body work cost estimate... is this too much??

[hemi-hampton]

Is engine compartment being painted, is trunk being painted, is undercarriage being painted, are floors being painted, are all jambs being painted? LEON.

[sixty8charger]

Is engine compartment being painted, is trunk being painted, is undercarriage being painted, are floors being painted, are all jambs being painted? LEON.

yes, yes, yes, and yes.

[Highbanked Hauler]

Why is it taking 8hrs to mask? And what's being masked? Isn't the whole car bring painted?

   I very easily can see 8.0 to mask a car because it isn't all painted at one time and you have to bag what needs to be protected from overspray.  If it was completely ready to go The outside would need to be covered so the inside,underside and under the hood could be done then covered. If you are painting bolt on parts off the car they will covered on the inside unless they are hung in the booth and you can do both sides to once. Tight masking is time consuming so you don't get overspray on anything.

[bull]

24 hours/three shifts to blast it? I've never blasted a car but does it really take more than 8 hours?

[ODZKing]

Well, my friend has a small blast cabinet and I did 2 Magnum 500 wheels in it.  Took me almost 3 hours.

[bull]

Well, my friend has a small blast cabinet and I did 2 Magnum 500 wheels in it.  Took me almost 3 hours.

Yea, I've taken a long time to do stuff in cabinets too. Part of the problem with big parts in small cabinets is room to maneuver, seeing what you're doing, turning the part around/over, etc. I would think if you were standing out in the open with a big blasting wand in broad daylight it'd take about 10 minutes to do those wheels. But like I said, I've never done it other than struggling inside a blasting cabinet.

[sixty8charger]

interesting...

[Troy]

I really don't think it's out of line. Look at it this way: most places (not just body shops) "pad" the numbers just in case there are hidden surprises (and there always are). If they happen to blast the car in 10 hours but run into fitment/alignment issues later on it evens out. Just make sure you aren't on the hook for any "problems" which add significantly to the cost. The only thing I question is blasting the "frame" since you have a unibody car.

PLUS: if you like their work and know you'll end up with a quality job then "a little high" is worth it. Lots of guys pay much more than that and get an inferior (or unfinished) job. Pay for the quality - not quantity - of the work. It's very hard to do comparison shopping by only looking at the work performed on a checklist. Fit and finish are very subjective (and can vary widely) so it's best to find a shop that produces to the level you expect (ie don't go to a cut-rate shop and hope they can rise to your expectations if they've never done it before).

As for blasting a car - try it some time to see how long it takes. I know one local soda blaster who could do the exterior in about 4-6 hours. Another shop usually gets a day or two to sand blast a car but I'm not sure what all is included. I want to say Brian spent over an hour on my car just cleaning up the rusty spots around the rear window and lower quarters. Sand blasting would also imply that they turn down the pressure to avoid warping panels - which means the media won't strip as fast. Sure, I've put bumper brackets in a cabinet and hit them with everything it had but that doesn't work on sheet metal.

Troy

[TUFCAT]

alright.. here is a detailed quote i received:

Body work                 HRS     $
Sand blast car body--- 16      800
Sand blast car frame--   8      400
Dent Repair-----------   8      400
Replace Trunk pans---  24     1200
Patch driver floor board  8       400
patch rear window panel 8      400
vinyl top rust treatment  8      400
patch lower rear quarter 16    800
repair right qtr door seam 4    200
patch battery tray area   4    200

prep time charges:
sanding/stripping          30    1500
masking/taping              8      400   ? if the car is stripped.. i don't understand this one...

Painting charges:
Sealing                         .5       25
prime                          1         50
base coat                    1         50  (Black)
clear coat                   2.5      125
wet sanding                10       500
buffing                       10       500

obviously.. some of the Hours listed don't make much sense to me....  but please take a look and give me feed back.

$10K seems VERY reasonable to me.  Actually it's probably cheap compared to most. The important thing when selecting a bid is QUALITY and PIECE OF MIND. Those items are priceless.

[bull]

What Troy says is true. I think everyone would rather get an estimate of $15k and a final bill for $12k than an estimate of $10k and a final bill for $15k. But yea, there's going to be some padding going on and it's not a bad thing as long as they don't take advantage of it.

A lot of this is a regional thing too. In my area it seems body and paint work is high but engine work is low by comparison to the national average. When I told some guys here that my engine would cost $3k for a long block rebuild many thought some cross-eyed farmer would be doing it in his barn with used John Deere parts but it was done by one of the most reputible shops in the Northwest. But body and paint? I don't brag about what I paid for that.

[sixty8charger]

well i guess i better do a little more research prior to committing.  Would it be worth it to buy a welder and patch the areas my self?... paying for the sandblasting? or media blasting myself if i purchased one from eastwood?..  i am trying to be cost efficient.. plus i would like to be more involved in the restoration. (i have never welded.. or sandblasted before)... everyone says it just takes some practice.

[modmidget]

If you don't know anything about welding don't do it.  You can't simply run a bead of weld and expect it to work on sheet metal.  Too much heat in one area at one time will "warp the metal" (sound familiar?) and you'll have a mess.

Sand blasting (media blasting) is probably something else you don't want to tackle.  Your average $400.00 home compressor from Sears (or where ever) doesn't have the power to do it.  You'll burn the compressor up in no time and you could have your 220 wiring smokin'  (I've already done both).  Had to replace 20 feet of 220 wiring in my garage and gave the remains of the  compressor to a friend because he needed the spare parts.

[bull]

By the time you've nickle and dimed your way around buying welders and compressors and media blasters and finding a place to do outdoor blasting etc., you'd probably be out the same amount of money. If you really want to try this stuff though I'd practice on a Geo Metro first and find out if you even enjoy it and are half decent at it. You might find out you like it or you might find out you hate it and would gladly pay someone $15k to do $10k worth of work.

The main thing I'd suggest though is to investigate the body shop thoroughly. Check them out with the BBB, get references, talk to the people who've dealt with them, find out what kind of materials they use and run them by some experts here (Brian) and go with your gut. If anything feels uncomfortable or if you see any red flags don't feel bad walking away and going another route. In my experience the body/paint part of the restoration was by far the worst part of it.

[sixty8charger]

we don't have a geo.. but we do have a neon. guess i could practice on that!

i understand what you are saying.. and i guess the smart choice for me would be to save up and go through a good shop... i guess i will keep on researching.... maybe this shop will work out..  maybe i will find another...  either way.. the only real problem i have is my impatience as the car rusts away in the driveway.. unusable... what a horrible feeling..

[hemi-hampton]

Is engine compartment being painted, is trunk being painted, is undercarriage being painted, are floors being painted, are all jambs being painted? LEON.

yes, yes, yes, and yes.

The paint hours only total 5 hours & $250    I don't get how they are going to do all that painting for a lousy $250. Is Undercarriage going to get painted while turned sideways on a Rotisserrie? I'd charge 5 hours & $250 just for that easily. LEON.

[sixty8charger]

yes.. the undercarriage is going to get painted as well. and coated with a rubberized coating.

[Highbanked Hauler]

yes.. the undercarriage is going to get painted as well. and coated with a rubberized coating.

  not the whole underside just the wheel wells right?  If you paint it you don't want to cover it up do you ?

[69 OUR/TEA]

I geuss it all comes down to what the outcome of the quality of the car is,then you will know if 10K was a good price or not.Everybody has a different eye on the quality of body and paint jobs,how straight it is,panel fit and alignment,and especially in the sanding and buffing area(how flat).
For what I shoot for,after bodywork is done,there is priming/blocking,+ polyester priming/blocking,then back to urethane priming/blocking,prepping for paint,etc.Tons of hours!
Then start painting certain areas of the car,on the rotiss for the bottom,and as Leon said,5 and even more hours to prep and tape for painting the bottom,let alone any work/prep down there.
Then off the rotiss,then final sanding ,prep and taping to paint the car(did'nt even mention the eng bay,inside of car,or inside the trunk).BTW,8hrs is a joke for taping is right!!!!,.......alot more than that.
Moving on,now the outside of the car is done,10 hrs for sanding,10hrs for buffing,that is also a joke,I can sometimes waste that much time just on one side of the car,must be running around just about doing nothing to it,and leaving alot of scratches.(my bad,also depends on what level/look you are going to).
But I will say this,if that is what your budget is,and you are not expecting a trailor queen,then perfect if you get what you want,but I have to agree with the majority of the replys,10K is cheap,hopefully all goes well.If the shop/guy does everything he has qouted to do and for the amount alotted,then hats off to him too!!!!

[jb666]

I geuss it all comes down to what the outcome of the quality of the car is,then you will know if 10K was a good price or not.Everybody has a different eye on the quality of body and paint jobs,how straight it is,panel fit and alignment,and especially in the sanding and buffing area(how flat).
For what I shoot for,after bodywork is done,there is priming/blocking,+ polyester priming/blocking,then back to urethane priming/blocking,prepping for paint,etc.Tons of hours!
Then start painting certain areas of the car,on the rotiss for the bottom,and as Leon said,5 and even more hours to prep and tape for painting the bottom,let alone any work/prep down there.
Then off the rotiss,then final sanding ,prep and taping to paint the car(did'nt even mention the eng bay,inside of car,or inside the trunk).BTW,8hrs is a joke for taping is right!!!!,.......alot more than that.
Moving on,now the outside of the car is done,10 hrs for sanding,10hrs for buffing,that is also a joke,I can sometimes waste that much time just on one side of the car,must be running around just about doing nothing to it,and leaving alot of scratches.(my bad,also depends on what level/look you are going to).
But I will say this,if that is what your budget is,and you are not expecting a trailor queen,then perfect if you get what you want,but I have to agree with the majority of the replys,10K is cheap,hopefully all goes well.If the shop/guy does everything he has qouted to do and for the amount alotted,then hats off to him too!!!!

WELL SAID!!

[FLG]

After reading some responses it does seem fair, but some areas that should be expensive seem cheap and some areas that should be cheap are expensive, or rather the hours to complete some jobs seem too long on some and too short on others.

[sixty8charger]

I geuss it all comes down to what the outcome of the quality of the car is,then you will know if 10K was a good price or not.Everybody has a different eye on the quality of body and paint jobs,how straight it is,panel fit and alignment,and especially in the sanding and buffing area(how flat).
For what I shoot for,after bodywork is done,there is priming/blocking,+ polyester priming/blocking,then back to urethane priming/blocking,prepping for paint,etc.Tons of hours!
Then start painting certain areas of the car,on the rotiss for the bottom,and as Leon said,5 and even more hours to prep and tape for painting the bottom,let alone any work/prep down there.
Then off the rotiss,then final sanding ,prep and taping to paint the car(did'nt even mention the eng bay,inside of car,or inside the trunk).BTW,8hrs is a joke for taping is right!!!!,.......alot more than that.
Moving on,now the outside of the car is done,10 hrs for sanding,10hrs for buffing,that is also a joke,I can sometimes waste that much time just on one side of the car,must be running around just about doing nothing to it,and leaving alot of scratches.(my bad,also depends on what level/look you are going to).
But I will say this,if that is what your budget is,and you are not expecting a trailor queen,then perfect if you get what you want,but I have to agree with the majority of the replys,10K is cheap,hopefully all goes well.If the shop/guy does everything he has qouted to do and for the amount alotted,then hats off to him too!!!!

i appreciate your insight on this (as well as everyone else!). From the vehicles i have looked at that he has done, he does a very good job on them, and i think the quality looks great. Paint has a great reflection, no orange peel no swirls.. welds look strong on the vehicles in the garage right now. 

the underside will be coated first.. not painted.. i "miss-typed" on that. I am not trying to put mirror underneath.. this car will be a driver.. and driving it is what i will do! nothing crazy but it will see some miles, that is for sure! 

The most important aspect of it for me right now is stopping the rust and removing it.. properly patching everything up.. and then putting on a protective coating.  i don't want to ever have to do it again.

really.. if i could get the car stripped of rust and patched up right.. i would paint the car utilizing either the rustoleum roller method or by purchasing a paint gun set from eastwood, or harbor freight and an air compressor and actually doing it myself.  that is not an issue for me.. i just want it to look good, but not be 1st in show at Carlisle...

only problem i have is: 1.. i am on a military pay roll.. so 10k is something that will take me a good amount of time to save for, but if that is worth it then it is something i would consider... and 2.. i have never painted a car.. or welded anything...   so if i do it.. who knows how it will come out.. guess thats the best thing about paint though.. since i would be able to "reset" the car and try again. welding intimidates me.. but heard it isn't too difficult.. so perhaps i will purchase one..(don't know which one would be worth buying..) tear apart some old filing cabinets or something and make some welded up tin mans.

it is all a learning experience for me. and i love this website! i never really purchase anything for the car, or start any work, unless i first consult this site.. which i call "the oracle"! 

the only positive thing about if i purchased some of these tools is that they would definately be used again. I (better if i use the term "we" since she is actually doing a lot of work on the charger with me, she's pretty handy) want to build my wife her favorite car (64-66 mustang.. or if i can find an actual Shelby of any year, she would accept that!)

I thank you all so very much!

keep the opinions, tips, advice.. etc.. coming! i very much appreciate it! (and happy Thanksgiving!  )

[Cooter]

 "i don't want to ever have to do it again.".....

This would depend on how well you take care of the car nd how "Anal" you are about water/rain...I've had people actually ask me "Do you guarantee your work NOT to rust out?"

My reply: "Did the factory?"

Bottom line is, if you "Drive" your car as some here say they like to do (This means Rain OR shine), then be prepared to be doing this again..

I like the ones that have NEVER even done bodywork commenting on the prices....These types always get the "royal" treatment from me...($100/hour)..
Then, when they complain about how much they are charged, I simply reply: "My "Free time" is only "Free" to ME!"

[ACUDANUT]

There are good and bad aspects to both dipping and blasting. One thing about dipping; the hidden spots that did not rust during the past 40 years are now bare metal so guess what? They're now going to rust so unless the car is then dipped in epoxy, wash primer, or e-coat or something you're going to have problems. Also, that acid will eat everything so the car is going to have to be stripped down completely. Every little piece of plastic, rubber and sealant you don't want destroyed needs to come off. It's a 100% commitment.

VERY TRUE...also, get it in writing before dropping it off.
Finding a good bodyman out of work is a great way to save in "overhead costs".

[SFRT]

10 k for all of that, done decently...seems a little optimistic.

unless your going to be doing the majority of the grunt work and leaving the difficult stuff to him...and the dude is your bro etc.

realistically, if I where you i would budget 20K and an extra 6 months minimum, so you dont end up stuck half way and dissapointed. doing this stuff right is a ton of work. and you WILL find secret problems not evident now.Once your guy starts in on chasing rabbits....it can get crazy.

[hemi-hampton]

If I got a stripped to bare metal undercarriage & got to epoxy prime & then Undercoat thats easily a 5 hour $250 job. That will leave you with 0 hours to paint the rest meaning don't be surprised if paint hours go up or short cuts are made to make up for it. Also,  here is something nobody every talks about or Realize's. You get 2 identicle cars side by side both in same rusty condition.  You have 2 different guys restore both. When done both look the same & quality looks similar. Only the price on one is $10k & price on the other is $40k. You scratch your head wondering why one 4 times more then the other when the outcome looks identicle. The Answer. 10 years later down the road the $10k car has fallen apart & a P.O.S. while the $40k car still looks mint. Plus the $40k has 4 times more hours & work into it. Quality will last longer then Perfume on a Pig, Which do you have may not be apparent at first but will be later. LEON.