

[nvrbdn]

well as far as the headrest thing, it seemed to me that the headrests were removed for filming. at least in 1 car anyway. there are shots from the drivers side showing mary in the passenger side that had the mounting holes for a head rest. then from the back seat from deke looking forward there are mounting holes in the drivers seat. now of course as stated, those scenes could have been shot from any of the three cars.

[Ghoste]

Yes.  Also worth noting that most of the interior shots were a car with ac.  The number of speaker grilles in the dash will change aorund abit as well.

[model maker]

My 318 R/T badged car DID have headrests, I found them in the trunk & I reinstalled them after i got the car. the seats had the holes with chrome holes inside the openings. the chrome trim had black something on them, shoepolish or some kind of water based paint that rubbed off easily.

[jwramc]

OK, woah...that changes EVERYTHING. Because in the film we see three configurations, or three cars:

1- An R/T-badged '69 with NO headrest mounts, standard steering wheel.
2- A likely SE (No Charger emblems on C-pillars) '69 WITH headrest mounts, standard steering wheel.
3- An R/T-badged '68, interior details never seen.

Now, for your (Bert's) car to have headrests... we need some kind of reasonable explanation. Here are some options:
1- There's a fourth Charger in this film that I haven't yet been able to distinguish from the other three (I strongly doubt this as the director specifies only three were used).
2- Bert's car was a fan-made clone sold to him with a good BS story (Bert- can you go over again how you first found, then bought the car?).
3- Bert's car received the SE car's seats before being sold. This would suggest the crew uninstalled the SE's seats before the train crash for some reason...and installed them in the RT car (which already had a good interior) for some unknown reason.

Bert- I could keep guessing, but need your answer to the above before I can try to make this all gel together. Those headrests in your car are a HUGE monkey wrench in the gears! Did you ever take photos of the car BEFORE fixing the body? If so, still got them?

[jwramc]

well as far as the headrest thing, it seemed to me that the headrests were removed for filming. at least in 1 car anyway. there are shots from the drivers side showing mary in the passenger side that had the mounting holes for a head rest. then from the back seat from deke looking forward there are mounting holes in the drivers seat. now of course as stated, those scenes could have been shot from any of the three cars.

Yes.  Also worth noting that most of the interior shots were a car with ac.  The number of speaker grilles in the dash will change aorund abit as well.

(This reply was typed up before Bert's last note about the headrests)

Both the faux RT and the likely SE were AC cars. The fastest way to spot which car interior we're in is either the wiper frames (black is the RT, silver is the SE) or the tops of the front seat (silver headrest mounts are the SE, no mounts is the RT). Another way (usually shots of Deke alone in the back) is the oblong factory sticker on the quarter glass. If it's about an inch from the bottom, centered on the glass- that's the RT. If it's pushed way back into the rear corner, that's the SE.

It's interesting that these two cars seemed to swap jobs at some point in the filming. I've been trying to form a logical chain of events, like what scene is filmed before what other scene, to figure out the reason for the swap (the interceptor chase is cut together from scenes filmed in a very different order). Generally, the bulk of the interior shots of the actors are in the SE while the exteriors tend to be the RT (often with the SE driving alongside with cameras mounted on it- check the reflection in the RT's door mirror). But for about 1/3 of the Charger's half of the film, we see the SE from outside, and the cast is in the RT. As for the 68, that car is used only for exteriors, and just a couple of those (clearly they knew it was risky to show it TOO often, too close due it's differences).

Something must have occurred (perhaps several things at different times, and they swapped back and forth several times) to force the swap(s). I think some of it may have been maintenance/collision repairs affect availability day-to-day, but also the need to be in two places at one, filming different scenes with two separate camera crews. As a ficticious example, the RT could be with cast sitting at the flea market filming interior shots ("look what I got you!") while the SE was carrying a camera alongside the '68 on the dirt siding, approaching the 'good sailor' bump and dunk chase (this particular example is unlikely as the two locations are VERY far apart- easy 40 minute ride which spreads them out too much to react for and assist each other if needed).

Certain shots are obvious about where they belong in real-time sequence. The very first shot of the SE at the flea market is a very late shot, as the air dam and grille/hood misalignment shows. The RT pulling away from the same spot minutes later is one of the car's first uses as it is extremely straight and clean. The 'dirt tracking scene' during the interceptor chase was filmed before most of the rest of that chase because after it and for a while before it, the left quarter panel is punched inward...but entering the dirt road, the quarter is undamaged.

The shot of the brake pedal just before that quarter gets squashed... well, that's a later shot, probably of a crewmember wearing Larry's pants and shoes, sitting in the '59 El Camino workhorse. The director likely had a last minute though to get that shot but the Chargers were unavailable... perhaps already wrecked and junked (SE and 68) or sold (RT).

My working theory is something like this: The faux RT simply was the better looking car externally, thanks to the RT badging and clean body (especially the grille area). The SE had the cleanest interior (keep that cast happy) and not having the best grille and no RT badges, was intended to avoid close-ups or lingering exterior shots. But the RT was also the dominant stunt car, most often doing the high-speed, hairy stuff.

All this complicated back and forth is the norm even for big-budget films...even more confusing. I've always found it insulting when a movie about actors and movie-making will show an extended scene being shot- even a car chase, and we're shown it as if the whole chase is filmed by a zillion cameras mounted all over the city and it's all in one take. Bullitt's chase would have been about an hour long and utterly boring if this were the case, because what we are shown as being a continuous chase in a continuous chain of nearby locations was actually filmed all over the place, jumping miles each time the cars made a turn. It's as if they turned left at the Empire State building in New York and were then shown stopping in front of Wrigley Field a moment later. DMCL did the very same thing.

If you have and use Google Earth, you can import the attached file to give you my list of known locations, in the order they appear in the film.

[404NOTFOUND]

Those oblong stickers on the quarter windows were the "AirTemp" decals found on air conditioned cars. My car had them as well. They were installed pretty much anywhere along the bottom of the window.

[Ghoste]

I'm still not buying that one was an SE just yet.  If we agree that only one 69 had headrests then Berts car was that one.  I am thoroughly convinced of the legitimacy that Berts car was used on the film.  I won't detail it here but if you read his thread on how he got it, that is good enough for me.  FWIW, I have privately communicated with him several times since he first came on here and based on those converations I'm sold.
So to determine if it was an SE, we need to ask Bert, did it have a woodgrain dash, pedal dress up trim and leather inserts in the seats?

[Troy]

ithink the rt is a 440 4  speed car In the scene after he crashes into the truck, and they fix the front tire, When he peels out and runs over his own tire, look at the ass end of the car and you'll see the dana 60. 

There was no '69 R/T. Only a base model 318 car wearing R/T badges. It's likely none of the 3 cars had a 440... except on the stripes.

318 cars do not come with  front sway bar

the pic of rt  has a  front sway bar   383 and440 cars come with  front sway bar 

I'm late to this but, yeah, 69 Chargers with a 318 *did* have sway bars.

Troy

[jwramc]

I'm still not buying that one was an SE just yet.  If we agree that only one 69 had headrests then Berts car was that one.  I am thoroughly convinced of the legitimacy that Berts car was used on the film.  I won't detail it here but if you read his thread on how he got it, that is good enough for me.  FWIW, I have privately communicated with him several times since he first came on here and based on those converations I'm sold.
So to determine if it was an SE, we need to ask Bert, did it have a woodgrain dash, pedal dress up trim and leather inserts in the seats?

I'm calling the one car an SE only as I refer to the other 69 as an RT...to have a short-sweet way to indicate which car I mean. I can accept it's a base model minus the C-pillar emblems...just haven't 'made that call' yet.

As for the headrests, no- the film clearly shows the "possible SE" had headrests removed while the "faux RT" had no provisions for them, thus never had them.
Now, could Bert's car be the SE from the film, rebadged as an RT after filming concluded? No- the SE is clearly shown destroyed against the train. His car certainly isn't the '68 either. That leaves the RT we see in the film that had no headrests.

For him to have that car AND have headrests (and there's no other owner for that car between the film crew and Bert) means the crew had to swap the front seats from the SE before destroying that car... which just seems to have no point behind it.

Again, the 4th car option remains, but I'm going to need something BIG to go in that direction and discount every anecdote the director and crew guys have offered.

Perhaps Bert will recall something about how he got it that helps indicate how this discrepancy occurs.

The plot thickens!! 

[kikgas01]

What is weird(not that it matters) is my 68 Satellite sold car had a 383 2 bbl, power windows, a/c, bumper guards cloth inserts in the seats, woodgrain wheel, head rests,light package and so on but no sway bar but we added one. It was also a sold car. A banker car or something? It wasn`t even a Sport Satellite but a Satellite.

[kikgas01]

Wish I had it back. It had 68,000 miles when I sold it.

[jwramc]

Forgive my asking if these are "Must be a Ford guy" questions...

1- What's a 'sold car'?...other than a car you had, now sold. Do you mean ordered thru the dealer...so that it's 'sold' before it's even built?

2- I assume your build sheet indicates the car never had a sway bar? Not that it just went AWOL sometime after being built?

I agree it's odd for a well-optioned car like that would specifically deleted the sway bar. A stripper intended to drag race, sure...but an old fart's driver??

[Ghoste]

Yes, sold car means ordered at the dealer level and not something pulled from the larger Chrysler sales bank or a sales bank unit that was pushed onto the dealer to maintain inventory committments. 

[Troy]

Forgive my asking if these are "Must be a Ford guy" questions...

1- What's a 'sold car'?...other than a car you had, now sold. Do you mean ordered thru the dealer...so that it's 'sold' before it's even built?

2- I assume your build sheet indicates the car never had a sway bar? Not that it just went AWOL sometime after being built?

I agree it's odd for a well-optioned car like that would specifically deleted the sway bar. A stripper intended to drag race, sure...but an old fart's driver??

Sold means it was ordered that way.

As for the sway bar, you can ignore any correlation between a Charger and a Satellite on that one. A 318 Charger had the bar - the 318 Satellite did not. Nothing special in that department. Until 1970, all Chargers were "premium" priced cars and, by default, had options that lower priced models did not (padded upper doors for example).

Also, a 68 Charger most likely did NOT have headrests. The were mandatory in the middle of the 69 model year but optional before that. Of my seven 68 Chargers I have only had one with headrests. I haven't seen too many 69s without them (but I'm partial to 68s and do not have every 69 that I've seen memorized). So, it's likely that two of the movie cars had headrests - but also possible that none had them.

Troy

[Ghoste]

For sure at least one did.  Several interior scenes clearly show the empty bezels on top of the seats.

[Troy]

For sure at least one did.  Several interior scenes clearly show the empty bezels on top of the seats.

Right. Just pointing out that the 68 probably never had them and the 69s may or may not have had them so the movie guys were probably aiming for some sort of consistency.

And/or they didn't want them in the way for interior shots. However, it's easier to remove them from the cars that had them than to add them to the cars that didn't.

Troy

[model maker]

My seats had the blacked out holes in each seat &  i remember  the metal starting to show when i dropped the headrests in. I had A/C and it worked good. the headrests i found in the trunk in a plastic bag. I had the A/C decal on the right rear window as well. 1 thing i do remember is the drivers seat would get stuck all the way back if you slid it back too far and it took a lot of trouble to slide it forward again so i made sure if a mechanic got in it that they did not slide the seat back because i couldn't drive it like that. My trunk lid was off when the car was picked up and there were rail mounts inside the trunk floor. I reconized those as camera cam loc rails used on camera cars, the same ones we used at Quinn martin productions out on location.

[404NOTFOUND]

My early '69 car (December '68 build), did not come with headrests and it also has the small bumperettes. Berts R/Tish car also had small bumperettes indicating an early car which may not have had headrests. The "SE" in the film had large bumperettes indicating a late car meaning headrests were likely mandatory.

[Brock Lee]

Seats could have been swapped as well. All it takes is a seat getting torn in filming, so a good set was swapped in before its host car was destroyed. You can bet parts were swapped all around between these cars through filming as needed.

Page 43 of the 1969 Dodge Data book. I have a version that lists the date "January 1, 1969" as the date headrests become standard.

I suspect most dealers started ordering cars for the lot with the headrests so the inventory would not loo "stale" after the year rolled over. People ordering likely wanted there cars to be very up to date and new, so few went with non-headrests. They do exist, but are rather uncommon.

[kikgas01]

That is why I posted a fender tag and broadcast sheet. Troy, I didn`t know that about Satellites verses Chargers.

[Troy]

That is why I posted a fender tag and broadcast sheet. Troy, I didn`t know that about Satellites verses Chargers.

Yep, I have the front clip from a base model Coronet and it's missing the sway bar as well. A Coronet R/T or Plymouth GTX would have had a sway bar but I don't know which lesser models would have gotten them automatically. I'm not sure any 68-69 Charger came without one (possibly slant six cars?). After that my knowledge gets real fuzzy.

Troy

[Brock Lee]

From what I have seen, sway bars were standard equipment on Chargers, at least in 1968-9. Charger was like its own line and gave many deluxe options standard, lie the sway bars, rally dash, bucket seats, padded upper doors, etc. 1970 was the year that changed and they offered more stripped down models.

[Mike DC]

  
The Mopar front suspension layout also made the baseline front roll resistance lighter than most cars.  The torsion bars were pressing upwards on the chassis pretty far in towards the centerline of the car.  The design benefited from a front swaybar more than most GM/Ford cars of the era, which typically had front coils anchored farther out at the sides of the engine bay.  It's no wonder Chrysler was so quick to install front swaybars on anything moderately sporty.