How important is #s matching to you? And, what is YOUR definition of #s matching

[rooks]

Its importance is completely subjective and individualistic.

My Challenger has #'s matching engine, trans, diff, and all VIN & body tags/stickers also match.

There were 2 reasons I wanted #'s matching:

Reason 1: $30,000+ is a lot of money for me. I was buying my dream car, and I wanted to make sure that I was getting my monies worth. Something that was #'s matching and in good condition was reassuring. It let me know that it was something that had been moderately cared for over it's 40 year life-span. Which also meant that is was reasonably reliable. Chances are, this is something I'm only ever going to be able to do once - and I wanted to do it right.

Reason 2: I like older vehicles. My only other cars are a '74 Holden Ute, and a '67 Impala. There's something about old cars that a new car just can't match. And things like #'s matching adds to the feeling. Nostalgia can be great - some couldn't care for it - that's cool, but I enjoy it. I enjoy driving - windows down, tunes cranked, clocking hours behind the wheel, with no other objective than the drive itself, imagining being in a better time - knowing that that exact same body, engine, driveline & wheels have been doing that very thing for decades - thinking of the families, places & adventures that very combination of parts has journeyed during its lifetime is pretty cool.

Just my

[ccr-host]

I notice many people are lumping "numbers matching" together with "all original". There is a difference.

To me, numbers matching on any car is when the VIN and other matching body numbers coincide with the original engine assigned to the car. The transmission is no big deal. I think it does have an effect on the value. However, there are components which can be installed that would increase the value of a vehicle, regardless of their originality. For example, a performance 426 Hemi installed in an original slant 6 car, would likely increase its value rather than take away from it. But, I'd still keep the six in a bag should a buyer want it.

[Ghoste]

I think it's too dismissive to say the transmission is no big deal.  After all, if it was really no big deal then it couldn't have an effect on the value. 

[BrianShaughnessy]

Numbers matching means the original vin engine in an original vin car to me...    No build dates are kinda close, no factory replacement engine garbage.   

That being said I don't care personally cause I don't want a museum piece.   I'm in it for the pleasure... not the treasure.

Neither engine in either of my cars is original and I like it that way.

[Old Moparz]

Numbers matching for me....

1) The dash VIN better match the papers that come with the car.
2) The numbers in the price match the numbers on the greenbacks in my pocket.

[ACUDANUT]

To me numbers matching is only about the VIN stampings on the engine, transmission, and various sheetmetal.
The color of the car can always be changed back....Cheaper than trying to find the drivetrain.

[elacruze]

Interesting question, and interesting answers.

To me, #s matching means all the factory serial numbered items are present, along with any other individually identifying data.
I'll make the caveat that for instance my '68 R/T drivetrain won't match numbers per se but would be correct in somebody's '68 R/T.

As pointed out previously, 'numbers matching' 'survivor' and '100% original' have different meanings.

How much does it matter *TO ME*?

Not much. However, it would matter a lot more to me if my car was matching. I completely appreciate seeing numbers matching and survivor cars separated at the shows for their originality, even if it can't be seen.

I'd feel a little regret, driving an original car the way I'll drive mine, too.

[triple_green]

This is an interesting topic....along with this goes the orignal versus modified conversation. It seems like for resale originality is a guarentee for a wider audience. Modifications are subject to personal taste and therfore can make the value of the car go up or down to different individuals.

My car is all numbers matching down to things like the carb, exhaust manifolds, radiator, etc.( Althought it is not an R/T.) Because it was so original when I got it, I hated to modify it too much. However sometimes I get the hankering to upgrade the suspension and the engine for some performance, but am hesitant to do so.

3X

[UH60L]

Good topic, and alot of great responses.  I personally think that:

1) Numbers matching original should mean that the car is, in fact, original, not "the same codes as original, not an original option.  If it's original, it's original.

2) It should only matter if you are a) advertising your car for sale as "numbers matching original" and it, in fact, isn't, or b) you are intentionally trying to hide the fact that it isn't at car shows or cruise ins.  If you do that, your asking for the unsolicited comments.  Most car shows only allow 2 or 3 minor modifications before they make you register as "b-body modified" or whatever.

3) If you buy a car and it isn't original when you buy it, it's fair game for anything you want to do to it (no matter how ugly looking or ill-advised) because it's your car.

I think having an all original car does make it worth more on a collectability scale, but the bad thing about that is that those cars tend not to get driven.  They are all for show or investment purposes.  I personally like driving mine, which is why I consider myself very lucky to have found a '69 charger that had not been original for more than 20 years prior to me getting it.  So now it will be part R/T clone, part resto-mod (modern stereo and alram system, minor suspension upgrades) and part General Lee (I left the dixie horn in even though I am not putting on the decals).

I remember seeing a car on ebay just after I got mine that stated "numbers matching '68 Charger R/T".  It had no motor, no trans, no glass, no doors, no hood, no trunk lid, 4 flat tires and was sitting in a briar patch with briars growing through the car.......and it was at $10,000 and going up.  I got mine, in drivable condition with a 440........for $7100.00.     :-)

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

This is an interesting topic....along with this goes the orignal versus modified conversation. It seems like for resale originality is a guarentee for a wider audience. Modifications are subject to personal taste and therfore can make the value of the car go up or down to different individuals.

[The70RT]

It doesn't mater to me since I never plan on selling it. Mine has a warranty block with no numbers and I have a receipt from Jim Clark Chrysler Plymouth in 1973. The guy must have been out of warranty because it cost him $900 for engine and installation.

[472 R/T SE]

It doesn't mater to me since I never plan on selling it. Mine has a warranty block with no numbers and I have a receipt from Jim Clark Chrysler Plymouth in 1973. The guy must have been out of warranty because it cost him $900 for engine and installation.

Do you know what happened to the #'s motor?

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

It doesn't mater to me since I never plan on selling it. Mine has a warranty block with no numbers and I have a receipt from Jim Clark Chrysler Plymouth in 1973. The guy must have been out of warranty because it cost him $900 for engine and installation.

Having that receipt, separates your car from all the others who "claim" to have "warranty motors" without stampings, but no paperwork to back it up 

[Ghoste]

Yeah but most of those mysteriously grew stampings to reflect the cars VIN. ( no receipt needed  )

[knitz01]

It doesn't matter to me I'm acually pulling the # matching engine and trans. I would feel bad if I blu up the SOB down the strip or on an old country road. I LIKE TO DRIVE HARD

[HITMAN 149]

i wasn't specifically looking for a true "R/T-number$ matching" car when i was looking for my 68... it just happened to work out that way for what i paid for the car at the time, especially compared to "junk" others were selling for the same price!! my car wasn't all matching numbers as far as the motor (1970 block) but it was a real VIN R/T. but i had plans on resto-modding it anyways... as i wanted to enjoy it as a real nice street car, not a trailer queen...

[PatrickPeeters]

If the car and engine need complete rebuilding, and you planning to do an all the way resto with the car you gonna buy, # would be a nice addition.
If you want it just for fun of driving, you probably are better of swapping engines anyway....keep the # close seems that lot of people like to have the original enigine.
I've got the original 1 of mine 68 try to make a pic later, you can see that it would take a lot of work. so deicided to replace engine for another 383....
Keeping the original laying around, who know  what comes my way...

[motorcitydak]

I honestly could not care less about #'s for my car. When I bought it, I was told that it came with the #'s motor. I did not care about that and did not bother looking into it until I had everything at my house. It ended up being a '75 400 motor so its most likely not the original one. Honestly, Im glad because that just saves me from having to store some bug hunk of cast iron in the corner of my garage while I take my car out and have fun not caring if I block the block apart

[The70RT]

It doesn't mater to me since I never plan on selling it. Mine has a warranty block with no numbers and I have a receipt from Jim Clark Chrysler Plymouth in 1973. The guy must have been out of warranty because it cost him $900 for engine and installation.

Do you know what happened to the #'s motor?

It was the second owner and I never talked to him. The work order shows rod out, so bearing or did it window the block? I guess it could be out there still if it was savable.

[b5blue]

To me matching numbers VIN, block, tranny and axle means it's out of my price range! The matching numbers on a lottery ticket could change that! (of course having said that, my 90 New Yorker "beater" is numbers matching...   )

[General_01]

To me #'s matching mean that the body stampings, engine, VIN and tranny and axle match the fender tag.

I will say that #'s matching only matters to me when I am looking at the asking price. I would be willing to pay more for a #'s matching vehicle then a non-#'s matching vehicle in the same condition.

Now do I HAVE to own a numbers matching car. No. Does it matter if the car is #'s matching when admiring the handywork of a vehicle at a car show. No.

[WB General Lee]

Great topic! I see more and more these days that many people are not as concerned if a car is matching #s because I hear things like well these cars are old and how many are matching anyway. I bought many Mopar muscle cars in the past and only one that was non-matching. There was a C-500 4spd car non matching #s for sale a while back and I could have bought it reasonable but I passed on it because I knew I would not be satisfied and end up selling. Thats just me. I think you are one way or another not to much in between.

Now I do own several movie cars and a few are non-matching but that is just what they do so I dont sweat it.

I think as long as youre happy and you dont try to misrepresent a car by stamping #s or rebody and then try to rip off or take advantage of someone who may not be an expert thats great.

[Troy]

"Numbers matching" is exactly that - all the numbers that the factory put on the car should match. When it comes to price that's what will matter. There are obviously instances where not all of the parts are there (engine, and rad support seem to be the most common) so I'd consider those "partially numbers matching". If you bought your car in an envelope it's illegal no matter if the numbers match or not (and fraud if you try to sell it after building it).

Troy

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

Ads like this make me chuckle... 

Really???  Does it even matter the core support, fender tag, VIN #, and title match when the original engine is gone? Why bother mentioning 


...and I would surely HOPE the title matched the VIN if I bought a car 

1973 Dodge Charger in good condition.....Car has a 1966 big block 383 4 BRL motor....."The radiator support numbers, fender tag numbers, V.I.N. tag numbers, and title numbers all match"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/383-4-BRL-727-TRANNY-P-S-P-D-B-BUCKETS-CONSOLE-/260688728624?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3cb2425230#ht_655wt_1167

[twodko]

We are lucky to have our #'s matching 69 R/T. We bought it from the original owner who purchased the car from a local dealership. The price we paid for it reflected this and as we learned more about these cars, things like having both broadcast sheets, dealer docs and window stickers made it clear why #'s matching cars command higher prices. Having been a woefully uneducated Chevelle guy before I saw the mopar light, #'s matching was a phrase I'd never paid attention to.
Granted our situation is unique in that we acquired the car from the guy who bought it. He took good care of it, never wrecked it or modified it and is a stickler for details. All of these things make the car a valuable fun investment for us.
We bought the car to drive it, take it to shows and share our passion for it with others of like mind. It will never be a trailer queen. I love all muscle cars regardless of who made them, 2nd gen Chargers (read 69's) just happen to be the holy graile for us. As an authentic #'s matching car we won't be able to say its all "original" once we put a new stereo in it. Just owning one of these cars, matching or not, is where the magic is. There are 10's of thousands of Cameros, Mustangs, Chevelles etc out there but not so for 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen Chargers. Therein lies the monentary and personal value of our Chargers.....matching or not.
Are we special enlightened people because we own Chargers?..............HELL YES!
Just my opinion.