Wow. Retro is definitely in the air. "08 Camaro concept for Detroit AS......>>>

[Shakey]

I think the big push in the retro movement is the people wanting to drive a "classic" car without having to deal with all the typical old car problems.

There was / is a company in AZ that takes classic cars and restores them however they include modern FI and electronic systems for a more reliable car that can be used as a daily driver.  The car has the look of a classic until you open the hood.

[694spdRT]

I think the big push in the retro movement is the people wanting to drive a "classic" car without having to deal with all the typical old car problems.

There was / is a company in AZ that takes classic cars and restores them however they include modern FI and electronic systems for a more reliable car that can be used as a daily driver.  The car has the look of a classic until you open the hood.

The drivetrain is a big thing and you do see a lot of cars with modern powerplants but, people still want all the new car conveniences like A/C, cruise, power seats, power windows, 600 disk CD changers , bodies that don't fall apart after one or two winters for us Northern people, etc., etc.  in their daily drivers.

[hemihead]

The original Barracuda was never a serious target for the pony car wars against the Rustang. The E body concept kept getting redlighted by designers/beancounters/brass until it was much too late to be a real contender to make a difference in Chrysler sales.

I myself consder the Barracudas as contenders when you compare them to the first Rustangs. For instance 273 vs. 289 and a New body on a Valiant chassis vs. a New body on a Falcon chassis?I think that Ford made more noise about it.

I think the big push in the retro movement is the people wanting to drive a "classic" car without having to deal with all the typical old car problems.

I think it would be wise if you want all the power toys just to buy a new car and stay out of the collector cars.Retros are a great thing for non -automotive types.

There was / is a company in AZ that takes classic cars and restores them however they include modern FI and electronic systems for a more reliable car that can be used as a daily driver.  The car has the look of a classic until you open the hood.

The drivetrain is a big thing and you do see a lot of cars with modern powerplants but, people still want all the new car conveniences like A/C, cruise, power seats, power windows, 600 disk CD changers , bodies that don't fall apart after one or two winters for us Northern people, etc., etc.  in their daily drivers.

[Brock Samson]

"I myself consder the Barracudas as contenders when you compare them to the first Rustangs. For instance 273 vs. 289 and a New body on a Valiant chassis vs. a New body on a Falcon chassis?I think that Ford made more noise about"

the baracuda was more of a new roof on a valient body...
 
Ford Nailed it with the Mustang,.. it's was a truly exciting car when introduced,.. (I was there) I dont think The bacaruda had a tenth the appeal... IMHO.

[TheGhost]

"I myself consder the Barracudas as contenders when you compare them to the first Rustangs. For instance 273 vs. 289 and a New body on a Valiant chassis vs. a New body on a Falcon chassis?I think that Ford made more noise about"

the baracuda was more of a new roof on a valient body...
 
Ford Nailed it with the Mustang,.. it's was a truly exciting car when introduced,.. (I was there) I dont think The bacaruda had a tenth the appeal... IMHO.

Yes, the Barracuda was basically a fastback Valiant, untill 66.  I'd still take a Barracuda over any Mustang of the same year, though.  Except for 69, when I'd take a Boss 302 ONLY over one.

[TK73]

'60s Mustang/Cougar, Camaro/Firebird, '70s E-bodies... all Pony cars.  GM enterest the Pony game 2 1/5 years late and Mopar 5 1/5 years late.

TK I believe the Barracuda beat the Rustang to start the Pony Wars.Just an observation.( Said Pleasantly) 

Sorry kind Sir; "Mopar myth".  The original Barracudas are not "pony cars"...

Taking a little "Google" trip led me to this:

"The Mustang provided the template for the new class of automobiles. Although it was based on the platform of the Falcon, it had a unique body (offered as a hardtop coupe and a convertible) with distinctive, "long hood, short deck" proportions. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony-car



Granted the Barracude debuted 2 weeks prior to the Mustang, there is this to consider:

"The Barracuda was not a direct response to the Mustang, which had not yet debuted (although Chrysler was certainly aware of the upcoming model), but a low-cost way to expand the sporty appeal of the Valiant. Chrysler's precarious financial situation meant that the Barracuda was compromised, with insufficient distinction from the Valiant and styling that drew mixed reactions; its sales were a fraction of the Mustang's."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony-car



Mopar guys might not like this:

"Initially General Motors believed that the restyled 1965 Corvair would be an adequate challenger for the Mustang, but when it became clear that the Corvair itself was doomed, the more conventional Chevrolet Camaro was introduced, going on sale for the 1967 model year, at the time the Mustang was entering its second generation. They were presently joined by the Camaro-based Pontiac Firebird, the Mercury Cougar, and, in 1968, the AMC Javelin. Dodge joined the party belatedly with the 1970 Dodge Challenger, an enlarged version of the Barracuda."

And yes, in my life I have been a "Chevy guy", owned a nice '66 Ford Custom and became a "Mopar guy" about 5 years ago... let the name-calling begin!! YEE-HAW!!

[Afflyer]

I know a few guys that have those brand new "retro" Mustangs and they've told me that when the new Challenger comes out- they're trading in their Mustangs for them!!!!!

No kidding!

Bradley 

[TK73]

I know a few guys that have those brand new "retro" Mustangs and they've told me that when the new Challenger comes out- they're trading in their Mustangs for them!!!!!

No kidding!

Bradley 

Had DCX put out a decent competitor to the Retro 'Stang they may have sold to these guys in the first place.

[694spdRT]

I think the big push in the retro movement is the people wanting to drive a "classic" car without having to deal with all the typical old car problems.


I think it would be wise if you want all the power toys just to buy a new car and stay out of the collector cars.Retros are a great thing for non -automotive types.

 

Hmm, I really hope this statement is a general one and not directed at me. If you are saying retro cars appeal to people that like to drive a cool car but, either don't want to or don't know how to work on them then we are in agreement.

This thread is about the new retro car design movement. The point I am trying to make is the majority of modern "muscle car" buyers do not want to "rough it" like the old days....especially on an everyday basis. They want a car that has classic design features but, is loaded with fancy options, gets good fuel economy, has tons of power, and doesn't break down. I think the argument on whether retro designs succeed is rather pointless. There are 200,000 reasons and counting out there called the 2005 Mustang that prove that point. That is what DCX has, hopefully, realized with the concept Challenger....we shall see.

[TheGhost]

CHEVROLET CAMARO CONCEPT:
CAPTURING THE TIMELESS SPIRIT OF CAMARO

-    Thoroughly modern interpretation of the classic sport coupe
-    Dramatic design, responsive performance
   
DETROIT – Combining dramatic design and exciting performance, the Chevrolet Camaro Concept recaptures the spirit of one of the most popular sport coupes of all time and redefines the Camaro for new generations of fans.

The Camaro Concept embodies the performance and passion that have made first-generation Camaros some of the most sought-after collector cars, updating the formula with a fuel-efficient powertrain, sophisticated chassis and contemporary design execution. The goal is to make the sport coupe relevant to younger enthusiasts while retaining its appeal to its current fans.

"Millions of people of all ages fell in love with the Camaro for all of the right reasons," said Ed Welburn, GM vice president, global design (pictured). "Camaros were beautiful to look at and offered performance that could rival expensive European GTs. Yet they were practical enough to drive every day and priced within the reach of many new car buyers."

Though only a show car at this point, the Camaro Concept is intended to explore customer reaction to design and engineering elements that might lead to an all-new version of the Camaro.

The long hood, short deck and wide stance of the Camaro Concept leave no doubt that it is a serious performance car. Those looks are backed up by a 400-horsepower aluminum small-bock V-8, a six-speed manual transmission, and a sophisticated chassis with four-wheel independent suspension.

Like its forebears, the Camaro Concept would be practical enough for everyday use. It features fuel-saving features like Active Fuel Management™ cylinder deactivation technology, yielding highway fuel economy of 30 mpg or better. Its overall size is a comfortable fit for city streets and suburban parking lots, and its back seat provides occasional seating for two adults.

Lean, muscular design

Because of Camaro's powerful heritage, the GM Design team chose a theme that pays homage to the original Camaro, while being instantly recognizable as an all-new car.

Said Bob Boniface, director of the Warren Advanced Design Studio, "The fact that the Camaro has been out of production for a number of years made it particularly important that the Camaro Concept honors the Camaro heritage in the right way."

The 1969 Camaro, considered by many to be the best first-generation design, was a significant inspiration. But as GM design teams in Warren, Mich., worked on alternatives for the Camaro Concept, they also turned to the latest Corvette and to aircraft like the YF-22, seeking a design that encompasses the spirit that made the 1969 Camaro great, but interprets that spirit in a fresh, exciting way.

"The overall proportions, long hood and powerful fender forms say, 'This is a front-engine, rear-wheel drive performance vehicle,' " said Tom Peters, design director, rear-wheel drive performance cars. The prominent front grille and hood bulge hint at the power of the Corvette-derived V-8 engine. Large wheels and tires, exposed high-performance brakes and prominent fender shapes signal that the Camaro Concept has the handling and braking to go with the powertrain.

The cockpit of the Camaro nestles between sharply defined fender forms, a design element inspired by fighter planes and the new Corvette. And like any high-performance vehicle, the clean, purposeful design is integral to the aesthetic. "The Camaro Concept isn't just a styled shape," said Peters. "The design incorporates what the vehicle needs to perform to its optimum level."

The same purposeful design is reflected in the interior of the Camaro Concept. The gauges and splash of orange trim hint at classic first-generation Camaros, but the overall design and execution reflect the no-nonsense functionality that drivers expect from a high-performance Chevrolet sports car.

Performance for the real world
The Camaro Concept features the latest generation of GM's legendary small-block V-8.  The 6.0-liter LS2 engine features an aluminum block and heads for light weight, and Active Fuel Management™, which shuts off four cylinders to save fuel when the engine is lightly loaded. This concept version of the LS2 is rated at 400 horsepower, yet it could also deliver more than 30 mpg at highway speeds.

The Camaro Concept's six-speed manual transmission provides a wide spread of ratios for aggressive acceleration off the line, confident passing and merging and efficient highway cruising.

Modern sports cars are about more than just straight-line speed, so the Camaro Concept features a sophisticated rear-wheel drive chassis. Its independent front and rear suspension features progressive-rate springs and gas-pressurized dampers. Four-wheel vented disc brakes with 14-inch rotors provide confident stopping under all conditions.

Enhancing both the performance and appearance of the Camaro Concept are unique five-spoke cast alloy wheels, 21 inches in the front and 22 inches in the rear.   

An American icon
Designed in the mid-1960s, the first-generation Camaro captured the optimism of an era.  The Baby Boomers were in their teens, rock-and-roll and Motown ruled the airwaves, and American culture was sweeping the globe.

Like the Impala, Chevelle and Sting Ray, the new Camaro showcased Chevy's strength of bringing stylish, high-quality cars to a mainstream audience. Its dramatic proportions and graceful lines recalled both the Corvette and the Italian Gran Turismo cars of the era. And its powertrain lineup, which soon included both the potent Z-28 small block and big block 396s and 427s, gave the Camaro the performance to go with its looks.

But what really made the Camaro an American icon was that it was accessible to millions. Chevy sold more than 699,000 Camaros in its first three years. So for every Z-28 taking the checkered flag at the track, there were thousands of less exotic Camaros cruising the drive-ins, picking up the groceries, or taking the family on vacation.

"The Camaro Concept is designed to have that same broad appeal, with unmistakable style, spirit and performance," said Welburn.


SPECIFICATIONS – CHEVROLET CAMARO CONCEPT
Vehicle type:    two-door, four-passenger rear-wheel drive sport coupe
Wheelbase (in / mm):    110.5 / 2806
Length (in / mm):    186.2 / 4730
Width (in / mm):    79.6 / 2022
Height (in / mm):    53 / 1344
Track (in / mm):    63.8 / 1620 front; 63.3 / 1607 rear
Engine:    6.0-L V-8 LS-2, 400 hp / 298 kw, with Active Fuel Management™
Transmission:    six-speed manual T56
Suspension:    four-wheel independent: MacPherson strut front, multilink rear, progressive rate coil springs, gas-pressurized dampers
Brakes:    four-wheel disc, 15" rotors with four-piston calipers
Wheels:    cast aluminum, 21" front, 22" rear
Tires:    275/30R21 front, 305/30R22 rear

[Johnny SixPack]

I think the big push in the retro movement is the people wanting to drive a "classic" car without having to deal with all the typical old car problems.


I think it would be wise if you want all the power toys just to buy a new car and stay out of the collector cars.Retros are a great thing for non -automotive types.

Hmm, I really hope this statement is a general one and not directed at me. If you are saying retro cars appeal to people that like to drive a cool car but, either don't want to or don't know how to work on them then we are in agreement.

This thread is about the new retro car design movement. The point I am trying to make is the majority of modern "muscle car" buyers do not want to "rough it" like the old days....especially on an everyday basis. They want a car that has classic design features but, is loaded with fancy options, gets good fuel economy, has tons of power, and doesn't break down. I think the argument on whether retro designs succeed is rather pointless. There are 200,000 reasons and counting out there called the 2005 Mustang that prove that point. That is what DCX has, hopefully, realized with the concept Challenger....we shall see.

That's a good point.

Many of the people these cars are going to be aimed at are baby boomers who had these cars, or at least dreamed of owning them, in the past, but are at a point that they don't want to have to (or can afford not to) go through a check list when preparing to take a leisurely Sunday drive (or any drive for that matter) and other such headaches commonly associated with owning a classic car.

They want 18-20 mpg, reliable heat & A/C, CD players, leather seating, frontal impact points, SRS, ABS, AWD, ATC, XYZ, etc., etc, but most of all they want a car that embodies the freedom they tie to these classic nameplates.

A chance to have their very own Challenger/Charger/Camaro/GTO, but all wrapped up in a nice and reliable modern car.

Retro sells, that's a given.

Look at the Mustang, the sense of anticipation regarding the possible future of the Challenger and Camaro, and the chance at a revival of the Pony Car Wars.

Retro has been in for quite some time (clothes, music, design) and just now are the 'American' auto manufacturers really ramping up to milk this tide of memory.

[TK73]

That interior is CRAZY!!  I like it...

[5.9_Liter_Grand_Cherokee]

HMMMM, Am I starting to see a pattern here.  1964 1/2 (1965) Mustang, 1968 Camaro, 1970 Challenger.  2005 Mustang, 2008 Camaro, and 2010 Challenger.  Damn, Late Again. 

[ChargerBill]

Bill, show me where Ghoste said that the old Challenger and Camaro look alike?  I doubt it's in any thread I look at, since most of the ones I look at, I post in.  And half of those that I don't post in, I just skim looking for something interesting.

Asked and answered...

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,8049.0.html

Please note that Ghoste's post was a full day BEFORE yours:

[ChargerBill]

I have to be honest guys...I'm REALLY liking the edgy lines of that Camaro concept...and it looks even better in silver!

[Brock Samson]

i agree Bil that Camaro is alot edgier then the Chally...

just as the '70 Chally was alot edgier then the '69 Camaro...

[TheGhost]

That interior is CRAZY!!  I like it...

Easily the best part of the car, especially the gauges.  They remind me of the gauges in the late 50s Imperials.


Oh, and, Bill?  I never looked at that thread.

[Johnny SixPack]

i agree Bil that Camaro is alot edgier then the Chally...

just as the '70 Chally was alot edgier then the '69 Camaro...

Yep, GM is showing some teeth here, and it's about f'n time for them!

They had their Little Big Horn with the GTO, and I doubt they'll go down that path again.

DCX is just getting started in their massacre (i.e. the soon to 'bee' defilement of the Super Bee nameplate).

I also agree that while the Challenger is a good looking car, they really could have pushed the envelope on it.

But instead it comes off feeling slightly reserved in the overall impact department.

Where as the Camaro grabs you, and sinks that toothy smile right in.

[Brock Samson]

I can't wait for the new Javelin! 

[Johnny SixPack]

I can't wait for the new Javelin! 

Ooooo, a new Matador would sell like Jenna J.'s hot pants.

[hemihead]

Well , you so called Mopar guys can do as you wish, and I mean no offense to anyone,but I will never,never and never have been seen at a GM dealership.Cut me, I bleed Mopar!If DCX isn't building what I like when I go to buy, I just wait until they do.I still believe in brand loyalty. 

[TruckDriver]

I never been hooked on one brand of car. Every U.S. maker has made cool cars at one time or another. They all need gas/brakes/oil to run and stop. So, whats the difference. I have owned almost every make of U.S. car in my time so far, and I have owned Fords, Chevys, Mopars that were all good, and some that were POS. Back to the Camero, the more I look at it, the more I like it. I LOVE that interiour though! 

[Shakey]

I think the big push in the retro movement is the people wanting to drive a "classic" car without having to deal with all the typical old car problems.


I think it would be wise if you want all the power toys just to buy a new car and stay out of the collector cars.Retros are a great thing for non -automotive types.

 

Hmm, I really hope this statement is a general one and not directed at me. If you are saying retro cars appeal to people that like to drive a cool car but, either don't want to or don't know how to work on them then we are in agreement.

This thread is about the new retro car design movement. The point I am trying to make is the majority of modern "muscle car" buyers do not want to "rough it" like the old days....especially on an everyday basis. They want a car that has classic design features but, is loaded with fancy options, gets good fuel economy, has tons of power, and doesn't break down. I think the argument on whether retro designs succeed is rather pointless. There are 200,000 reasons and counting out there called the 2005 Mustang that prove that point. That is what DCX has, hopefully, realized with the concept Challenger....we shall see.

There was a thread here a few weeks ago and I can't recall the numbers but very, very few people here use their Charger as a daily driver, including me.

I'd like to have my '69 Charger and a new Challenger.  Guess which one would be a daily driver?  If I had the money, I would have a '69 Charger made with all of the creature comforts including and upgraded fuel and electronic system as well as a modern suspension.  This would be my daily driver.  I would also keep my bone stock '69 for weekends.

[Shakey]

Retro sells, that's a given.

Retro has been in for quite some time (clothes, music, design) and just now are the 'American' auto manufacturers really ramping up to milk this tide of memory.

I wonder if retro porn would do well?   

[694spdRT]

I think the big push in the retro movement is the people wanting to drive a "classic" car without having to deal with all the typical old car problems.


I think it would be wise if you want all the power toys just to buy a new car and stay out of the collector cars.Retros are a great thing for non -automotive types.

 

Hmm, I really hope this statement is a general one and not directed at me. If you are saying retro cars appeal to people that like to drive a cool car but, either don't want to or don't know how to work on them then we are in agreement.

This thread is about the new retro car design movement. The point I am trying to make is the majority of modern "muscle car" buyers do not want to "rough it" like the old days....especially on an everyday basis. They want a car that has classic design features but, is loaded with fancy options, gets good fuel economy, has tons of power, and doesn't break down. I think the argument on whether retro designs succeed is rather pointless. There are 200,000 reasons and counting out there called the 2005 Mustang that prove that point. That is what DCX has, hopefully, realized with the concept Challenger....we shall see.

There was a thread here a few weeks ago and I can't recall the numbers but very, very few people here use their Charger as a daily driver, including me.

I'd like to have my '69 Charger and a new Challenger.  Guess which one would be a daily driver?  If I had the money, I would have a '69 Charger made with all of the creature comforts including and upgraded fuel and electronic system as well as a modern suspension.  This would be my daily driver.  I would also keep my bone stock '69 for weekends.

My thoughts exactly Shakey.