Almost got it started...

[XP29H9]

So I've been at it some more.  I think I finally got the carb full of gas which i think made a huge improvement.  The choke valve seems to be missing a spring I think?  It's not staying closed so there's not enough back pressure for it to start.  I put a piece of masking tape on it to keep it closed and the engine seemed to want to start easier.  Without the tape, the valve falls wide open.  It's pretty cool.. this is the most life I've ever seen in my charger.


The video shows how it starts but doesn't stay running.  Also*****  I think it may have a rod knocking or a spun bearing.  I talked to someone who knew the original owner and they said that it supposedly had a rod knocking when it was parked last.  If you listen closely in the video right after it starts, there is some knocking going on sounds to me like.  Any other opinions on that?

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYJZ1juqUN4


Here are pictures of both sides of my carburetor.  If ya'll don't mind, take a look at them and tell me if you think you see anything missing.  I had it rebuilt a couple years ago and I think the guy might have kept some of the hardware.  Any input would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks!

Also... I'm an amateur at all of this and I know I'm pretty much not holding my mouth right trying to get this car started.  So, if any of you feel like telling me the steps you think I should take trying to start my charger.. like how many times to pump it, how much to pump it while its turning over,  or really just any input would be great.  I appreciate it!

JT

*Oh, and by the way.. the battery is out of our truck.  I drove it yesterday and it started right up.. so I don't think it's the battery making it turn over slow.  Maybe the starter is finally giving out?

[RallyeMike]

The knock sounds pretty bad. Even if you get it running, I think the engine is coming out for replacement or repair (bummer).

[terrible one]

You're getting there! The first thing I would do before anything else is change the oil if you haven't already. Also, confirm that you get a good shot of gas from the carb when you open it up. You can just put your hand over the front of the carb and use that as your choke instead of the tape (watch out for backfires though.) After fuel the next thing to check for is a good hot spark to all cylinders. A quick check is to pull a plug out and ground it on the engine, then look for a blueish spark. I would still try and get it running even with the knock. I'm telling you, once you drive that thing around the yard for the first time you will be motivated to fix the biggest problems. Also, with the good battery my bet is corrosion at the battery cable terminals either at the posts or at the starter causing excess resistance.

[b5blue]

Check all connections for 12V it's cranking way too slow. dump 10 or 20 cc's of gas down the carb. and see if it kicks off. You really want oil pressure right away so get it cranking good to circulate the oil well first though. Check the carb. mounting nuts one looks like it's not fully tightened. (The one to the right on the first photo.)   

[Tilar]

The engine sounds dry, like you should have pulled plugs and squirted a little oil down in the cylinder walls.  When was the last time this engine ran?

[68 RT]

Looks like you have a manual choke carb? if so you will need to run a choke cable to inside the car. Summit racing has them. This will help your starting problem alot.

[XP29H9]

RallyeMike - yeah it sounds pretty bad to me too.  it's a shame it couldn't have just been perfect internals haha.  it'll be a fun project though.

TerribleOne - Almost but not quite!  It's coming along though!  I have not changed the oil but I added a couple quarts to it.  A mopar friend of mine
                 told me it would probably be fine and that the oil probably hasn't broken down enough to do it harm, and by adding a couple quarts I
                 should be fine.  So thats what I did.     I thought about using my hand as the choke like you're saying buttt  I'm just afraid of
                 those backfires! haha  Really though, hearing the engine fire off and act like its about to start gets my heart racing so much that my
                 hands are almost shaking haha.  Not that I'm scared, just nervous I guess.  I checked for spark before I made the first video of it
                 turning over.  It had a good spark, but it was red/orange... not blue.  I know that means something but I'm not sure what.  Also,
                  those battery cables and cable ends are pretty corroded.  Not the worst I've seen, but not pretty.  I'll definitely look into replacing
                  them.

b5blue - Not sure if I have a voltage meter in the garage but I'll check.  I'll be sure to crank it a bit before trying to start from now on just to prime
           the oil lines. Thanks!  And I didn't even notice how far up that mounting nut is.  I could have swore I double checked all of those.  Thank
            you though!  I will check that one again for sure.

Tilar -  I did pull the plugs and oil up the cylinders before I started all this.  Once about 6 years ago with WD40 and once about 2 months ago with
          a lube/penetrator called "Keno" that a friend of mine hooked me up with.  That was right before I broke the engine loose.  The last time that
          the engine was started was back in 1987 (best guess.)  I know it was turned over and tried to get started in 1994/1995 once.  It never
          started though, just turned over.  As far as I know, this is the most that's been done to it or seen out of it since it was parked back in the
          late 80's.

68 RT - I'm guessing it's a manual choke too.  I figured there would've already been a choke cable in that engine compartment somewhere, but I
          haven't looked for it yet.  I'd say I definitely need one though!  Thanks!  


Looks to me like there should be a little spring on the passenger side of the carb hooked up to the choke and part of the (primaries)?  Here's a pic describing what I'm talking about.  The red circles are around those two places.  

Also, here's a pic of what the charger currently looks like for those of you interested!!


JT

[terrible one]

TerribleOne - Almost but not quite!  It's coming along though!  I have not changed the oil but I added a couple quarts to it.  A mopar friend of mine
                 told me it would probably be fine and that the oil probably hasn't broken down enough to do it harm, and by adding a couple quarts I
                 should be fine.  So thats what I did.     I thought about using my hand as the choke like you're saying buttt  I'm just afraid of
                 those backfires! haha  Really though, hearing the engine fire off and act like its about to start gets my heart racing so much that my
                 hands are almost shaking haha.  Not that I'm scared, just nervous I guess.  I checked for spark before I made the first video of it
                 turning over.  It had a good spark, but it was red/orange... not blue.  I know that means something but I'm not sure what.  Also,
                 those battery cables and cable ends are pretty corroded.  Not the worst I've seen, but not pretty.  I'll definitely look into replacing
                 them.

Trust me I know how you feel! Starting up my new motor for the first time had my heart racing too! Personally I would have done an oil and filter change but I don't know oil that well or anything about how it breaks down so you are probably just fine, especially if you are looking at a tear down soon anyways.

That orange spark is your culprit in my opinion. You are looking for a hot white/blue spark. Basically the orange spark means a lower voltage and although it will jump the plug gap out in the open, it won't be strong enough to make it under engine compression. I'd be willing to bet that once you chased that down (as well as your slow cranking problem) it will fire up!

Not sure about the carb myself, hopefully someone else can chime in on that.

BTW, the Charger looks mean! I wouldn't hesitate to get it mechanically sound and drive it as-is  

[FastbackJon]

Looks like a good project.

I run my cars without the choke plate and just pump the gas a few times before starting them. Works great.

An aftermarket under-dash oil pressure gauge and temp gauge might be worth the small investment.

Also have you changed the cap, rotor, plugs, plugwires, and points? You may have, I just didn't read all of the posts.

I noticed the fan shroud on your car is busted and hitting the fan as it turns over. Watch out for that...

[FastbackJon]

For safety and reliability's sake I would also look for any cracked/broken/missing hoses that might cause something like a fuel or vacuum leak. A vacuum leak can make a car run/idle terribly.

[XP29H9]

terrible one:

Glad to know it's not just me then!   

So what do you think about the spark then?  Any ideas as to where the problem may lie?  If it's getting a spark to the actual plug, then there must be a solid connection between the battery, distributor and plug right?  So, they should be fine (gapping of plugs and points, wires, etc) .. I would think.  It must be the actual power supply to it if a blue spark would signify a stronger current, so, the battery must be the problem?  Or at least the posts/connection/cables? 

Any thoughts?


Thanks by the way!  I like the look of it as is as well.  I think it would look pretty dang cool just down off the jack stands with the polished hubcaps back on there!  I'd definitely drive it as-is if it was mechanically sound! 


JT



FastbackJon:   So that choke staying open all the way while trying to start shouldn't be a problem then?  It just seemed like it had a lot easier of a time firing with it closed.  I never changed the cap or the rotor, but I did install new plugs, wires, and points.  I noticed that busted shroud, thanks!  It looked like it wasn't hitting it enough to cause a problem.  As in, the fan turns and doesn't hit it or barely touches it.  I could imagine that if it was spinning faster it could definitely suck it in and catch it though.  That'd be a bad day real quick.  I tried to take the entire shroud off, but I couldn't get it out, even with bending it where its broke and trying to slide it out around the fan.  So, I figured I'd just go with it.

Missing hoses..... I did see on the carb where there's obviously supposed to be some vacuum hoses hooked up but I didn't think it would keep it from starting?

[terrible one]

terrible one:

Glad to know it's not just me then!   

So what do you think about the spark then?  Any ideas as to where the problem may lie?  If it's getting a spark to the actual plug, then there must be a solid connection between the battery, distributor and plug right?  So, they should be fine (gapping of plugs and points, wires, etc) .. I would think.  It must be the actual power supply to it if a blue spark would signify a stronger current, so, the battery must be the problem?  Or at least the posts/connection/cables? 

Any thoughts?


Thanks by the way!  I like the look of it as is as well.  I think it would look pretty dang cool just down off the jack stands with the polished hubcaps back on there!  I'd definitely drive it as-is if it was mechanically sound! 


JT

I wish I knew more about the ignition system and electronics. Anyway, I would say that yes since you ARE getting spark then that eliminates a lot. I think the first thing I would do would be to pull the coil and either have it tested or swap it out for a known good one. Also John is right, although a choke is nice, especially when freezing cold, many get by without. The carb I use had the whole choke horn milled off and still starts easy with a couple pumps of the gas pedal. The reason it was more willing to fire when you choked it again goes back to the weak spark. In rich conditions the spark can jump the gap easier, hence when you choke it it actually stands a chance and tries to fire. Last, don't underestimate those vacuum leaks. It may not be your main prolem but it will present itself as soon as you get it started. You can get a little kit of vacuum caps to stick over all of the open ports at the parts store for a few bucks.

[b5blue]

Your weak spark may just be from a weak starting amps pulling the voltage low. Mess with it till it cranks strong and fast and you'll know it's getting enough juice to the coil.

[terrible one]

Your weak spark may just be from a weak starting amps pulling the voltage low. Mess with it till it cranks strong and fast and you'll know it's getting enough juice to the coil.

Truth! Should have thought of that myself lol. The starter is probably hogging most of the power and still obviously doesn't have enough

[ACUDANUT]

The knock sounds pretty bad. Even if you get it running, I think the engine is coming out for replacement or repair (bummer).

Yep I agree.  Also, you shouldn't need a choke this time of year....I never need one.

[FLG]

The knock sounds pretty bad. Even if you get it running, I think the engine is coming out for replacement or repair (bummer).

Yep I agree.  Also, you shouldn't need a choke this time of year....I never need one.

I agree, thats why the holley you bought from me had it completely removed LOL!