Nuclear Plants & Earthquakes

[Old Moparz]

One of the news shows I watch on a regular basis is "The Thom Hartman Show" on FSTV. Today when I went home for lunch I was able to listen to what he had to say about yesterday's 5.8 or 5.9 earthquake in VA. I'm not one to run around saying the sky is falling, but when I see a situation that isn't quite "right" it makes me wonder how mankind has managed to survive for as long as it has.

What was brought up on the show was where the North Anna nuke plant in VA was built, on the fault line of yesterday's quake. He also added that the cooling water that the plant uses is drawn from a man-made lake who's dam is on a list of dams that are in poor condition. The plant was designed to withstand a 6.2 quake, but a 5.8 or 5.9 doesn't seem far off.

So if the quake was a little stronger, damaging both the plant & the dam & possibly allowing the lake to drain, what would happen if the hurricane that's due to hit the area this week hits, & is as powerful as they predict? 


Tom Zeller at Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/23/washington-dc-earthquake-2011_n_934244.html
'The American Society for Civil Engineers' most recent "report card" on national infrastructure lists a number of trouble spots in Virginia -- including 143 "high-hazard" dams, one of which sits on Lake Anna near the North Anna nuclear power plant.

"A high hazard dam is defined as a dam whose failure would cause a loss of life and significant property damage," the group notes on its website.'

The Virginia Section of the American Society of Civil Engineers reported in its "2009 Virginia Infrastructure Report Card" that Virginia's dams get a "D minus," tied with roads for its lowest grade for any infrastructure in Virginia.


Wall Street Journal Article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904875404576528472240850378.html

[Orange_Crush]

I'm not exactly being blasé about this, but here is something to think about.

While a 6.2 does not exactly SEEM much stronger than a 5.9, it actually is MUCH stronger (about 10 times stronger, I believe).  So, in other words, it would take a quake ten times stronger than yesterday's quake to dangerously damage that dam.

Having said that, the state of our nations infrastructure is absolutely shameful, its very hard to believe that we have let it get to this point.

[Orange_Crush]

If you want to read some scary stuff...read about the New Madrid fault that runs through Tennessee, Missouri, Arkansas, and Kentucky.  It has been the source of the strongest earthquakes in the US (8.0 and higher..about 900 times stronger than yesterdays earthquake).  St. Louis, Louisville, and ESPECIALLY Memphis are at risk because there has been no attempt to "earthquake proof" structures in that area.  Its estimated that a 7.7 magnitude quake in the area will kill at least 4,000 people in Memphis....an 8.0 may result in tens of thousands of deaths and many billions of Dollars in damages. 

[Old Moparz]

That's part of the point I was making in saying that we appear to be headed for extinction. Aside from building plants on fault lines & doing other dumb s**t, not maintaining things is another thing we do well.  

As far as I know, all the safety mechanisms in place at several nuke plants worked as they were supposed to. That's a good thing, but it doesn't seem like a big disaster is avoidable in the future. There's the Indian Point plant near me which is also on a fault line. I've known about it for years & don't "worry" over it but it is always in the back of my mind when an event like this happens.

At least I have my travel trailer to drag somewhere if it blows up & a good excuse to not have to fix the house anymore.  

[Orange_Crush]

I'm between TWO plants.  McGuire in NC and Catawba in SC.  right now, if there was an accident at Catawba, I'd be about 4 miles inside the exclusion zone

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Two things -

1 - The Richter scale is logarithmic, so every bump up is a non-linear increase.

2 - The utter destruction of the entire Washington DC area would do more to help this country and this planet than anything else I can think of.

[Orange_Crush]

I'm inside the red circle and the nuclear power plant is where the pointer is...as you can see...if the shit hits the fan, I'll have a nice healthy green glow! 

[Old Moparz]

Two things -

1 - The Richter scale is logarithmic, so every bump up is a non-linear increase.

2 - The utter destruction of the entire Washington DC area would do more to help this country and this planet than anything else I can think of.

After reading No. 2 I'm not so concerned anymore. 

[Johnny SixPack]

Two things -

1 - The Richter scale is logarithmic, so every bump up is a non-linear increase.

2 - The utter destruction of the entire Washington DC area would do more to help this country and this planet than anything else I can think of.

After reading No. 2 I'm not so concerned anymore. 

I'm actually hopin' now. 

[Ponch ®]

Two things -

1 - The Richter scale is logarithmic, so every bump up is a non-linear increase.

2 - The utter destruction of the entire Washington DC area would do more to help this country and this planet than anything else I can think of.

After reading No. 2 I'm not so concerned anymore.  

I'm actually hopin' now.  

I should call Homeland Security on you guys..but ill just wait til you all move in together into a secluded compound in Montana, that way they can grab you all at once.

[moparstuart]

Two things -

1 - The Richter scale is logarithmic, so every bump up is a non-linear increase.

2 - The utter destruction of the entire Washington DC area would do more to help this country and this planet than anything else I can think of.

After reading No. 2 I'm not so concerned anymore.  

I'm actually hopin' now.  

I should call Homeland Security on you guys..but ill just wait til you all move in together into a secluded compound in Montana, that way they can grab you all at once.

[Budnicks]

I'm inside the red circle and the nuclear power plant is where the pointer is...as you can see...if the shit hits the fan, I'll have a nice healthy green glow! 

I hope you have a good stock of Iodine pills, that is 1 of the first things they say to do is take Iodine tablets, I'm not a DR. just remember the powers to be telling me that, (something to do with protecting your kidneys, liver & pancreas I think),when I was working for P.G.&E. at the Dialblo Canyon Nuke plant on the central Calif. coast in the late 70's.... It's built directly over an active fault line, talk about tempting fate... I hated working there, I only had to for a shut down process a couple of time when I worked for Pigs Goats & Elephants while going to school...

[Brock Samson]

 We're not the only ones, The Japanese built four poorly designed Nuke plants within roughly 30 feet of sea level, Read anything about their exclusion zone?.. 

[440]

The tsunami from the earthquake is what crippled the Fukushima plant. Being 30 ft from the ocean probably wasn't the smartest of things either. The emergency efforts to cool the reactors went straight out into the sea, which will be interesting to see the effects in 10 years time when they surface.  

[Old Moparz]

We're not the only ones, The Japanese built four poorly designed Nuke plants within roughly 30 feet of sea level, Read anything about their exclusion zone?.. 

The Japanese government just recently expanded the uninhabitable area around Fukushima that is expected to last for decades.


And this....

http://blogdogcicle.blogspot.com/2011/08/fukushimais-this-china-syndrome.html

[440]

   After seeing that story it seems like they still don't know the extent of the disaster... 

[Johnny SixPack]

Two things -

1 - The Richter scale is logarithmic, so every bump up is a non-linear increase.

2 - The utter destruction of the entire Washington DC area would do more to help this country and this planet than anything else I can think of.

After reading No. 2 I'm not so concerned anymore.  

I'm actually hopin' now.  

I should call Homeland Security on you guys..but ill just wait til you all move in together into a secluded compound in Montana, that way they can grab you all at once.

We're really all just a computer programed psy-ops. 

[Todd Wilson]

Welcome to the jungle baby.............you're gonna die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Todd

[BLUE68RT4ME]

I'm currently working on the first new construction nuke project to be approved in 30+ years.  We are producing a plant to recycle fuel because 97% of a spent fuel rod can be reused.  They have actually approved new plants to start construction as well but they really only approved the breaking of ground and not actual construction, from what I've heard.

I have so many opinions to share about this topic I don't have the time to write them but I will say this, the plant we are building is a structural giant... Meaning, it is so overbuilt it would probably withstand the moon falling from the sky and landing on it.  Seismic testing is done on everything, with the most advanced software and every single machine, pipe, or whatever is welded securely in place to the floor, walls, and ceiling.  It's a pain in my ass to design all of this equipment but after it's done, a fault could open under this building and it would be able to support itself by two corners.  It's the Brick $#it House of Brick $#it Houses.

Anyway, my point is, we have come SO far in so many areas of technology, not only in nukes itself but also construction and structural analysis, to not build new nuke plants and eventually shut down old ones is asinine!  Let's continue to use these outdated POS's and insure problems eventually or build new ones and insure far greater safety.    Do you see my point?  I'm trying to hold back my frustration so I'm keeping this short.

All of our nuke plants were built at least 30 years ago.  They actually did a hell of a job on them.  Most of you will never get to see how damn secure they really are but we can still do so much more.  The stuff I saw happening in Japan concerned me but most of what was reported was laughable.  The people writing most of the articles had no idea of what they were talking about.  And those who did know didn't share everything they should have.  Radiation is unbelievably easy to detect but a detectable amount is far, far away from a harmful amount.  The people in California who were racing to buy iodine for fear of exposure would have seen more of an increase in radiation exposure from the sun if they had gone up to the mountains for the day as opposed to encountering radiation from the Japanese plant breech.  And, the radiation found in the ground near the sight, last I had followed it, was still not dangerous.  I admit not following it much lately because my fears are gone but I remember them reporting radiation being found in cabbage plants near the site.  Well, with the levels they were reporting someone would have had to eat 10 lbs of cabbage a day for a year to be exposed to enough radiation to have exceeded a safe annual exposure rate.  Hell, potassium is radioactive!  That doesn't mean bananas are dangerous but if you ate that many bananas in a year you'd have problems too!  But you probably wouldn't be short on fiber!  

[Orange_Crush]

The tsunami from the earthquake is what crippled the Fukushima plant. Being 30 ft from the ocean probably wasn't the smartest of things either. The emergency efforts to cool the reactors went straight out into the sea, which will be interesting to see the effects in 10 years time when they surface.  

The amount of radiation is small enough....and the ocean is SOOOOOOO massive....that you are better served concerning yourself about getting struck by lighting while sitting on the john.

Rememeber that some of our biggest nuclear bombs were exploded in the ocean....but if that wasn't enough, the U.S. and the USSR dumped large amounts of radioactive waste in the ocean back in the fifties and sixties.  The containers that this stuff was held in have deteriorated away and the stuff is now just laying on the ocean floor exposed....no biggie, really.  Remember that 15 feet of water has as much shielding power as one inch of lead.

[mauve66]

The tsunami from the earthquake is what crippled the Fukushima plant. Being 30 ft from the ocean probably wasn't the smartest of things either. The emergency efforts to cool the reactors went straight out into the sea, which will be interesting to see the effects in 10 years time when they surface.   

The amount of radiation is small enough....and the ocean is SOOOOOOO massive....that you are better served concerning yourself about getting struck by lighting while sitting on the john.

Rememeber that some of our biggest nuclear bombs were exploded in the ocean....but if that wasn't enough, the U.S. and the USSR dumped large amounts of radioactive waste in the ocean back in the fifties and sixties.  The containers that this stuff was held in have deteriorated away and the stuff is now just laying on the ocean floor exposed....no biggie, really.  Remember that 15 feet of water has as much shielding power as one inch of lead.

so thats where Mothra actually came from.......................

[Budnicks]

The tsunami from the earthquake is what crippled the Fukushima plant. Being 30 ft from the ocean probably wasn't the smartest of things either. The emergency efforts to cool the reactors went straight out into the sea, which will be interesting to see the effects in 10 years time when they surface.   

The amount of radiation is small enough....and the ocean is SOOOOOOO massive....that you are better served concerning yourself about getting struck by lighting while sitting on the john.

Rememeber that some of our biggest nuclear bombs were exploded in the ocean....but if that wasn't enough, the U.S. and the USSR dumped large amounts of radioactive waste in the ocean back in the fifties and sixties.  The containers that this stuff was held in have deteriorated away and the stuff is now just laying on the ocean floor exposed....no biggie, really.  Remember that 15 feet of water has as much shielding power as one inch of lead.

so thats where Mothra actually came from.......................

And Godzilla...LOL...

[Old Moparz]

The tsunami from the earthquake is what crippled the Fukushima plant. Being 30 ft from the ocean probably wasn't the smartest of things either. The emergency efforts to cool the reactors went straight out into the sea, which will be interesting to see the effects in 10 years time when they surface.   

The amount of radiation is small enough....and the ocean is SOOOOOOO massive....that you are better served concerning yourself about getting struck by lighting while sitting on the john.

Rememeber that some of our biggest nuclear bombs were exploded in the ocean....but if that wasn't enough, the U.S. and the USSR dumped large amounts of radioactive waste in the ocean back in the fifties and sixties.  The containers that this stuff was held in have deteriorated away and the stuff is now just laying on the ocean floor exposed....no biggie, really.  Remember that 15 feet of water has as much shielding power as one inch of lead.

so thats where Mothra actually came from.......................

And Godzilla...LOL...

And that snookie thing at the Jersey Shore.   

[flyinlow]

I wish the Federal Government would stop bailing out Wall Street and start repairing the roads,bridges,dams powerplants and other infrastructure. I think I read something somewhere about one of the Federal Governments duty's being something about regulating interstate commerce. Maybe help create a job or two.

It is unfortunate that some of the shortcoming of the early Nuclear plants have caused such setbacks to the industry. I think Nuclear power will be an important part of our future energy production. Model T's had faults that caused accidents but automobile production and development did not stop.

I was born in 1957. Is the world more radioactive today or when I was born?  .... When I was born. We just mine the decaying stuff  ,concentrate it and move it around. We live on a planet with thousands of Nuclear weapons,built to destroy. If we shut down the Fission reactors the demands on the remaining energy resources could easily lead to wars using Nuclear weapons.  Which is the bigger threat?

[Budnicks]

I wish the Federal Government would stop bailing out Wall Street and start repairing the roads,bridges,dams powerplants and other infrastructure. I think I read something somewhere about one of the Federal Governments duty's being something about regulating interstate commerce. Maybe help create a job or two.

It is unfortunate that some of the shortcoming of the early Nuclear plants have caused such setbacks to the industry. I think Nuclear power will be an important part of our future energy production. Model T's had faults that caused accidents but automobile production and development did not stop.

I was born in 1957. Is the world more radioactive today or when I was born?  .... When I was born. We just mine the decaying stuff  ,concentrate it and move it around. We live on a planet with thousands of Nuclear weapons,built to destroy. If we shut down the Fission reactors the demands on the remaining energy resources could easily lead to wars using Nuclear weapons.  Which is the bigger threat?

I was born in 59 & we were so worried about the Russians & we were building a bunch of industry & infrastructure to stay ahead of the rest of the world,  now all we produce is lawyers & buy Chinese crap & have completely raped or military...  I would tend to agree completely, start fixing our once fine country & roads bridges & let wall street work out there own problems they always do in the long run...