I would like to offer my help

[Hudson Hornet !]

To the good people of this great website, I have been a collision repair teacher for a few years, and I have been involved with paint and body most of my life- I started spreading filler at age 3!   Anyways, this website has been a great tool for me to brush up on my second gen( got a '68) skills and I would like to have the opportunity to return the favor.  If there are any bodywork questions that you may have, ( procedures, products to use, etc) please post here and I will do my best to provide accurate info.  I certainly do not claim to know it all, and there are many, many good people on this site that are more knowledgeable than me. I  just wanted to help do my part in keeping this site the best on the web!

Thank you,

Darrin Burt
Collision repair
Venango Technology Center, Oil City Pa

[Dino]

 

I did resto, custom and collision work for 15+ years but been out of it for about 5 now.  Techniques don't change much but products do and I'm out of the loop.

It's nothing I'll be doing anytime soon but eventually I would need some recommendations for undercoating and spray on sound deadener/insulator.  Last I heard the ceramic type insulation was pretty nice but that too is many years ago.

I'm sure you'll have plenty opportunity to help members out here!

[Hudson Hornet !]

When it comes to undercoating, I really like  a do it yourself spray in bedliner like Raptor liner by U-Pol .  Costs about $125 for enough to do a truck bed.  Looks really slick under a car but it does not have the factory undercoating appearance. 

For a ceramic coating, I have not used this product yet but I have heard good things about " Lizard Skin" Sound deadener. 

[Dino]

Lizard skin!  That's the one!

Yes truck bed liner would definitely be a good candidate. I like the idea of have a smooth(er) finish than the rough undercoating.

[b5blue]

 Can you explain the difference between a gravity feed spray gun and a high-volume low-pressure spray gun? Also how are the various spray tip openings determined? I see many guns that look similar but are described as one or the other with various sized tips available.
  Have you any recent experience with panel bonding adhesive for patch repairs? Thank you for your time.

[Hudson Hornet !]

B5 Blue,   

Gravity feed and high volume low pressure ( hvlp)  are kind of two different things.  Gravity feed guns have the paint cup on top of the gun, which is the favored setup these days.

HVLP guns spray a lot of material at a low pressure ( 20-25 psi for example) and with this design there is a lot less overspray and you use less paint to do the job. Older guns ( non HVLP) use 40-50 psi.

Most new guns are both gravity feed and HVLP, with a few exceptions.

Gun tips are usually measured in millimeters, with smaller tips ( 1.3) used for paint like waterborne colors, and 1.4-1.5 tips are usually reserved for solvent colors and clearcoats. Larger tips ( 2.0mm) are used for thicker fluids like primers.

When choosing a gun tip size, please refer to the paint manufacturers reccomendations as what I wrote above is not a hard and fast rule. Different manufacturers require different things.

[Hudson Hornet !]

As far as panel replacement with adhesive, I believe it has it's place, but not on everything. For a high stress area like a full quarter, I will weld every time. I like the assurance that it is welded. In my shop the main things we glue are cab corners for trucks, and small patch panels in non-stressed areas.

One nice thing about adhesive is that it has excellent corrosion protection, and it will not warp the panel like welding will if it is too hot.

With some adhesives you can glue the panel, and then weld through the glue with a squeeze type resistance spot welder.  The downside to this is that the welders are extremely expensive compared to a mig.

Hope this helps!

[b5blue]

Thanks! More later....

[Mike DC]

 
Question with panel adhesives . . . has the issue with "ghost lines" on adhesive-bonded seams ever been resolved? 

I understand there is thermal expansion & contraction to deal with, but I would think a layer of filler (or something else) on top would be enough to mask it somehow.  But people always say it eventually shows through.  Me, I've always been a welder and not messed with the stuff on visible seams. 

 

[Hudson Hornet !]

Mike,

We have had problems in our shop like that, so I called up Fusor and they said that most ghosting problems come from not grinding the metal to a beveled edge first. We have tried this and had success, but there is still always a chance....
Expansion and contraction rates could cause this as well, just like someone filling in the sail panel of a 2nd gen. Some guys say it never happens, some say it always happens. Me, I'm a welding guy too. Guess I'm old school but I sleep better at night knowing that things are welded!

If you guys are interested. My buddy Kevin Tetz has some great dvd's that are called paintucation.  He's got a website and a forum there with alot of cool things. In one of his latest videos titled " Body panel replacement" he takes an old mustang and welds one quarter patch panel on, then goes to the other side of the car and glues the other patch to show you how its done.

Both sides look great, and he has some useful tips for the do it yourselfer.

[Chatt69chgr]

I've about got my 69 Charger unibody torn down completely.  Getting it ready for the body man.  I am scrapping off the undercoating myself.  The trunk pans will have to be patched as will the drivers front floor pan and the inner fender panel under the battery.  Is the best course of action to have the car media blasted and epoxy primed and then take to body man.  Or should I have him do the patch work first-----then have the  car blasted and primed and take back to the body man to block sand it?

Was quoted $2400 to media blast and epoxy prime whole body as well as take pictures of rust areas for body man.  Seemed high to me.  Is that about what this should cost?  At some point some blasting will have to be done since there is some rust in the area of the front frame rails and under the rear tail panel.  Also, there is still tiny bits of undercoating here and there that you can't get off without blasting.  So there will be some media blasing no matter what.  

I'm assuming that I need to take the car down to bare metal and come back with epoxy primer since it's waterproof.  I figured that media blast would be about only way to get all the old paint off.

[Hudson Hornet !]

There are a hundred ways to skin a cat, but I prefer to blast the car first if I am not familiar with the car.  This shows you the total bad areas you have. Epoxy is a good choice, just make sure your bodyman agrees on the brand. It's best to use a complete paint system together than use a primer from one company, sealer from another, etc. Sometimes you can have paint problems when you mix and match.

On my own charger project, I knew where my sin was located, so I did not blast the car until I had my quarters off along with the trunk floor, tail panel, rear valance and crossmember( Yep, the car was braced well!!).  This let me blast areas that I could not normally reach when they are attatched.  Please note however, my car was almost a basketcase and your's is probably much nicer to start with.

In the end it is up to you, but I would contact your body man and ask him what he is most comfortable with.  I would also talk to the shop that is blasting the car as you can warp panels easily with blasting and heavy media.

[PA Dodger]

What is your prefered method for filling the quarter to roof seam on a non-vinyl top car? Will the "metal to metal" type filler work? I don't have oxy acetalyne so which "lead" filler? I have heard a number of methods. Just looking for another second opinion.

I scraped off all the undercoating I could reach. What prep do I need now for a bedliner type coating?

You're only 1 1/2 hours North of me. Are you sure you don't need a "demonstrational project" for your class? The sheetmetal replacement work is done. Now comes the Pain-In-The-A$$! part of the entire resto. Spread the bondo on-sand the bondo off. Repeat... 

[Hudson Hornet !]

Pa Dodger, 

On sail panels, there are two methods I really like.  The first is to metal finish the sail panel so I don't need a filler, but this involves mucho welding and fitting- it's not easy but it leaves the panels completely connected. The second method I like is to fully stitch weld the seam and use lead.  I like lead for the simple reason that you don't have to worry so much about the telegraphing of the seam.  Another decent alternative is a product like All-metal which is basicly a waterproof filler with powdered metal added.

For a bedliner coating, I like to sand as much as I can with 80 grit paper, works fast and is simple.  Each bedliner company has recommended prep, but they are all pretty close to the same.  On areas I can't hand sand, a wire wheel attatchment on a cordless drill can do the trick!

Where are you from?  Nice to see another PA boy here!   

[PA Dodger]

Darrin,
I'm, from Irwin, just east of Pittsburgh.
I'm down to a few small areas to address before the car gets epoxy primered. I think I'll try my hand at leading the sail panel. The other problem area is the area under the cowl louvers. No rust or anything. Just too grungy for paint. I'm thinking about masking the louvers and sandblasting through them. Any thoughts?
Thanks
Dan 

[Hudson Hornet !]

Irwin? my mother's family is from Paintertown, very close to Irwin!

Tackling the louvers is a pain in the butt.  I like your idea though, let us know how it works!  Probably would help to use a thick tape like gorilla tape!

[Dino]

I'm not saying this is how you should proceed, sandblasting may work (although I'd recommend soda blasting instead) but in the past when I found the cowl area to be pretty bad I have actually drilled all the spotwelds and removed the entire cowl.  It seems drastic but if you do it right you can take the entire piece off and clean the underside and inside of the cowl, do any repairs needed and epoxy coat the insides.  Use weld primer on the seams and put the cowl back in place.

For the sail panel I still believe there is absolutely nothing better than cutting out the original seam and welding in a strip of metal.  You will never have to worry about that seam again.

[Patronus]

Leading is much easier with two people.

[PA Dodger]

Patronus,
Why is that? I would think the hand that controls the heat needs to know what the hand that controls the lead is doing? What am I missing?

[Hudson Hornet !]

Just bumping this one up to the top in case anyone has any questions

[brant]

Hi Darren, I'm a hobbiest with two cars under my belt. Unfortunately I've become obsessed with body & paint, and will be attempting a black car next – which I hope to be my last. After my metal messaging, I've been using my filler direct to metal, feather to 180, then DP90Epoxy, followed by k38 high build within topcoat window, block to 600. I then hand over car for sealer and single stage paint.

Question is – Should I pick up some heat lamps (of some sort) and bake my car between each process? Bake after filler, Bake after K38? I've never done this and many people say no need – however, of the five Top cars I've seen over the past three years – all involved a process of baking, or simply months of sitting around. 

thoughts?

[FORHER74]

OK teach I'm ready to learn.  I recently purchased a 74 charger rallye, the rear quarters are rotten, drivers floor rotten, rear floor is not rotted through anywhere but seems soft when given the screw driver test.  I've been a auto tech at a dodge dealer for 10 years but have done next  no body work.  My goal is to install rear skins and drivers floor, repaint to original colour (deep sherwood met green).  I pretty much need to know where to start right through to how to finish.  I have access to any equipment and be willing to buy some needed tools if I don't already have them. Any help you can give, from what products to use and best practices would be great.

[Hudson Hornet !]

Brant-  I have used heat lamps and infrared before, but to be honest with you my preferred method is to let the products cure with time.  Crash shops like the lamps because they decrease the curing period for a given product.  Although they are very usefull, if I were you I would just take my time and let each product cure with it's own pace. 

I have seen shops push the envelope with these lamps and some have been bitten trying to finish in a hurry.  Good luck with the black car, if my car didn't have to be orange it would be black!!!!!


Forher74-  We've all been there!   The first thing I would do is find someone in your area with experience in bodywork ( preferably with old mopars), then both of you go over the car at the same time.  I would also recommend getting a few videos from Kevin Tetz ( paintucation).  These are hands down the best videos on the market and they deal with everything from rust repair, panel replacement, etc clear up to buffing your new paint.  I use these videos in my class all the time.   

dburt@vtc1.org   Shoot me an e-mail with your number and I will give you a call to help you any way that I can.

Thanks, guys,  Darrin

[PA Dodger]

Darrin,
My question is regarding Brants method of bodywork. I always used the same method of body filler directly to bare metal then painting over it. Now it seems the chosen method now is sandwiching the filler between an epoxy primer and the and the sealer primer/top coat. Which method do you think is better?Why?
BTW, from my previous post, masking the vent louvers and sandblasting through them worked great. The louvers didn't warp and the area underneath came out spotless.

[Hudson Hornet !]

Pa Dodger,

Nice to hear about your cowl vent success!!!

As far as the question about filler, I have done both and I can tell you that either method is acceptable.  For the ultimate in corrosion protection, you just can't beat epoxy over prepped bare steel. However, for many many years we put filler directly over bare steel and then primed when the bodywork was finished. What do I do now?  I prep the metal to get good adhesion and then use DuPont 2580cr epoxy and then do my bodywork over that. 

However, some fillers state that the product should be used over bare steel only so it's kind of a catch 22.

Bottom line, either way will work, however epoxy offers more corrosion protection.

Hope this helps!