My basket case R/T

[MaximRecoil]

I'm not an expert by any means but I know what it cost to build my Mustang from the ground up and it wasn't anywhere near the condition that your Charger is in. It looks like you're going to have $15,000-$20,000 for the bodywork and paint alone. Then, factor in a minimum of $10,000 for the rebuilding of the engine, transmission, and rearend. From there, you've still got to restore the entire braking system, cooling system, electrical system, and interior. Of course, this doesn't even take into account the items that are missing like the glass or dashboard, or the restoration of the Chrome and trim. I'm guessing that you're going to need somewhere around $50,000 to get it into the condition that it needs to be, and that's if you do it all by yourself. That's a lot of money for sure.

Well, it isn't missing the dashboard or glass, though the dashboard isn't pretty. I don't know why it would cost $15,000-$20,000 for the bodywork and paint alone if you did it all yourself and you already have all the major replacement panels, assuming you're not channeling Roger Gibson while doing it. $15,000-$20,000 buys an awful lot of welding wire, shielding gas, sandpaper, filler, sheet metal, primer, and paint.

The engine, transmission, and rearend do not necessarily have to be rebuilt. The engine's last known condition was running; and nothing is known to be wrong with the transmission and rearend. Of course, if you want the engine to look good/correct and have the right amount of power, at the very least it needs to be converted to "Magnum" status (different camshaft, exhaust manifolds, and air cleaner cover ... anything else?) and be detailed.

The other stuff you mentioned can certainly add up quickly though, but the body work would be about the cheapest part assuming you're doing it yourself.

[Hissing Cobra]

Well, it isn't missing the dashboard or glass, though the dashboard isn't pretty. I don't know why it would cost $15,000-$20,000 for the bodywork and paint alone if you did it all yourself and you already have all the major replacement panels, assuming you're not channeling Roger Gibson while doing it. $15,000-$20,000 buys an awful lot of welding wire, shielding gas, sandpaper, filler, sheet metal, primer, and paint.

The engine, transmission, and rearend do not necessarily have to be rebuilt. The engine's last known condition was running; and nothing is known to be wrong with the transmission and rearend. Of course, if you want the engine to look good/correct and have the right amount of power, at the very least it needs to be converted to "Magnum" status (different camshaft, exhaust manifolds, and air cleaner cover ... anything else?) and be detailed.

The other stuff you mentioned can certainly add up quickly though, but the body work would be the cheapest part assuming you're doing it yourself.

I wrongly assumed that the glass and dashboard would have to be sourced and for that I apologize. As for the bodywork and paint, I paid $5,000 for my car to get stripped and painted to show quality specs. The only rust that needed to be repaired, was in the roof but the rest of the car was rust free and dent free (occasional door ding here and there). To get that price, I had to completely strip my entire car down to the uni-body and remove the engine, transmission, glass and interior and then take the rolling shell to the bodyshop. That was back in 2000, ten years ago! Yes, you can save yourself a lot of money by doing it yourself but do you have the skills? I was assuming (maybe wrongly) that you you would be hiring a shop to do it for you. If you were, then I stick to my estimate.

As for not rebuilding the engine, transmission and rearend, you're going to take your chances of re-using them when they're 41 years old? I'm sure the seals, gaskets and bearings would all need to be replaced, not to mention that the heads aren't set up for unleaded gas (unless someone has already installed the hardened valve seats).

I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, just realistic. There's nothing more than I'd like to see then for this car to be restored.

[MaximRecoil]

I wrongly assumed that the glass and dashboard would have to be sourced and for that I apologize. As for the bodywork and paint, I paid $5,000 for my car to get stripped and painted to show quality specs. The only rust that needed to be repaired, was in the roof but the rest of the car was rust free and dent free (occasional door ding here and there). To get that price, I had to completely strip my entire car down to the uni-body and remove the engine, transmission, glass and interior and then take the rolling shell to the bodyshop. That was back in 2000, ten years ago! Yes, you can save yourself a lot of money by doing it yourself but do you have the skills? I was assuming (maybe wrongly) that you you would be hiring a shop to do it for you. If you were, then I stick to my estimate.

You would not only save a lot of money on body work by doing it yourself, but you would save almost all of the money by doing it yourself. Most of the cost of body work is labor, as opposed to materials (especially if you already have the major replacement panels).

I'm pretty sure I could get the hang of that stuff, but as I said before, I'm leaning toward selling it; so the discussion of cost to fix the car is just hypothetical at this point. I would never pay someone to restore it; I'd sell it long before that; so that isn't even an option as long as I own it. If I were paying someone to do it at typical labor rates, I have no doubt it would be as expensive or more so than you estimated.  

As for not rebuilding the engine, transmission and rearend, you're going to take your chances of re-using them when they're 41 years old? I'm sure the seals, gaskets and bearings would all need to be replaced, not to mention that the heads aren't set up for unleaded gas (unless someone has already installed the hardened valve seats).

There are plenty of "survivors" out there, as old or older than this car, that have never had their drivetrain components rebuilt. A friend of mine that I went to school with (who is also a professional mechanic) has a relatively low mileage '63 Ford Galaxie that's all original, and it runs beautifully. It was a "barn find" and it had sat for some 25 years before he found it. I don't know if it's had hardened exhaust valve seats installed in it or not.

[greenpigs]

A few shops I have seen prices for were $65\hr, that's going to add up quick & those were machine shops. I'm not sure about body shop rates.

[440]

Is there much of a difference in value between a restored R/T (440 4-speed) and an R/T clone (440 4-speed), with neither car having a matching numbers drivetrain (the clone wouldn't have a matching numbers drivetrain by default anyway), and all else being equal?

Does anyone have any input on this ?

[PocketThunder]

Is there much of a difference in value between a restored R/T (440 4-speed) and an R/T clone (440 4-speed), with neither car having a matching numbers drivetrain (the clone wouldn't have a matching numbers drivetrain by default anyway), and all else being equal?

Does anyone have any input on this ?

Yes the real R/T is going to be worth more.  How much more depends on the resto.  Does that help? 

[440]

Yes it does, but with all else being equal like Maxim says then only the R/T vin/body stamps are the difference between the two.   

[rt green]

if your going to sell the car anyway, and you've got the parts, why not try your hand at putting it back together yourself? even if you dont do a good job, your hands can do a better job to the car than what  mother nature is doing right now.  if it's not for you, at least you tried and then you can sell it.     my too sence

[MaximRecoil]

if your going to sell the car anyway, and you've got the parts, why not try your hand at putting it back together yourself? even if you dont do a good job, your hands can do a better job to the car than what  mother nature is doing right now.  if it's not for you, at least you tried and then you can sell it.     my too sence

I might do that. I have a 318 '69 Charger that is far more intact (needs the fenders, grill, and front bumper installed, but I have those parts), and it needs work on the rusted trunk and quarters. I plan to try to "learn by doing" on that one, and maybe I'll get good at body work (I've always been interested in learning fabrication and body work; not just because I have a couple Chargers that have been attacked by rust beetles). I've gotten good at a lot of things in life that I never thought I'd be good at before I tried.

[Skyview69]

"• The floors are mostly solid except for in the driver side footwell area. "

With all the leaves and moss, etc growing and decaying on those floor boards I would have to wager that the floor is junk.  How long has it been sitting outside  My guess is that there are more holes in the frame rails as well...sounds like it has been a while since it was inspected but I could agree with everyone that it could be saved. 

Good luck with it 

[MaximRecoil]

"• The floors are mostly solid except for in the driver side footwell area. "

With all the leaves and moss, etc growing and decaying on those floor boards I would have to wager that the floor is junk.  How long has it been sitting outside  My guess is that there are more holes in the frame rails as well...sounds like it has been a while since it was inspected but I could agree with everyone that it could be saved. 

Good luck with it 

It has been outside for about 5 years. I think the floorboards are about the same as the last time I looked (big hole in the driver's footwell area; no other rust holes or soft spots), though there could be more subframe rust.

[TX9H6E4CUDA]

I would say sell it. Someone that leaves a car like that all exposed for five years like that and doesn't even throw a tarp over it doesn't deserve a car like that.

[MaximRecoil]

Someone that leaves a car like that all exposed for five years like that and doesn't even throw a tarp over it doesn't deserve a car like that.

It is pretty cool that you have a crystal ball which has allowed you to divine all the information you need to make a statement like that. Now, would you be so kind as to do something useful with that fancy crystal ball of yours, and get me some future winning lottery numbers? Thanks in advance.

[TX9H6E4CUDA]

After a month I would of gotten the hint I wasn't getting too it and at least thrown a tarp over it. A cover takes two minutes to throw on and keeps the car protected from dirt, leaves and moss from making the car worse. No crystal ball involved just a little common sense needed.

[MaximRecoil]

After a month I would of gotten the hint I wasn't getting too it and at least thrown a tarp over it. A cover takes two minutes to throw on and keeps the car protected from dirt, leaves and moss from making the car worse.

More crystal ball action from you. I'll go ahead and break the news to you: your crystal ball is defective and in need of repair. Whoever sold it to you saw you coming from a mile away.

No crystal ball involved just a little common sense needed.

No. Common sense ≠ clairvoyance; clairvoyance being something that you seem to think you possess (but I can assure you that you do not).

In other words (since you don't seem to be getting it), you have no idea how the car came to be outside for the last 5 years; and until you gain that prerequisite knowledge, your comments on the matter are invalid, by default.

[stripedelete]

After a month I would of gotten the hint I wasn't getting too it and at least thrown a tarp over it. A cover takes two minutes to throw on and keeps the car protected from dirt, leaves and moss from making the car worse.

More crystal ball action from you. I'll go ahead and break the news to you: your crystal ball is defective and in need of repair. Whoever sold it to you saw you coming from a mile away.

No crystal ball involved just a little common sense needed.

No. Common sense ≠ clairvoyance; clairvoyance being something that you seem to think you possess (but I can assure you that you do not).

In other words (since you don't seem to be getting it), you have no idea how the car came to be outside for the last 5 years; and until you gain that prerequisite knowledge, your comments on the matter are invalid, by default.

Sorry to interrupt this meeting but,,,,,,,,, how did you do that "not equal" sign? 

[TX9H6E4CUDA]

There is no excuse for a car that's a shell to be sitting outside for five years exposed and sinking into the ground other then being lazy. I understand its a hard concept to grasp but that's cool. I see you have enough time and effort to flip a audi on it's roof and surround the car with alot of garbage and scrap so I can see how tough it would be to throw a cheap $20 tarp and $5 dollar bundle of bungee cords is so tough. So what do I know huh FTW.

[MaximRecoil]

There is no excuse for a car that's a shell to be sitting outside for five years exposed and sinking into the ground other then being lazy. I understand its a hard concept to grasp but that's cool. I see you have enough time and effort to flip a audi on it's roof and surround the car with alot of garbage and scrap so I can see how tough it would be to throw a cheap $20 tarp and $5 dollar bundle of bungee cords is so tough. Good luck buddy.

Brilliant. By the way, I bolded the hilarious irony in your post. Your new attempted crystal ball reading is in italics.

The same applies as before, so I'll repeat:

"In other words (since you don't seem to be getting it), you have no idea how the car came to be outside for the last 5 years; and until you gain that prerequisite knowledge, your comments on the matter are invalid, by default."

Sorry to interrupt this meeting but,,,,,,,,, how did you do that "not equal" sign?  

I believe you can find it in Windows' character map application (charmap.exe) if you choose a font from the list that has it. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an "alt code" for it. I've had it saved in a text file for years (along with various other non-keyboard characters that I need to use from time to time), because I use it quite often, so I just copy and paste from that when I want to use it.

[TX9H6E4CUDA]

It doesn't matter the reason why but..........im done trying to explain to a hillbilly about taking care of something. Good luck with your sale and hopefully someone will buy it and actually take care of it. Have fun tipping some more junk cars onto there roof filling the trailerpark with more junk.

[PocketThunder]

It doesn't matter the reason why but..........im done trying to explain to a hillbilly about taking care of something. Good luck with your sale and hopefully someone will buy it and actually take care of it. Have fun tipping some more junk cars onto there roof filling the trailerpark with more junk.

Jesus Garret...   

[MaximRecoil]

It doesn't matter the reason why but..........im done trying to explain to a hillbilly about taking care of something. Good luck with your sale and hopefully someone will buy it and actually take care of it. Have fun tipping some more junk cars onto there roof filling the trailerpark with more junk.

This is a joke right? Am I on Candid Camera? Just in case you really are as simple as you appear to be, I'll dumb it down even further:

1. I had nothing to do with that car being outside for the past 5 years.
2. I have never touched that Audi.
3. The car is not on my property. The place where it is sitting is 30 miles away.

Do you see now why your crystal ball is defective? You see, it was giving you faulty information, you know, like when it told you that I flipped an Audi onto its roof, or that I had anything to do with the car being outside for the past 5 years. Do you think you'll be able to track down the fellow that sold it to you?

[TX9H6E4CUDA]

Your thread as I read it made me believe you owned the car and its been sitting year your field for five years and you were responsible for the car in its current shape. I thought you own this car and was wondering if because its been sitting like this is it restorable. I apologize and I just get mad when I see awesome cars like this rotting because someone is too lazy to do the proper things that need to be done to protect a cool and rare muscle car from death. I applogize again and sorry I get so passionate about these cars.

[greenpigs]

 

Guess these two aren't going to get along.

[TX9H6E4CUDA]

Guess these two aren't going to get along.

Nope no need to lock it down. Im sorry I misread the post and was lead to believe he was the reason for the car rotting for five years like this. I apologized (I do mean it) and it was my fault. I have seen in many years cars like this end up at the scrap yard because of the owner not doing simple measures. I am sorry again and carry on with the post

[stripedelete]

Guess these two aren't going to get along.

You don't need a crystal ball to figure that out!