Barrett-Jackson auction starts today...

[BigBlockSam]

I don't like guys in the hobby who don't have the "love" 

[Shakey]

Ghoste & dkn1997 - two very good rebutals!  Mature & intelligent! 

Point taken!

[BigBlockSam]

you didn't like my joke,   

[Shakey]

you didn't like my joke,   

Yes I did Rene, you made me laugh twice tonight!

[Ghoste]

Shakey, I understand your point of view too I should point out.  It's a matter of perspective and at 43 years of age, I have no intention of quitting my job and going back to school so I can get a better job to outbid those guys.  I have my car so that isn't the issue.  I'm not so much jealous as angry.  I am witnessing a culture that has been near and dear to me for a long time vanish before my eyes.  Evolve or die perhaps?  I am truly a dinosaur.

[Big Lebowski]

After BJ, Ebay's going to be loaded with some cars looking for the same $$$

[BigBlockSam]

cool 

[dkn1997]

After BJ, Ebay's going to be loaded with some cars looking for the same $$$

Ebay's the last thing I am thinking of after that.......I just want to pull my pants up and get the hell out of there.

[TruckDriver]

I agree with you totally Ghoste 

[Big Lebowski]

Shakey, I understand your point of view too I should point out.  It's a matter of perspective and at 43 years of age, I have no intention of quitting my job and going back to school so I can get a better job to outbid those guys.  I have my car so that isn't the issue.  I'm not so much jealous as angry.  I am witnessing a culture that has been near and dear to me for a long time vanish before my eyes.  Evolve or die perhaps?  I am truly a dinosaur.

Yep, were dinosaurs all right. I saw a plate on a '71 'Cuda that said "X-tinct" Well look at the bright side, you can drive it untill they pass the Kyoto treaty. That's when gas will be $12 a gallon with a worldwide mandatory 40% cut in ALL emissions. Old cars are el numero uno on that short list, along with power plants, your job, etc. etc.

[Hemidoug]

Guys....The "problem" is that our hobby is more popular then the amount of cars available to support it. It is simply supply and demand. The muscle cars we have grown to love and adore are popular. The same thing happened back in the 80s. I can remember chasing hemi cars when they were 10-20K thinking that was an outrageous level. Now who here wouldn't jump all over a Hemi car for 20K. Back in the day we were used to buying R/Ts, GTXs and cuda for 1-2K. If it wasn't for the escalation of value, there wouldn't be half the re-pop parts available today. It has nothing to do with "rich" people, BJ, or ebay. If there were less people buying, the prices would be lower, but there would also be less cars, less parts, and MANY more cars sent to the happy junkyard in the sky. Many more cars have been brought back from the brink then otherwise BECAUSE of their rise in popularity and value. There are still deals around, it just takes some hard work.

On another note, in regards to my other post.....A 69 Camaro 427 Yanko "recreation" (clone) just went for 70K. Who would have thought that a 67 Hemi GTX "recreation" (clone)would sell for almost twice that of a 69 Camaro 427 Yanko "recreation". It just goes to show that supply and demand are in full control over the market.

Now, if you wet behind the ears, new-comers to the hobby would find another interest, I might just be able to afford to do another car!!!

[bill440rt]

My favorite car so far was the Fiat "Fantasy Island" Tattoo Car. Complete with cloth fringed roof, chrome grab bar, and the peach paint job. All that for $40 freaking grand! 
$40 grand, for a big golf cart? WTF!!!!!   

The sublime 71 Charger R/T did have some issues. Other than the grille & wing that was mentioned, I saw a lot of detailing oversights, such as a painted over hood latch and a wrinkled hood decal. Stuff such as that might note a "quickie" resto job, or things that you can't always see on TV.

[Mike DC]

I think the supply & demand problem lies in three areas:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--  Detroit has spent 20 years not making the kind of musclecars that are in demand.  Now ANYBODY from ANY age group has to buy 35-year-old car just to get something cool & masculine.  3 or 4 generations of buyers seeking 1 generation of cars.

--  The resto industry watches the prices of good used Mopar sheetmetal skyrocket, and then they go merrily on their way stamping more Chevy parts.  (That place stamping new '69 Camaro shells has just said they would sooner do a '70s Nova body than a '70s Cuda convertible body.  Sometimes I don't know why we even TRY to communicate with Chevy-biased companies anymore.)

--  Rose-colored glasses.  It's rediculous to expect to buy a decent 1969 Dodge Charger project car for less than the price of a used 10-year-old Toyota.  You can't even get a coat of PAINT sprayed on an old car for $3000 these days.  $15K for a decent driveable big-block 1960s Charger is not a lot of money anymore.

.

[hemihead]

Someone on Ebay saw that Sublime 71 R/T because there is a 71 Super Bee on now  at $55,000. 

[Ghoste]

I think there is a certain amount of artificial panic to the supply and demand in this case as well though.  The record prices at B-J do not reflect a normal market increase due to supply and demand.  They made nearly a hundred thousand 69 Chargers.  That is NOT a rare car.  I'm not talking about Hemis or how many are left but as you said yourself, they're still out there.  You say e-bay is not  to blame but how many e-bay ads for ANY Charger related vehicle, part, photo, anything do not include the word "rare"?  (of course I don't go there much anymore so there may be none today )
For such rare cars, there sure never seems to be a shortage of them for sale on e-bay or at B-J.  You know where you don't see them as much anymore?  The pages of MCG.  Nobody weants to run a print ad where they have to state a price and listen to guys grind them down.  They want the comfort and convenience of e-bay where the world will scramble to bid higher and higher for thier "rare" 69 Charger 318 car.
I have been to dozens of classic car auctions and many of these guys have an almost peripheral interst in cars.  Mopars are cool now and not so long ago it was Chevy's.  There is an acohol assisted testosterone fueled need to prove you can afford it.  That your hard work and better education got you a better job and made you a bigger fish.  Add the magic of television and it's game on baby!
Not in all cases, but in many.
But again, let me make it clear that I have my car.  My beef lies in seeing the culture change.  We are very quickly getting to a point where no one will be willing to drive these things.  It will hopefully not happen for several years, but all of those 100k+ cars, even that 71 Charger RT, how many of those will be used for cruise nights or driving out to the beach?  Those cars are investments and must be sheltered like any investment in order to grow.
I'm not really ranting because change is inevitable just offering my personal observation.

[hemihead]

As far as supply and demand, just run a search on your comp for any classic Mopar and I think you will see they are not so rare.Lots of 383's built
still out there.What is crazy is the prices that are asked for even the base models.So that makes me think that the Mopar buying public must be pretty stupid to pay the prices sellers are asking.Educated consumer?No, just a bunch of people who are spoiled and are obcessed with out doing the next guy.And yes I am upset with the rich guys in this hobby.These were the same guys when I was turning wrenches on Mopars and paying my dues on the streets, they were polishing their Trans Ams, Camaros, and Vettes, while turning up their noses.Now, suddenly,they are "Mopar Experts" because they read all the Mopar mags and Restoration Manuals but paid everyone else to restore their carfor them.They don't even know how a internal combustion engine works!I liked it sooo much better when only the real mopar guys owned mopars.When they weren't worth anything.Sorry, just my opinion.

[Hemidoug]

Ghoste,
I disagree....there will still be cruise nights, car shows, car related events ect that cater to the hobby. I drive my 69 ALL the time, just ask Chris (just 6t9 chgr). I go to cruises 2-3 times a week as well as car shows on the weekend. The perception that BJ or ebay is the driving force behind the rise in price is wrong. The market is driven by the BUYERS, not how the vehicles are brought to market. If someone was selling a plain Jane 318 Charger for 100K how many people would look twice at it? Now stuff a Hemi in it, and it becomes more attractive, but not enough for the purists in the hobby. But what about that guy who always wanted a car like that back in the day, but didn't have the skills, or money, or time to buy one and store it for later? Today that same guy may not have the skills, but has the money to achieve that dream. So....what does the guy do? He goes out and plunks down $$$$ on his dream car. Now multiply that by millions of those same guys and what you have is todays climate. Now you have the speculators who take advantage of the market and it starts to feed on itself. You are correct to feel pissed about being muscled out of todays market, so do I. I like to restore cars. I keep the vehicles I have restored. I'm looking for another project and can't seem to find one that is reasonable as well. There is nothing we can do about it, so you just have to accept it for what it is and go on. The market will come back to center again, it will just take time. Prices will flatten out as buyers are driven away by other forces. To blame BJ or Ebay for this is just not realistic. We are a victim of our own success.

[Ghoste]

I understand your point to Doug but I disagree that how the vehicles are brought to market has no effect.  Do you think if B-J was not televised and there were no e-bay, that we would still be bombarded with all of these "rare" cars?
They have a very STRONG effect on the market.  The general public believes anything they see on tv.  How many people do you know who aren't car buffs who watch B-J for the spectacle?  I know plenty.
Again, I don't feel muscled out of the market.  i have my car.  I feel shoulder to shoulder with people who aren't really car guys by my personal definition.  Otherwise, they'd have probably been getting cut and greasy with me instead of out geting rich 
Both our points have some validity but I say very strongly that how these cars are being marketed right now drives the prices.

[triple_green]

Let the price run-ups begin

[BigBlockSam]

one of my friends was looking at my 68r/t, he said wow this car all fixed up would be worth like $100000.  you know he saw the bj auction

[69Charger500]

There are no doubt many reasons why this is happening to our hobby, and lots of good points have been made here, in my opinion.

In some respects, i suppose the hobby has benefited from the resto parts that have become available.

I however, still long for the days when I searched the junkyards high and low for that "one" elusive part I needed.  What great fun that was, and what satisfaction from having worked hard to restore something almost nobody else cared about.

Back in '89, I remember walking through Warhoops Auto Salvage (I'm not kidding) and finding a passenger side chrome mirror on a '69 Charger.  I was thrilled, of course, and after i liberated it from the rusty hulk, I walked up front with my treasure to see what the damage would be.  Well, the old guy behind the counter said, those mirrors are pretty hard to find, so I guess it is worth 10 bucks!  Then I noticed, hanging on the wall behind him, a passenger side chrome mirror for a 70 Challenger.  Package deal was $15 for both.

Those were the days, and that is what made it fun for me.

As Ghoste has stated; I have my car.  Thank God for that.  I wish I had not sold my others, but family came first.  Now I understand the importance of a having a constructive hobby, and how rewarding it is to keep the mind and hands busy building a dream...

[Telvis]

I'm glad I have my car. There was a time several months ago where I became discouraged because I didn't think I was ever going to get it painted. I'm glad that I resisted the urge to sell it. I wish I would have resisted the urge to sell my Challenger. In hind sight I should have kept it.

[TruckDriver]

$45,300 I love these
1971 PANTERA DE TOMASO GTS

$62,600
1 of 62 440 six pack 71 GTX's produced

Bill Goldburg just added this one to his collection for $86,000

1963 DODGE 330 LIGHTWEIGHT SUPERSTOCK

$86,000

1970 ROADRUNNER 440 4spd Air Grabber

[Hemidoug]

Bill Goldburg just added this one to his collection for $86,000



http://www.barrett-jackson.com/events/scottsdale/vehicles/cardetail_list.asp?id=181419

Did you see that 70 RR 440-6 car that went for 142,500 ? All I can say is WOW! 

[TruckDriver]

NO! I forgot it started at 4pm my time so I missed the first hour

This one I would asume?


>>>LINK<<<

$130,000 
Black AAR Cuda