4 speed 69 RT/SE WIW?

[spoolinhard]

I know, not "another whats it worth thread". For starters I do not have pics of this car. It belongs to my dads buddy who has owned it for years, we can't get ahold of him at the moment so we think that he might be deployed (in the military).

The car is a B5 blue rt/se with a white interior, black vinyl top and black rump stripe. It is a complete car (and completely assembled) , although the 440 was replaced by a 400. The car has had a pistol grip installed in it. The 18 spline (unknown if original) is in the car along with the dana, I also believe car also has bendix 4 piston calipers. The interior is typical of something that has been laying in a field for 20 years, although it is complete. The body is decent. It has had a slight bump in the drivers fender. The fender is toast, the grill is a little crunched up, and the bumper is also toast. It comes with another drivers fender.
There is rust all the way around the back window. I think that there may be a little around the windshield. The rockers doors and pass fender are all useable. They have the typical dents/dings of something that has never seen a restoration, meaning that suprises are possible. The lower quarters have rust, it has been so long since I have seen the car that  I am unsure if they need replaced or not. So lets say that they need replaced. The carpet is still in it, the floors look solid from underneath but there is no telling once the carpet is out. I would imagine that the trunk is shot. The frames are all nice.

I am unsure of what state all the interior pieces are in, other than they are all there, the 4 speed console and all. basically the best way to describe this car is ridden hard and put away wet. Other than the fact that it is a 4 speed rt/se and that it is complete with all the rare pieces, there is nothing remarkable about the condition of this car.

This car has never been for sale, but my dad seems to think that the last time he talked to the guy that it had a price on it. We have been trying to get ahold of the guy on and off for the past 7 months or so. I am not going to quit bothering the guy until we get ahold of him, even if the car isnt for sale, I intend to be persistent.

Based on the details that I gave, what do you think that the fair market value of this car is? I know that its valuable, but I think that it could be more valuable than I think.

[charger_fan_4ever]

East coast car ? Sitting outside for 20 years ?

east coast or not water must have soaked the carpet if its been outside, so figure on floor gone. Debris stuck in the cowl drains, so cowl probably stayed wet and is rotten too. Vinyl top car if its still been 1/2 on for all the years out in the weather plan on rotten drip rails and needing a roof skin.  

I'll say $3-5K

If you do all the work yourselves and just buy parts,material  figure on it costing minimum $20k. That is with buying quality AMD metal,$4k interior,$2500 motor,drivetrain$$,Suspension$$,brakes$$

You could buy sheetmetal and gallons of bondo and patch on it for a year, but 1 pinhole somewhere and a lil moisture and you'll have to go back in for restore #2 $$$$$


If you farm out the restoration figure on easily $50k

I'm doing a 70 RT now and the unibody,frame rails were nice. Needed pretty much all new metal. I have $9k in receipts for AMD metal and rust free 70 front clip.. I'm ordering interior in Feb another $3500. No motor yet.It adds up, but you know what you have in the end.

[spoolinhard]

Car is in the rustbelt. I should have clarified that it has been moved to indoor storage for the past 7-8 years. Before that it sat in a field. It has been off the road for alot longer than that, away from the salt. I am not contesting the cowl being plugged and rotted. Not necessarily contesting anything else you have said, that is all a possibility. I do know that the price he "supposedly put on the car was $6,500. This was about 7-8 years ago, about the time that the car went indoors.  I should have said that the car is in an unaltered state. While rough, it is wearing the original paint, top, interior and stripes, so unlikely of any hidden bondo treasures.

The time this car sat outside, it was in plain view of a nearby highway. Everyone and their dog has stopped and asked about this car. Never for sale, the owner is going to "fix it up". The last time I saw the car was when it got put indoors. It was then that I really looked the car over. While I was doing this my dad was talking to the guy. It was then that apparently that the guy put a price on it according to my dad. He said that someone else inquired about the car and he told the prospective buyer 6,500. The buyer said that was too much. Also figure in that this is in EXTREMELY rural country far away from any major city with a large population. Probably not alot of people who would be willing to pay what its worth.

While I was looking the car over, I could hear my dad putting a really bad guilt trip on the guy, trying to get him to do something with the car. He told him that it was rusting into the ground. The guy felt bad at this and looked down and quietly said "its not that bad." The guy has no means of doing anything with the car. The time the car was sitting outside, it was sitting at someone's place awaiting brake work. The car was running and driving then. Since no parts were available for the bendix units, it sat making it a yard ornament and pretty much turning it into another old car.

Neither my dad or I have ever attempted to ask about the car since it has never been for sale, so I haven't even thought about it. My dad only waited about 8 years to tell me of this "supposed" price on it. My dad sometimes doesn't reconstruct past events too well!

[spoolinhard]

also, I know what you mean by knowing what you've got in the end. I would prefer to buy something unrestored and rusty than restored, you never know what under that paint. I do all my own work other than machining.

[TUFCAT]

We need pictures! 

[charger_fan_4ever]

Hard to say without seeing it. If they were driven in the winter by probably by 1975-6 the body would have been toast if it was never oiled. Like cars now in the rust belt. Drive them for 5 years with no oil and rockers are gone, 1/4 lips ect.

My 70 had been inside for the last 10 years, but the damage was already done from those first 10-15 years of neglect.

Does it still have a fender tag ?

$6500 depends how bad you want it and what shape it really is when you see it. Go over it with a fine tooth comb. A rust belt car check the door hinge pilars. Mine were toast had to change them. The weather really killed these cars.

Up here in quebec I'd have probably bought at that price cause everyone is on crack and think a rust bucket R/T or not is woth $10k plus for field cars. In the US you have far more "supply" of projects.

Check out the link in my thread about a rusty 70 FC7 4 speed car. Guy started out at $8.5K no motor. Needs it all including rear rails.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,88182.0.html

[spoolinhard]

We need pictures! 

My only access to pictures would be breaking into the guys shed to take them! We drove over there one weekend and it appeared that he hadn't been there in some time, which leads me to believe that he has been deployed. Our new approach has been to try and track someone down that knows him and can give us some info or a cell number. I assure that when this is done I will have pics. Although we have been attempting to make contact on a weekly basis, I have no idea how long this process will take! Honest!

[spoolinhard]

Hard to say without seeing it. If they were driven in the winter by probably by 1975-6 the body would have been toast if it was never oiled. Like cars now in the rust belt. Drive them for 5 years with no oil and rockers are gone, 1/4 lips ect.

My 70 had been inside for the last 10 years, but the damage was already done from those first 10-15 years of neglect.

Does it still have a fender tag ?

$6500 depends how bad you want it and what shape it really is when you see it. Go over it with a fine tooth comb. A rust belt car check the door hinge pilars. Mine were toast had to change them. The weather really killed these cars.

Up here in quebec I'd have probably bought at that price cause everyone is on crack and think a rust bucket R/T or not is woth $10k plus for field cars. In the US you have far more "supply" of projects.

Check out the link in my thread about a rusty 70 FC7 4 speed car. Guy started out at $8.5K no motor. Needs it all including rear rails.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,88182.0.html

As a bodyman, I looked the car over with a fine tooth comb, I do know that it was in much better condition than the car in your thread. I don't recall seeing any rust on the doors, fenders, hood, trunk.  I did look under the car, the rails where very clean.
Fender tag is there. I wouldn't doubt there is a broadcast sheet somewhere there in the interior as it has never really been wrenched on or taken apart.

[tan top]

We need pictures! 

 

[TUFCAT]

I'm cool with all that....but only an eyeball can determine the WIW of a 40+ year old car.

If restorable and purchased for the right price this can yield a very rare 4-speed Charger with cool options and color combo!

The options and colors bring money!  So far you have both. Good luck.

[spoolinhard]

I'm cool with all that....but only an eyeball can determine the WIW of a 40+ year old car.

If restorable and purchased for the right price this can yield a very rare 4-speed Charger with cool options and color combo!

The options and colors bring money!  So far you have both. Good luck.

Well, there is not a doubt in my mind that it is restorable. I wish that I had pictures to help but a ball park figure is what I am hoping for. I don't expect an exact whats it worth without having actually seen it. As a metal worker and restorer I am just giving the most accurate description that I can.

[PocketThunder]

For $6500 that covers what you can sell the described parts for alone if the rest of the car is junk.   

[TUFCAT]

Just thinking.... since you're a bodyman and can do most of the work yourself the supposed price of $6500 (even considering the ravages of time) might still be an excellent buy. On the other hand, a normal guy like me could get underwater fast if I had to write checks to somebody like you to finish it.

It all depends on condition. Considering the AMD sheet metal availability  under the right circumstances this car can be turned into gold.  

[DixieRestoParts]

4-spd 69 RT/SE cars are pretty rare. If it has disc brakes, it could be a super trak pak car which is even more valuable. Like the others have said, the condition of the body, options, and missing parts impact the value. Does the current owner have any history on the car? Does he know where the original engine is? All questions worth asking. I was able to talk to both the original owners of my cars and found out some pretty cool history on them, even though neither had pictures of them back in the day. 

Based on what you have said about the car, $6500 may be on the high side, but probably worth buying if you really want a RT/SE 4-spd car and are willing to do a ton of work to restore/restify it. I don't see many of them for sale very often. Market value fluctuates as we all know, so you could be upside down even if you do all the body work yourself. I'm just saying it could happen.  In my opinion, once a car is done, it's smiles per mile that really count. 

[spoolinhard]

I would say that the car compareable but more solid than this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Charger-RT-SE-440-Restorable-RARE-One-Owner-BARN-FIND-All-Original-440-ci-1969-Dodge-Charger-/140686092414?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item20c18b687e


I doubt the seller knows much of the history, I just think he picked it up back when they were cheap. I also think that the original engine is long gone.
By pure coincidence, we do know of one of the previous owners, so some line of history could be established.

[DixieRestoParts]

Is a Blue 4-spd worth more than a Green automatic? Shoot yeah! So, you have part of your answer there, if the bidding on this car is real. 

[spoolinhard]

Final bid was 6,800. I thought that the buy it now was a fantasy. I think I do have my answer now!

[XS29LA47V21]

Is a Blue 4-spd worth more than a Green automatic? Shoot yeah! So, you have part of your answer there, if the bidding on this car is real. 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,74322.175.html

At some point with colors & options a car will separate itself from the herd and price a person is willing to pay/worth to be bought/fixed up (I fall in that profiled stack all day long).  Have not seen photos or really enough details here, but I suspect w/title,fender tag-bld sht, dana, etc might be lots more to the right searching hobby collector who worries a little less about WIW and more about cool rare car: Twocents:

[spoolinhard]

I agree. I have flipped many a car over the years, but this car is one that I would like to get ahold of for myself.

[1969chargerrtse]

From everything I'm reading and your skills, I would offer 5k firm and if he says no I would be glad I don't have all that work ahead of me and move on.

[spoolinhard]

Well, we finally got ahold of him. Absolutely not for sale, not even entertained.

[charger_fan_4ever]

Reminds me of a local guy. He has a 70 R/T 4 speed super track pack car. I started 20 years ago as a teenager to buy it off him. It was a project needed work. He had a NOS front clip for it. Always same story gonna fix it. he was a bodyman too. Last time i went and saw him was probably 10 years ago. He told me he'd put it in his will to sell it to me LOL.

Ran into him at a community meeting last week and got shoot in the bull. Told him i finally got a charger. He then goes on to tell me he had 19 cars stored in a barn on the 1st floor with hay ontop on the second floor. Where they were stored was actually underground. Was a odd fellow and i guess he figured they were safer this way. Well last year the barn caught fir and burned to the ground. They cut a hole in the cement side wall and i guess the fire swooped directly in and all 19 cars toast. Amongst the charger was a 69 SS BB 396 4 speed camaro, early 80's lambo,bricklin, amx vintage sleds and bikes. All burned no insurance. He watched them dig the charger out with an excavator. Will fit in a pickup box now. He said I should have sold you the car.

[spoolinhard]

That is a horrific story. Unfortunately people like this live in complete denial until the deed is done.

[spoolinhard]

I don't think the guy will sell period. He says that he is going to fix it up. he also has a 68 318 car that is in much worse shape, it is missing the front clip, the rear end is gone and it is sitting in the dirt in a field. He says that he is gonna fix that one up too. That is when I knew that his denial was far worse than I had thought. At least the rare one is inside.

[bakerhillpins]

I don't think the guy will sell period. He says that he is going to fix it up. he also has a 68 318 car that is in much worse shape, it is missing the front clip, the rear end is gone and it is sitting in the dirt in a field. He says that he is gonna fix that one up too. That is when I knew that his denial was far worse than I had thought. At least the rare one is inside.

Get his wife's number and watch the obituaries or wait for the divorce.     Then call me.