backfire with truck... Im at a loss with the dealership!

[moparstuart]

LATEST UPDATE FROM DEALERSHIP:

just talked to ford, supposedly, the backfiring was caused by a spark plug that had a "hairline crack" and that they replaced all 8 of the spark plugs yet they are not covered under any kind of warranty. However, when they replaced a coil pack about a month ago, they also replaced the spark plug which WAS covered under warranty...... im confused!  They are going to do a test drive after it sits all night to see if the backfiring is still there. 

To me, if it was a spark plug that had a hairline crack, it would do it warm and cold, but what do I know?  Im just the customer.  Gut feeling is that I am still not buying the fact that it was the problem and it is fixed.

sounds like they are repairing your car by throwing replacement parts at it instead of diagnosing the right in the thing first place .      

[resq302]

Problem is if this is not the fix then I am really going to be pissed and call FORD cause they have now said twice that they have talked to FORD and determined that this was the problem.  So either I am being lied to my face or someone has no clue what is going on!

[moparstuart]

Problem is if this is not the fix then I am really going to be pissed and call FORD cause they have now said twice that they have talked to FORD and determined that this was the problem.  So either I am being lied to my face or someone has no clue what is going on!

The hunt and peck guessing what is the problem is , shouldnt be happening at a New ford dealership .

[resq302]

not when there is no engine codes showing up and they "mechanics" have no clue what the problem is.

[daveco]

I have to agree with Stewart, it sounds like they are throwing parts at it hoping that you will just go away. Intermittent or cold start only problems are time consuming to diagnose properly, and when the tech is not making any money on the job it's going to be real hard to keep him interested.
Your only hope is that they accidentally get it right or maybe the regional tech rep can use your truck for a diagnosis seminar.

[Stretch]

I'd pitch a bitch and ask why in the hell I have to pay for 16 spark plugs in 30 days. I'd also tell them if there going to replace the plugs again they better not put the 2 piece motorcraft plugs in it. Tell them you want the one piece champion plugs. If your going to pay again you might as well get what you want. The two piece plugs come apart and leave a sleave in the head. Makes for a pricy plug job. The champions dont come apart when removing them.

[resq302]

I am well aware of the upgraded one piece design now.  I actually think that motorcraft has also changed the plug.  Just to clarify, I have not paid for ANY of the plugs yet.  Initially, they only replaced the one plug that was bad in the one cyl that had the bad coil pack.  They did NOT replace all 8 the first time because Ford "would only authorize and warranty the plug that was defective" even though the spark plugs should be replaced as a set.  Now that all 8 spark plugs "need to be replaced" they are saying that they are not covered under warranty since spark plugs are not part of any warranty (yet they covered that one initially).  Now the service advisor told me yesterday that the dealership was going to cover the spark plugs.  The last time they told me they were going to cover a foam gasket for the air filter, they did, however, they charged me labor for the install.  All I know is that they better not try and charge me labor for the plug install, especially if they had any broken ones coming out.  I did not authorize them to do that.  They only work that they were "authorized" to perform was stuff that was covered under the basic power train warranty OR stuff that was covered under my extended warranty where my deductible is $100.  I have no issues with getting "loud" inside the dealership or in the show room.

[Stretch]

I bet they try and charge the labor. I'm sure the mechanic works flat rate.

[resq302]

let them try.  I didn't authorize it.  They had very concise instructions and so far, they have botched that up.  Example- mechanic replaces the MAF sensor and now claims the truck does not fall on its face when floored and the eng. temp is cold.  Of course it doesn't do it now, matter of fact, it NEVER did that!  Oh, by the way, jack wagon, the backfiring is still there so you didn't fix it still!  Maybe next time I will write up the stuff in spanish so Carlos the mechanic can understand what the problem is!  I know I am just ranting but I am just so freakin annoyed with this whole situation, I wish it was a brake issue so when I pulled it back to the dealership, it would go through the showroom and I could get out and say, "Nice job guys!"  The brakes work fine!"     at least that new mustang shelby convert. was there to stop me.

[resq302]

stupid question, but am I legally responsible to have to pay for any services that I did NOT authorize?

[ACUDANUT]

 Tell them yea, it's works great...Then say I want to trade it in, for the price I paid. Give or take a couple of grand.

[resq302]

I doubt I would be able to find anything that year or newer with the mileage or price range that I can afford.  Also, Ive only owned it since last June/July so I still have a hefty pay off on it.  Plus the accessories I put into it... I'd be losing money.

[stripedelete]

Please clarify.  Did you notice the backfire the first time you pulled out of the dealership after picking the vehicle up right after the lifter work?  Or did you first notice it on on your normal morning commute? 

[resq302]

noticed it a day after I had the truck back.  So, it was running fine when I picked it up (which the engine could have been warm, I really didn't think at the time to check the eng. temp gauge) and then started doing the same problem again.  The earliest they could take my truck in was when I got it back in there about 3 weeks ago now and they said just go easy on the truck and if it starts making the noise stop the truck.

[resq302]

well, I got the truck back.  It did not seem to have the backfiring last night although I could not really test it since the roads were wet and I didn't want the back end of the truck sliding around.  Also, they did not give me a work order as to what work was performed.  Since I picked up the truck after the service dept. was closed, the cashier said that since there was no charge, I wouldn't get a work order.  Another load of BS.  How and I to know what was replaced and what wasn;t?  Im placing a call to them this morning as I want some kind of paperwork saying what was done!

[stripedelete]

well, I got the truck back.  It did not seem to have the backfiring last night although I could not really test it since the roads were wet and I didn't want the back end of the truck sliding around.  Also, they did not give me a work order as to what work was performed.  Since I picked up the truck after the service dept. was closed, the cashier said that since there was no charge, I wouldn't get a work order.  Another load of BS.  How and I to know what was replaced and what wasn;t?  Im placing a call to them this morning as I want some kind of paperwork saying what was done!

If it is fixed, no charge, and they gave you a free loaner, consider leaving it alone.  Keep your powder dry.  You may really need some good will from them someday.

[ACUDANUT]

 On the other hand, they could at least tell you what the problem was, and how they fixed it.

[moparstuart]

 get the work order you need for your records what was replaced 

[resq302]

get the work order you need for your records what was replaced 

That was my point Stuart.  How if something fails down the road from what they did am I going to know exactly what was done.    But when I called them today, they said it would be mailed to me but they had to "figure out" what to put on the work order first.  Figure out??  Didn't they fix or work on the truck or at least know what the mechanic was doing to it?  Something just doesn't sound right.  Are they trying to cover something up and get Ford to pay for it making it look like it was something that was covered under warranty when it was really something that they caused?  Is it just me or is anyone else thing something is fishy?

[moparstuart]

get the work order you need for your records what was replaced  

That was my point Stuart.  How if something fails down the road from what they did am I going to know exactly what was done.    But when I called them today, they said it would be mailed to me but they had to "figure out" what to put on the work order first.  Figure out??  Didn't they fix or work on the truck or at least know what the mechanic was doing to it?  Something just doesn't sound right.  Are they trying to cover something up and get Ford to pay for it making it look like it was something that was covered under warranty when it was really something that they caused?  Is it just me or is anyone else thing something is fishy?

the tech did the work , they know exactly what he did , they should not have to think about it  

[stripedelete]

get the work order you need for your records what was replaced 

That was my point Stuart.  How if something fails down the road from what they did am I going to know exactly what was done.    But when I called them today, they said it would be mailed to me but they had to "figure out" what to put on the work order first.  Figure out??  Didn't they fix or work on the truck or at least know what the mechanic was doing to it?  Something just doesn't sound right.  Are they trying to cover something up and get Ford to pay for it making it look like it was something that was covered under warranty when it was really something that they caused?  Is it just me or is anyone else thing something is fishy?

Yes

[gtx6970]

From a techs point of view.

He may have well over diag time in it that ford did/or will auth to cover. It's not all that uncommon for a dealer to  'make things up' so to speak in order for the tech to get all his time out of it.

As an example
Ford authorized 4 hours, But the tech hit this 4 hour mark and it's not repaired, and then it become an obsession to fix it or die trying. so once it's all said and done he has, lets say 8 hours in it. Theres 4 hours he should be compensated for, yes or no ?

And for the ones who keep saying they should diagnose it right from the beginning, (And trust me, it's rarely as simple as some customers seem to think it is) needs to put that techs pair of paints on for a week and see how life in an automotve service dept really is. It WILL give you whole new respect for mechanics.

And yes, I'm well aware of the parts hangers and theives in the field . But theres 10 good for 1 bad tech

[ACUDANUT]

 Well said GTX, I have been on that side before.
However, "On the other hand, they could at least tell you what the problem was, and how they fixed it."

[stripedelete]

From a techs point of view.

He may have well over diag time in it that ford did/or will auth to cover. It's not all that uncommon for a dealer to  'make things up' so to speak in order for the tech to get all his time out of it.

As an example
Ford authorized 4 hours, But the tech hit this 4 hour mark and it's not repaired, and then it become an obsession to fix it or die trying. so once it's all said and done he has, lets say 8 hours in it. Theres 4 hours he should be compensated for, yes or no ?

And for the ones who keep saying they should diagnose it right from the beginning, (And trust me, it's rarely as simple as some customers seem to think it is) needs to put that techs pair of paints on for a week and see how life in an automotve service dept really is. It WILL give you whole new respect for mechanics.

And yes, I'm well aware of the parts hangers and theives in the field . But theres 10 good for 1 bad tech

Exactly.  When they're finsihed with that WRO it will have to be a work-of-art to get half of what they are into that job paid.  It will probably be boarderline fraud (against FoMoCo). However,  it will have all, of the parts and labor operations that were used on your truck (and maybe a couple more), but it may not resemble the same Condition Cause Remedy scenerio that actually occurred.  But you will be covered.  

They put you in a loaner and stuck with it instead of giving you the broom.  Let'em up for air.  If it is fixed go back in a couple of weeks and get a copy. Remember, it will always be attached to your VIN in Ford's system.

They're not trying to screw you, this one just had "hair".    

(I just hope it's really fixed.)

[resq302]

This is my thing.... if you removed the coil packs to replace every one of the spark plugs like they said they did, wouldn't there be a fresh or clean / shiny area part on the rusty bolt that held the coil pack in if they had to remove the bolt and then put it back in?  I know on painted parts, you get a tool mark where the paint is or used to be from the tool chipping or wearing the paint away.  I guess I lost faith in them after the whole "I fixed it cause its not falling flat on its face" comment from the mechanic when that was never an issue with my truck.  Now Im just worried that they are going to say that there are parts in there that aren't or that they did not put parts in that are actually there trying to cover something else up.  Maybe I am just paranoid?