got pinging

[flyinlow]

needle and seat.

[Nacho-RT74]

ok, but where to find jets ?, I simply have used TQs around, but nothing to tell me which is one or another if different.

seats and needles I have some around. But wouldn't a float adjusment will make the same ?

[BSB67]

At the risk of sounding like a nag, you really should first put -7 plugs in, and a 160 Tstat.  It may not make it go away, but it WILL get you closer.  You should only change your jetting to make the A/R correct, not for the purpose of eliminating ping.   

[flyinlow]

Yea , I would agree , look at the plugs, cranking pressure check and get a timing light.

I can not find the Thermoquad list on the Net anymore. I had it on a prevous laptop, but was not smart enough to print it. Heres what my '73 FSM specs are for a 6322 TQ : 440 Auto standard performance. primary jet 4098 (.098) sec. jet 5137 (.137) primary metering rods #1966 - .067-.052-.045" diameter on the three steps, cruise/acceleration/WOT.

Parts for TQ's are rare ,except for overhaul kits . I have a few parts carbs. They sold Strip Kits years ago with larger and smaller jets. Demmon Sizzler use to sell jets and rods but his website is shutdown.

[Nacho-RT74]

dunno If I can find X7s locally, but will check. BTW I got X5s by suggestion on boards :s. If not, Champions will be my next bet... J14s maybe ?

If I need to get jets, all what I can do is get from donors I have ( will have to check the donors PNs ), same about Rods. All of them are 9000 series. One what I have right now on hands is the 9207 If you can get me some info about will be great. Rest are storaged.

I'm contacting Demmonsizzler at the time. I have talked with him by email loooong time ago.

at this moment will work with floats, and maybe rods ( yes they are 1966 ), since if I'm getting pinging just at 2200 RPMs at sea level, Rear throttles are not yet opening when that happens. Will check plugs too and let you know.

will check cranking pressure tomorrow.

[Nacho-RT74]

OK I didn't got time to play with my carb because I have to go to job ( it took me so long to search all my TQ numbers info) so will be tomorrow, just got time to grab all carbs PNs and related parts... here is the list:

actually running, stock 6322 unmodified. I know it has the 1966 rods because I remmeber that number very well because on an email with demonsizzler he told me that carb was one of the best to use due that rod.

Saved for parts or sometime in the past mounted on my car and removed or whatever reason ( mostly sure due a warped bowl ):

6140 with 1950 rods and 5137 jets
9207 with 2293 rods and 5125 jets
9211 and 9002 without rods and both with 5143 jets

now, parted out rods which some of them sure are from the carbs above without rods. Some others from SB TQs I had which removed useable parts and trashed the rest:

2005
1998
2110
2086

parted out jets:
5125

and an assorment of needles and seats, some new some used. Some are triangular profile, some others square. Haven't measured the lenght. Found a weird needle pair with a ball bearing on it. Sure is not from any TQ around, but who knows

ANY parts from this able to match the best to my build will be great.

aaand. Thanks.

[mhinders]

Nacho, have a look at your current spark plugs before you start shopping new ones. The color of them is interesting.

[flyinlow]

http://ramchargercentral.com/engine/thermoquad-guide/

[Nacho-RT74]

http://ramchargercentral.com/engine/thermoquad-guide/

thanks I had that didn't notice before they had parts specs and wasn't more than of a kinda rebuilt manual. THANKS

I have never been able to remove nicelly the primary jets from the bowl. Allways I have tried from damaged bowls allways get damaged this jets. I have around 3 or 4 more bowls around but never have noticed any PN on primary jets

SO BASED ON THE GUIDE... can I try 5143 secondary jets to enrich the mix, if is true my carb does look it has 5125

[Nacho-RT74]

Nacho, have a look at your current spark plugs before you start shopping new ones. The color of them is interesting.

will try today, but I have not idea where I left the spark plug socket

[flyinlow]

To get the primary jets out it helps to have a good fitting hollow ground screw driver. Gunsmith screwdriver tips work well. I fiind I need a magnifiing glass to read the jet numbers.

[Nacho-RT74]

made to remove good assortment of primary jets from all the carbs I have parted out and extra bowls. Fortunatelly in good conditions even hard to get in some cases, with just some details from the screwdriver job. Got 4095, 4096, 4097 and 4098 primary sets. I haven't dissasembled mine yet to check what do my bowl got, but SUPPOSELLY should be 4098 as the Gary Lewallen guide ( if does have the correct bowl ).

still hearing for opinions about what would be a good set of pieces to optimize my carb to the new engine setup. ( for a while waiting for demmonsizzler reply )

[Nacho-RT74]

ok... here is what I made to my carb:

dissasembled the carb to check the TRUTH of the 6322 carb I have. Only truth I found it was the rods ( 1966 ) and the bottom plate LOL. Bowl had 4095 jets and top plate got 5125 jets.

Decided to proceed with the more radical change I can with the parts I have handly

So first step, try to replace the primary jets. Found IMPOSIBLE to remove one of the jets from the bowl I was using. I got it virtually destroyed and imposible to remove. Fortunatelly I allways save any TQ carb for parts I can find around and found same exactly bowl I was using ( I think to remember 2184 body ) already epoxy fixed by me looong time ago, mostly sure having it ready for a future replacement, but still untested for leaks though, with also 4095 jets, BUT this time I could remove them, and fit the bigger jets I had available from the donors around, a 4098 set. Demmonsizzler replied me and suggested .100", but I don't have it and I don't think able to find it locally.

on top plate found it had 5125 jets and got from the rest of parts a 5143 set. It was an inmediatly decision specially after read the .149" suggestion by by demmonsizzler ( he assumed I should have .137" on mine ) for the secondaries. But 5143 Is the bigger I have around.

Then compaired all the rods I had around with the 1966 were on my carb and found a 2086 rod set with maybe same sizes on mid and top ( hard to check side by side ) but definitelly smaller diameter at the bottom end ( for full throttle function? ). I think thats a good option. Am I right ?

other rods I have are:
2005
1998
2110
1950
2293

dunno if some of these is some better than the 2086 I'm mounting or the 1966 I had in it

Checked the floats.. brass... they were at 1 1/16". I set that height in the past per some rebuild kit instruction sheet I have around ( I think high grade kit ), where said that height for 6322. I remember demonsizzle rhad on his website to have them set at 29/32". This time I wanted to go with some kinda intermediate to make the first test, so set them at 31/32".

also gave maybe 1/4 turn more to the secondary air valve spring screw,  giving some extra tension and maybe alowing some more fuel before full open valve ? I didn't want to deal a lot with the tab.

So now waiting for the oil pressure fix before test what I did.

BTW, pic of the sparkplugs!!!!!!! all I removed where like that.

ANY of the reasons posted here can get this... lean mixture, bad timming or wrong heat spark plug range

[flyinlow]

My 1 1/2 inch primary bore TQ (850cfm) has 4098/ 5143 jets. It shows around 12.5  A/F ratio at WOT.  It also runs 15.5:1 -16:1 at cruise and light acceleration. This seams a little lean, but it runs fine and does not ping (Edelbrock heads). You can change the part throttle mixture when running on the primarys by adjusting the small screw in the metering rod stirrup . This determines how fast the rods pull out of the jets when the manifold vacuum is still high. The faster the rods rise to follow the cam on the throttle shaft the richer the mixture. At low vacuum they rise by spring pressure to the full rich position, if the cam follower has not put them there already.

The three TQ bowls I have all appear to be the same. Differrent carb numbers.

Not sure how far you drove on those plugs. Looks like you might go a range colder and maybe a little richer?   

[nvrbdn]

 

[firefighter3931]

That plug is lean....jet it up ! 

Ron

[Nacho-RT74]

My 1 1/2 inch primary bore TQ (850cfm) has 4098/ 5143 jets. It shows around 12.5  A/F ratio at WOT.  It also runs 15.5:1 -16:1 at cruise and light acceleration....

Not sure how far you drove on those plugs. Looks like you might go a range colder and maybe a little richer?   

so same jets I will be running now.

how high do you have the floaters ?

running two weeks.

at this moment I can't keep engine running. Mostly sure O rings are not the right ones, and engine is choking, because when turn off the engine, I can see white vapors coming out from carb. I have to get them around, because no kits locally. Still have one O ring NOS and will use that as a sample to get the closer to this NOS one. I have already done this, but looks the ones I have extras around are not the right ones.

[flyinlow]

Not sure on the float level. 29/32 seams to be the popular number. Slightly higher fuel level than factory spec.

Carb won't run right without good orings on the primary pickup tubes. Likes to dribble gas in the primarys when its not supose to. The o rings have a square cross section to them. I tried round cross section orings without success.

[Nacho-RT74]

Found a good metering rod chart!

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/engine/mopp_0501_tuning_the_carter_thermoquad_carburetor/metering_rods.html

[Nacho-RT74]

without say VICTORY yet, I think that I made it!?

made to get 4500 RPMs at highway without any sign of ping I could notice. I was running with glass down so too much exterior noise. Next time will try with glass rolled up. I was able to feel/heard the pinging before with rolled down glass just harder to notice.

I made to go up a hill at 3000 RPMs too without pinging at all.

I ignore totally the initial timming I have right now, because I don't have the lamp handly ( yet ) but was playing on a trial and error. It think it is close to the 14-16º as far I remember the position

Mechanical advance and springs are still the same I set initially.

Carb has been as I have told, "modified" with 098 ( from 095 it had ) primary jets, 143 secondary jets ( from 125 it had ), floats sets a 1" ( it were at 1 1/16" ), and rods... well 2086 from 1966 it had, but I think I still can play more with this. They are pretty much the same based on the link I posted above with more diff on WOT.

With all these mods I think still will need to tune up better the iddle circuit mixture. At this moment its iddling gently jumpy, but stable... 750 to 800 RPMs althought has been changing a little bit +/-50 RPMs

I NOTICED I GOT MORE POWER! even made to scream a little bit the tires ( SG ) without try it, but giving a nice gas pedal push down from traffic light.

will play more.

[71bee]

     

Somehow, I missed this thread. i'm suprised to find that your 6322S had .95 primary jets. that's definitely not standard for that model. probably a Holley re-build somewhere in it's life. they were famous for messing up Carters.

[Nacho-RT74]

actually WHO KNOWS WHO DID IT LOL... I found it locally, so it could be a local deal

[71bee]

actually WHO KNOWS WHO DID IT LOL... I found it locally, so it could be a local deal

So long as you got it fixed, that's all that matters. 

[Nacho-RT74]

It looks, but hard to reach more than 3500 on the city highways with lot of traffic around, so untill know I haven't been able to check it.

haven't had time to go down to sea level either to check if still at 2.2K will ping.

another problem I'm confronting is is a HEAVY vibration when going over 110 miles, what I think it comes from tranny... maybe some worn bushing

will keep posted

[elacruze]

Nacho,

Just for some context, my 505" motor with 10.6:1 (aluminum eddy heads) ignition specs;

(IIRC, I may have these mixed up a little)

14* initial
16* mechanical
18* vacuum

30* idling
14-20* WOT total around 2200
32* WOT total above 3200
40-48* cruising total 2500 up

My mechanical advance isn't all in until 3200RPM-at 2000-2500rpm WOT timing is only 14-20* where cylinder pressure is highest.

Tune your ignition first, jetting second. If you don't have a light, just use the Hillbilly Twist and reduce timing until it stops rattling. After you find your maximum no-ping setting, you can recurve the distributor for the idle and high RPM settings, which don't change much for most engines. It's the middle that changes most between builds.

It's a pain, but with even an inexpensive timing light and some graph paper, you can check/ping RPM points one test at a time, and have the distributor recurved to that graph. Rev to an RPM, record the timing, road test for ping, adjust, repeat.

Without writing pages of theory and explanation, I'll say that your jetting is actually too lean to contribute to ping; that's a function of pressure and heat and you're too lean to make heat. (max heat at 14:1 or so) Low altitude makes a lot more pressure, though, so ping is worse at sea level.