Hi folks, options for cooling a 440? (Pics!)

[tan top]

Texas car eh .
Are you still located in Texas?

My father lived in Texas. He gave her to me several years ago, and my intention was to find a house with a large garage, fix her up myself (sans bodywork), and give her back to him. Those plans didn't quite work out, he died of congestive heart failure with complications a little over a year ago

awww noo , sorry to hear about your dad !!

was the car sold new in texas ?? if so do you know the name of the dealer ??

[nihil]

Sorry to hear of your fathers passing, it must make having his Charger very special.

awww noo , sorry to hear about your dad !!

was the car sold new in texas ?? if so do you know the name of the dealer ??

Thanks. He loved this car, but I never really saw it as his possession, or just an object, it has always been a part of the family. So for me it's more like taking a person into my care. I know it sounds a bit flaky when people talk about cars having personalities, but if I've ever met a car that had one, this is it (she did not like my mother, at all). While I may technically be the registered owner and driver of this car, I don't really see it as my possession either, she is her own entity, and I'm just fortunate enough to be the one that gets to drive her.

As for where she was sold, I can't be sure 100% as I'm working from memory, but this is how I have it in my head. She was built in Hamtramck, MI, then shipped to a dealer in Sumter S.C.. My father was on leave (Marine Corps) at the time, had a couple dollars to his name, and decided that a brand new 1968 Dodge Charger R/T was the car he had to have. He stumbled across a dealer who had special ordered this car to be a demo/showroom/crowd drawing car, and spent hours just trying to get him to sell it so soon after getting it in stock. Even better, he managed to talk him down on the price. They made an agreement, went to fill out the paperwork, and the dealer asked him how much of it he would like to finance (dealer thought he would make up the bargained price in loan fees/interest). My dad wrote him a check for roughly $3,500, and went to grab the keys. The dealer at this point decided that deal wasn't going to fly and started backpeddling. My father, being a 6'3", 200lb trained killing machine on leave from his beloved Corps, did not care for that one bit. He stood up, approached the dealer, and rapidly convinced him that following through with the agreement was in everyones best interest.

That's about all I have from memory, so I'll make up an ending. He took the keys, thanked the dealer, did a massive burnout after pulling out of the lot, and drove off into the sunset blaring some good old rock and roll on the (then) fancy new sound system in his dream car.

[tan top]

Sorry to hear of your fathers passing, it must make having his Charger very special.

awww noo , sorry to hear about your dad !!

was the car sold new in texas ?? if so do you know the name of the dealer ??

Thanks. He loved this car, but I never really saw it as his possession, or just an object, it has always been a part of the family. So for me it's more like taking a person into my care. I know it sounds a bit flaky when people talk about cars having personalities, but if I've ever met a car that had one, this is it (she did not like my mother, at all). While I may technically be the registered owner and driver of this car, I don't really see it as my possession either, she is her own entity, and I'm just fortunate enough to be the one that gets to drive her.

As for where she was sold, I can't be sure 100% as I'm working from memory, but this is how I have it in my head. She was built in Hamtramck, MI, then shipped to a dealer in Sumter S.C.. My father was on leave (Marine Corps) at the time, had a couple dollars to his name, and decided that a brand new 1968 Dodge Charger R/T was the car he had to have. He stumbled across a dealer who had special ordered this car to be a demo/showroom/crowd drawing car, and spent hours just trying to get him to sell it so soon after getting it in stock. Even better, he managed to talk him down on the price. They made an agreement, went to fill out the paperwork, and the dealer asked him how much of it he would like to finance (dealer thought he would make up the bargained price in loan fees/interest). My dad wrote him a check for roughly $3,500, and went to grab the keys. The dealer at this point decided that deal wasn't going to fly and started backpeddling. My father, being a 6'3", 200lb trained killing machine on leave from his beloved Corps, did not care for that one bit. He stood up, approached the dealer, and rapidly convinced him that following through with the agreement was in everyones best interest.

That's about all I have from memory, so I'll make up an ending. He took the keys, thanked the dealer, did a massive burnout after pulling out of the lot, and drove off into the sunset blaring some good old rock and roll on the (then) fancy new sound system in his dream car.

  cool thanks for sharing the story !! love reading about this kind of stuff from back in the day   

[BananaDan]

Great story, and good luck with the restoration.  If you end up having to replace the radiator, this is where I got mine.  And the above comments are correct, they are not cheap.

http://www.hemiradiators.com/

Dan

[nihil]

Any thoughts on the YearOne reproduction radiators? They're having a fathers day sale, 30% off with the code FATHER11, and $270 for a replacement 26" is sounding pretty good right about now. Particularly considering I've already got ~$2k in the cart.

Hurried responses greatly appreciated, I'm not far from clicking 'proceed to checkout'.

Edit: This is the one I'm looking at:

http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?hid=116AB16257

[R6red4spd69RT]

Here's some sample pics of RR-1 on 68 Chargers: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=55133.0

I like it!

[nihil]

Here's some sample pics of RR-1 on 68 Chargers: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=55133.0

I like it!

Awesome! Absolutely gorgeous. Speaking of this color, it seems safe to assume that it's fairly rare? It's definitely not one I see a lot of.


In other news, lots of money later, I should have my cooling issues sorted out. Along with every rubber piece I could find, I ordered a Milodon high volume water pump, Milodon high flow thermostats in both 160° and 180° versions, and the YearOne reproduction 26" radiator. The only complaints I saw were about the paint flaking and not having the correct stamped numbers. I can paint it and I'm not going to be anal about stamps.

Next up, disc brakes and suspension...

[hemi68charger]

Here's some sample pics of RR-1 on 68 Chargers: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=55133.0

I like it!

Awesome! Absolutely gorgeous. Speaking of this color, it seems safe to assume that it's fairly rare? It's definitely not one I see a lot of.


In other news, lots of money later, I should have my cooling issues sorted out. Along with every rubber piece I could find, I ordered a Milodon high volume water pump, Milodon high flow thermostats in both 160° and 180° versions, and the YearOne reproduction 26" radiator. The only complaints I saw were about the paint flaking and not having the correct stamped numbers. I can paint it and I'm not going to be anal about stamps.

Next up, disc brakes and suspension...

RR-1 is definitely has a low production count.. Burgundy is really a good looking car. Do not, if you still have it, get rid of the original radiator. I'm surprised for the amount of money you bought the reproduction rad. for you couldn't fix or restore yours (if it's the original 2898047).

Good luck on the project and it's very cool you're able to keep your Dad's car. I wasn't able to find and keep Dad's, but I got something like it...

[john108]

Hi
Looking good!
I bought my '68 RT right out of the showroom, shortly after I came out of the service.  It is also burgandy but with a black vinyl roof.  I have sanded and epoxy/sealer primed most of the car but inside of the trunk has the original color.  I am also presently in the process of restoring it, except that many other things have been delaying working on it.  I have new headliner, carpet, upolstry, bucket seat inserts, plastic trim, etc. sitting in boxes in a bedroom.
I will be monitoring your progress as I will probably be repeating much of what you do.
John

[nihil]

RR-1 is definitely has a low production count.. Burgundy is really a good looking car. Do not, if you still have it, get rid of the original radiator. I'm surprised for the amount of money you bought the reproduction rad. for you couldn't fix or restore yours (if it's the original 2898047).

Good luck on the project and it's very cool you're able to keep your Dad's car. I wasn't able to find and keep Dad's, but I got something like it...

The original radiator is still in it, but I gave it a good look with a video borescope and it's filthy in there. For the price, I figure a drop-in replacement will do the job for now. I need to get her mechanically sound before I drop her off to get the bodywork done. Local shops were quoting in the $300-$350 range to recore this one. I'm going to keep it around, but it will be stored, much like I'm going to do with the engine in "phase 2". The #'s matching block gets removed, oiled, and put in a crate. Then, a built motor I wont mind blowing up gets dropped in to take some abuse.

Hi
Looking good!
I bought my '68 RT right out of the showroom, shortly after I came out of the service.  It is also burgandy but with a black vinyl roof.  I have sanded and epoxy/sealer primed most of the car but inside of the trunk has the original color.  I am also presently in the process of restoring it, except that many other things have been delaying working on it.  I have new headliner, carpet, upolstry, bucket seat inserts, plastic trim, etc. sitting in boxes in a bedroom.
I will be monitoring your progress as I will probably be repeating much of what you do.
John

I know how that goes. I have loads of parts in "to do" piles around here. Mostly Charger and Audi, the Jeep is pretty much done, and I'm thinking about trading it in on a Pinzgauer. Good to see more burgundy Chargers out there.

Though, something that annoys me, is that one of the things people regularly end up saying to me is "you should paint it <whatever their favorite color is>, or 'like the General Lee'". Had one guy get all butthurt when I told him to paint his shitbox (fox body mustang I think it was) whatever color he liked, and to avoid parking it next to my car.

Assuming I can clean up the taillight bezels to at least fair condition, front seat covers and foam are the last of the pretty bits I need, but the prices at YO were insane. I'm going to find a local upholstery shop and see what they can do.

[elacruze]

I have the original 26" radiator in mine, which was recored with 3 rows back in '03. Now that the engine has settled down (~2000 miles) I have no heat issues. I was out idling in bumper to bumper traffic Saturday, 85*F temps and sunny with the A/C running and never got over 210. After I get the timing sorted, I expect it to stay within 5* of the thermostat in any case. I had this same radiator in front of my .509" cammed 11:1 440 and never had any heat issue. The idea that stock radiators are less effective than aluminum is false, as I've said many times on this forum. A brand-new high-tech aluminum radiator may have some small advantage in ultimate efficiency in a laboratory, but if you need that theoretical improvement to keep your coolant under the radiator cap, you have much more important concerns than the difference in radiators.

[nihil]

I have the original 26" radiator in mine, which was recored with 3 rows back in '03. Now that the engine has settled down (~2000 miles) I have no heat issues. I was out idling in bumper to bumper traffic Saturday, 85*F temps and sunny with the A/C running and never got over 210. After I get the timing sorted, I expect it to stay within 5* of the thermostat in any case. I had this same radiator in front of my .509" cammed 11:1 440 and never had any heat issue. The idea that stock radiators are less effective than aluminum is false, as I've said many times on this forum. A brand-new high-tech aluminum radiator may have some small advantage in ultimate efficiency in a laboratory, but if you need that theoretical improvement to keep your coolant under the radiator cap, you have much more important concerns than the difference in radiators.

If I understand it correctly (and please correct me if I have it wrong), brass has better heat transfer than aluminum for any given mass, but for aluminum the transfer is faster than brass. This is why old style brass rads use less cores than aluminum for effectively the same heat exchange rates. A brass rad designed like an aluminum rad will suck at cooling, and an aluminum rad designed to brass specs will suck. As long as each is designed properly for the material they are constructed of, they should be about equal, except the aluminum unit will be lighter.

I ordered an original style reproduction radiator to replace mine. I'm going to pull the rad and water pump, flush out the block with a garden hose, then drop the high flow Milodon pump, high flow Milodon 180deg thermostat, and new repro radiator in. Hopefully that will take care of my cooling problems.

[elacruze]

I have the original 26" radiator in mine, which was recored with 3 rows back in '03. Now that the engine has settled down (~2000 miles) I have no heat issues. I was out idling in bumper to bumper traffic Saturday, 85*F temps and sunny with the A/C running and never got over 210. After I get the timing sorted, I expect it to stay within 5* of the thermostat in any case. I had this same radiator in front of my .509" cammed 11:1 440 and never had any heat issue. The idea that stock radiators are less effective than aluminum is false, as I've said many times on this forum. A brand-new high-tech aluminum radiator may have some small advantage in ultimate efficiency in a laboratory, but if you need that theoretical improvement to keep your coolant under the radiator cap, you have much more important concerns than the difference in radiators.

If I understand it correctly (and please correct me if I have it wrong), brass has better heat transfer than aluminum for any given mass, but for aluminum the transfer is faster than brass. This is why old style brass rads use less cores than aluminum for effectively the same heat exchange rates. A brass rad designed like an aluminum rad will suck at cooling, and an aluminum rad designed to brass specs will suck. As long as each is designed properly for the material they are constructed of, they should be about equal, except the aluminum unit will be lighter.

I ordered an original style reproduction radiator to replace mine. I'm going to pull the rad and water pump, flush out the block with a garden hose, then drop the high flow Milodon pump, high flow Milodon 180deg thermostat, and new repro radiator in. Hopefully that will take care of my cooling problems.

Aluminum transfers heat across the metal faster than brass, but since both are so thin in a radiator it's an insignificant difference. The limitation to a radiator is not the material, but the frontal area and to a lesser extent the total surface area and the rate of heat absorption of the air crossing the core. Equal areas, equal cooling. Most Modern radiators have a better design, which gives more surface area both to the air and to the coolant, and happen to be made of aluminum-so the assumption is made that aluminum cools better. Correlation is not Causation, however.
My opinion is and will remain that if you have a stock radiator and a heat problem, a similar sized aluminum radiator with no other changes will not solve the problem. Of course, when somebody installs their new aluminum radiator they take the time to flush the engine block, install a new thermostat and hoses, and perhaps a new water pump then credit the radiator alone with the improvement.

[bobs66440]

I have the original 26" radiator in mine, which was recored with 3 rows back in '03. Now that the engine has settled down (~2000 miles) I have no heat issues. I was out idling in bumper to bumper traffic Saturday, 85*F temps and sunny with the A/C running and never got over 210. After I get the timing sorted, I expect it to stay within 5* of the thermostat in any case. I had this same radiator in front of my .509" cammed 11:1 440 and never had any heat issue. The idea that stock radiators are less effective than aluminum is false, as I've said many times on this forum. A brand-new high-tech aluminum radiator may have some small advantage in ultimate efficiency in a laboratory, but if you need that theoretical improvement to keep your coolant under the radiator cap, you have much more important concerns than the difference in radiators.

If I understand it correctly (and please correct me if I have it wrong), brass has better heat transfer than aluminum for any given mass, but for aluminum the transfer is faster than brass. This is why old style brass rads use less cores than aluminum for effectively the same heat exchange rates. A brass rad designed like an aluminum rad will suck at cooling, and an aluminum rad designed to brass specs will suck. As long as each is designed properly for the material they are constructed of, they should be about equal, except the aluminum unit will be lighter.

I ordered an original style reproduction radiator to replace mine. I'm going to pull the rad and water pump, flush out the block with a garden hose, then drop the high flow Milodon pump, high flow Milodon 180deg thermostat, and new repro radiator in. Hopefully that will take care of my cooling problems.

My opinion is and will remain that if you have a stock radiator and a heat problem, a similar sized aluminum radiator with no other changes will not solve the problem. Of course, when somebody installs their new aluminum radiator they take the time to flush the engine block, install a new thermostat and hoses, and perhaps a new water pump then credit the radiator alone with the improvement.

I agree.

[aone415]

I have run a big griffin on the last two motor/eng improvements  :2thumbs:after spending to much money re-coring an original some years ago spending about the same money.. but they are not the same cooling .   I doubt I will ever run an original again as I live where it is hot and I like to drive mine and worry less at cruzs and around town.  Originality is overrated at that spot in my opinion....

Yup same here... and the car runs ICE COLD

[70 Charger RT]

Give a read to this thread.  http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60599.0.html
A lot of Chargers are overheating because of the water pump.  It's a good read.

[nihil]

Give a read to this thread.  http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60599.0.html
A lot of Chargers are overheating because of the water pump.  It's a good read.

Read that one the other day, good read. I had also heard other bad things about the 440source pump/housing. I'm keeping the stock housing and sticking a high volume Milodon pump in there.