OK, Here It Is: The '11 Dodge Charger R/T

[Ponch ®]

Honestly, the only place I hear complaints about the Charger and/or use of the name is here. Im on other MOPAR related message boards and I go to a ton of car shows/cruises and it's just not that big of a deal outside of the (very small) classic Charger community.

Do you believe that same attitude is present with today's "Charger" anywhere but in the gansta/lowrider/pimpmobile crowd? I don't see it. Do you think 30 years from now you'll see people dragging the new "Charger" out of the bushes and barns and spending $50k to restore them? I don't. There's no comparison when you boil it down.

See, that's just it. Just because YOU don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. You're already making a pretty egregious generalization by saying that the only people that are enthusiastic about the car is the "gangsta/lowrider/pimpmobile crowd". Far from it. I really don't know what you're basing that opinion on... . Sure, that segment does exist, but it's not the largest or main contingent by any means. Now, I don't know what your preconceived notions about me are, but I'm neither a gangsta nor any of those things. I don't have any TV's in my car, and I don't even have a sound system other than what came with it from the factory. Just because I have 22" inch wheels (which, really, is the size that looks best on these cars) doesn't necessarily mean it's "blinged out".  

I belong to arguably the biggest LX car club in the west coast (300+ members) and every other member is a 50 year old 'conservative' type white guy that's into the cars precisely because they remind them of the muscle they used to drive back in the day.  I'd say about a third of us are into performance, another third into the bling scene, and the other third are into both. There's a flavor for everyone. Hey, KWS is into these cars, even though he now has a Challenger he used to own a 4 door charger...and I'd say he's far from a gangsta pimpmobile type.

Will people be dragging them out of barns and spending ton of money to restore them? Who knows. But keep in mind that when the winged cars came out and sat in new car lots for years I don't think a lot of people would have bet that they'd be as desirable as they are now.

[elacruze]

I hate these threads.

I like these cars.

I hate them using the Charger name on it.

Oh well, moving on.

[bull]

My "egregious generalization" is based on the amount of time/money spend on the cars. Unless these gray heads you're talking about have a lot of expendable cash on hand they probably aren't dumping tons of it into them like the lowrider crowd I referred to. I'm talking about the fervor in the type of people who spend $100k on a $3k-$7k car (lowrider crowd) and how that compares to the fervor of the people on this site who will spend thousands of $$ and hundreds of hours restoring a beat up, all-but-dead 69 Charger (although it seems the lowrider crowd seems to happily blow tons of cash on just about any RWD/V8 car, four door or not). If this type of dedication is present among the average Joe LX clubber I've never heard it or seen it. And there's nothing about the car that tells me it ever will happen in the future, just like you don't see too many people dragging four door '72 Darts out of the barn and spending $50k to restore them. You can scream your dedication to this car from the hilltops but in the end it's just another misnamed four door. Again, were it not wearing the wrong nameplate there wouldn't be a problem. Not sure why you're so hellbent on convincing me otherwise.

You're in denial, as are Chrysler's ad monkeys. Accept it, fix the car or the name, and we can finally move on.

[UH60L]

"wait...so you didn't want them to build the challenger because it would be used in arguments about the 4 door Charger? "

What I meant by that, was as soon as I heard they were calling it challenger, I knew that a 2 door charger would not be happenning, at least not for a few years, and I knew that the challenger would be touted as "the 2 door that all you purist bleepity bleeps thought the charger would be".  Hey guess what, that's exactly what happened.  There isn't a place on the internet where you can politely ask dodge for a 2 door version without someone throwing out the "the challenger is the two door, DUUUHHHH!" comments.

"But seriously...my point when I mentioned the Challenger was that no matter how great the car is, there will always be a few malcontents who will shoot it down."

Actually, I have only seen some minor complaints or requests concerning the challenger.  One of which is that they got rid of teh functional butterfly valves in the hood scoops from the concept car.  Another is that they don't offer it in subime/sassy grass green.  The issues I have seen people bring up with the challenger are minimal at best.  Unlike the charger that generated literally bags of hate mail to dodge, and as we can attest to is still causing a controversy among car web sites.  For the most part, people love the challenger.  Heck, I thinks it's great, but it's not my thing.  I love chargers, specifically 2nd gen, but I like 1st and 3rd gens too.


"They could build a retro styled 2 door Charger with a 500 hp HEMI that is the spitting image of a 2nd gen, and the usual suspects (who, again I must emphasize, wouldn't buy the car anyway) would be whining about how it sucks because it doesn't have an 8 track player like the original did."

Well, to that I'll say this, anything is possible, but I think it would be a very small few that would do that.  To be honest, speaking for myself, if they had built it in 2005/2006 looking like this 2011 version, there would have been alot less complaining.  I still hate the dodge truck front end on it, and yes, I would rather have a 2 door, but if it had looked like that back in 2005/2006, even I might have bought one.  That was the biggest complaint I had, that in addition to being a 4 door, it really looked NOTHING like a 1st, 2nd or 3rd gen charger.  "yeah, but it's got a hemi" they said..........

Oh, and for the record, my '69 charger didn't have an 8 track, just saying............

 

[Ghoste]

It should be no surprise that the new Challenger gets the worst complaints on a Charger forum but when you say that you don't hear the same hate for it on other Mopar forums, does it mean they like it or they just don't care?  Because I'm on a bunch of other forums too and even though I don't read the hate for the car that exists here I also don't see slavish praise either.

[rooks]

It should be pillarless!

My .02c

[chargerjy9]

It should be pillarless!

My .02c

It can't be pillarless, It won't be, todays safety regs quashed that idea, the new Challenger isn't without pillar, just disguised w/ blackened glass. same with new Camaro, Mustang. etc. Some of us have understand that 1968 doesn't exist anymore.

"You're in denial,  Accept it, (they did fix the car ), and we can finally move on. "

 

[jb666]

When I bought mine, last year, I bought it because I thought it was super comfortable, fast and good looking... And at the time I NEEDED a 4 door car.

That need disappeared 3 months later, and I found out how "fast" the car really was, and sold it (after modifying it quite a bit).

If you need a 4 door family car, this is a cool and VERY comfortable ride..

I disagree on one thing.. I think the '96 Impala SS is hot... I bought one new in '96 and the service tech wrapped it around a pole on a test drive... But for the 3000 miles I had it, I loved it.



Funny, I look at them NOW and don't see the same appeal, but back in 1996 I had two little kids and the thought of a full (and safe) four door car with a Corvette motor in it got me all tingly 

[Bigun426]

The Charger name is what Chrysler is selling not so much the car. Could have been worse and been a re badged Intrepid. The looks may not be retro but the performance pieces available is light years ahead of "put the biggest engine in we can" mentality. The original was marketed as a sport coupe as the new one is marketed as a sports sedan in a segment that the customers are more affluent. The second gens were muscle car cheaper  version that appealed to younger and more customers. With over 40 years of technology advancement and government mandated safety regulations and fuel economy regulations things are going to change. I wish I was in my twenties again but that ain't going to happen. That $4000 Charger of the 60's would probably be a $35000 Charger today.  My Charger had a scheduled build date of Nov.3 1965 and cost the original owner over$ 3600  when he purchased it in Jan 1966 and it was expensive for its time. He only got $600 for a 4 year old Ford in trade. Close to 38000 66's were built and a little over 17000 67's were built and if the 68's didn't take off like they did there would never been a  Charger religion.

[Ponch ®]

My "egregious generalization" is based on the amount of time/money spend on the cars. Unless these gray heads you're talking about have a lot of expendable cash on hand they probably aren't dumping tons of it into them like the lowrider crowd I referred to. I'm talking about the fervor in the type of people who spend $100k on a $3k-$7k car (lowrider crowd) and how that compares to the fervor of the people on this site who will spend thousands of $$ and hundreds of hours restoring a beat up, all-but-dead 69 Charger (although it seems the lowrider crowd seems to happily blow tons of cash on just about any RWD/V8 car, four door or not). If this type of dedication is present among the average Joe LX clubber I've never heard it or seen it. And there's nothing about the car that tells me it ever will happen in the future, just like you don't see too many people dragging four door '72 Darts out of the barn and spending $50k to restore them. You can scream your dedication to this car from the hilltops but in the end it's just another misnamed four door. Again, were it not wearing the wrong nameplate there wouldn't be a problem. Not sure why you're so hellbent on convincing me otherwise.

You're in denial, as are Chrysler's ad monkeys. Accept it, fix the car or the name, and we can finally move on.

Really, you'd be surprised at the amount of time and money that the nonlowrider/gangstas put into their cars. And we're not talking lambo doors and TVs either. 426 stroker kits, superchargers, suspensions, all sorts of internal engine upgrades. Serious stuff. And that stuff ain't cheap. Maybe you haven't seen the dedication among the new car crowd because you refuse to believe its there. I personally and sincerely extend you an invitation to come down to SoCal in March to the biggest LX show in the country and check out the scene. If after that you still think theres no enthusiasm and dedication to these cars and that it's all about thugs and bling bling, I'll defer to your opinion on the subject from then on.

But this is all academic.

I'm not trying to convince you to like the car, or to accept the name or anything. It's your right to hate it all you want. Differences of opinion are what makes the world go round. However, as a car enthusiast I never thought it was cool to shit on what other people do like...and that's all you ever seem to do when this threads come up and someone says "hey, I like them". But hey, if that's how you get your jollies off and it makes you feel better, more power to you. As far as being in denial...well, I'm not the one that's been on a sysiphean crusade against the 4 door Charger for over 5 years. It's here and, at least for the foreseable future, it's here to stay.

But I still love you...not in a gay way though.  

[bull]

Really, you'd be surprised at the amount of time and money that the nonlowrider/gangstas put into their cars. And we're not talking lambo doors and TVs either. 426 stroker kits, superchargers, suspensions, all sorts of internal engine upgrades. Serious stuff. And that stuff ain't cheap. Maybe you haven't seen the dedication among the new car crowd because you refuse to believe its there. I personally extend you an invitation to come down to SoCal in March to the biggest LX show in the country and check out the scene. If you still think theres no enthusiasm and dedication to these cars and that it's all about thugs and bling bling, I'll defer to your opinion.

But this is all academic.

I'm not refusing anything other than to say I don't think adding expensive bolt on stuff compares at all to a full restoration, the kind that have been detailed over and over again here and on many other classic car sites and in clubs. And I think my assertion is supported by the high demand/supply for parts 40+ years after these classic cars were made. Sure, I've seen people spend gobs of money on all sorts of stuff that's still worth 1/50th of what they've got into it. Maybe that's a California thing because I don't see it much here. Anyway, this is not my point. Again, my point is that I believe it's very unlikely many of these LX cars will be pulled from the puckerbrush to be restored 40 years from now. Some good evidence of this might be the 4th and 5th gen Chargers and how often you see them being hauled up onto trailers out of the woods for a full restoration. I'm sure it's been done but a quick look around for available parts will quickly show you there's next to no demand and therefore next to no supply. Why? They are still Chargers according to Chrysler Corp. but they have little following.  In order for a car to be worth restoring it must have some intrinsic value, be it monetary or sentimental. Perhaps some of your car club friends will restore an LX for the sake of sentimentality but I'll bet my last buck they would have a helluva time getting the supply to meet their isolated demand. I guess time will tell. If there's anywhere near the level of fandom for the LX version as there is for the 66-74, and if you and I are still alive and in contact in 2050, I give you my blessing to gloat.

I'm not trying to convince you to like the car, or to accept the name or anything. It's your right to hate it all you want. However, as a car enthusiast I never thought it was cool to shit on what other people do like...and that's all you ever seem to do when this threads come up and someone says "hey, I like them". But hey, if that's how you get your jollies off and it makes you feel better, more power to you. As far as being in denial...well, I'm not the one that's been on a sysiphean crusade against the 4 door Charger for over 5 years. It's here and, at least for the foreseable future, it's here to stay.
But I still love you...not in a gay way though.  

I see little difference between the degree of passion in your opinion and mine, they're just opposite. I simply think this four door LX Dodge being called a Charger is a misnomer, a mistake and an ill-conceived advertising ploy (which basically equates to a lie). I think it's a slight to those who've loved their classic Chargers since before you were born, whether they take it as one or not. I think it's a big middle finger extended on the part of Chrysler which, to use your words, apparently thinks it's cool to shit on what other people like. They simply pulled the name out of their collective a$$ because it's a popular name they could make money off of (if not then why use it?), and yet they apparently aren't smart enough or thoughtful enough to ascertain that this name actually holds meaning to some people. This LX thing doesn't deserve the name, it shouldn't have the name, it violates the identity of my classic Charger and therefore I think it really has no place here on this site, which to my understanding was originally meant for fans of the 66-74 Charger. Just because some advertising chump in a suit and tie somewhere tells me something is so doesn't make it so, especially if the product he's pushing looks nothing like what he's telling me it is. Even more so when the name he's assigned it is the name attached to something I truly love. In essence what I'm saying is that the new "Charger" is akin to New Coke that showed up in 1985, except many people are ignorant to the fact (or don't care) that some of us feel more strongly about the Charger name than they do about the formula of a beverage.  

Oh, and I love you too, Ponch.

[MRHWS]

My last  on the subject. There is a saying that history repeats itself. I remember when the muscle car era hit the streets. At the time, original model A Fords were the big thing. Today, you can't give them away. Well, maybe to chop it up and make a fenderless all chrome chariot. Then the '49 Ford styled cars were the big thing. Seen any lately? Oh yeah, rat rods. Throw in the custom car era. How many lead sleds you passed on the highway lately? Then the shoe box Chevys took over the reins. Don't see many of the original ones around much anymore. They are now pro touring? What the hell is that? Clones, tributes, wanna be's. I would guess the majority here was somewhere between 16 and 21 years old during 1965 thru 1971 period. I was. We collect what was in our generation. Guess what? Another 10 to 20 years and the only original muscle cars will be in museums because no one from todays generation will be interested in them, well maybe to chop them up into resto or rat rods. They will only be interested in what they grew up with. Yep, history just keeps repeating itself.   

[bull]

My last  on the subject. There is a saying that history repeats itself. I remember when the muscle car era hit the streets. At the time, original model A Fords were the big thing. Today, you can't give them away. Well, maybe to chop it up and make a fenderless all chrome chariot. Then the '49 Ford styled cars were the big thing. Seen any lately? Oh yeah, rat rods. Throw in the custom car era. How many lead sleds you passed on the highway lately? Then the shoe box Chevys took over the reins. Don't see many of the original ones around much anymore. They are now pro touring? What the hell is that? Clones, tributes, wanna be's. I would guess the majority here was somewhere between 16 and 21 years old during 1965 thru 1971 period. I was. We collect what was in our generation. Guess what? Another 10 to 20 years and the only original muscle cars will be in museums because no one from todays generation will be interested in them, well maybe to chop them up into resto or rat rods. They will only be interested in what they grew up with. Yep, history just keeps repeating itself.   

One thing you may have missed though is that the average Joe can no longer work on current cars like he used to be able to back between 1900 and about 1985. There's a big difference between dropping small block Chevy into a rat rod and trying to keep on top of all the current safety, computer and environmental requirements of today's cars. That's another thing I should have pointed to in my argument above.

And I disagree with your age assertion because there already are many people in today's generation that are interested in older cars, just like many older people are interested in new cars.

[Danny Gutierrez]

 When the LX Charger first came out I was very vocal about my dislike for the car. Over time I had the chance to drive a few RT's and even an SRT and began to like the car. Should a Charger have four doors? Probably not, but compared to most modern domestic and foreign cars out there, it's closer to honoring the Charger name than any other car out there.
I like the 2011 design. This is coming from a true classic Charger owner. I love my 69 and I like the 2011 Charger. Too bad I can't afford one!!    I would proudly take pictures of both Chargers in my driveway if I had the$$$$$$.

[Iron Chef]

I dunno...the grill they could get rid of, but the rest of the car?  I'd strongly consider it if I didn't already have an '09 Challenger R/T.

[Brock Samson]

 I just read my Car&Driver first impression of the 2011 model and a couple things come to mind.
 One is that they addressed a few things that really put me off about the earlier version which I drove back in '06, the Hard gray interior, which has been improved, as indeed all the models, have been across the board, They even have a RED interior   and I have seen two tone white and Blue interiors in the newest Challenger SRT 6.1 versions for 2011. finally somebody's   bitchen about monochromaticgray plastic interiors has been addressed...

The Areo. number has been improved with a steeper rake to the windscreen, which seems like a no-brainer to improve highway MPG. I like the new tumblehome or shoulders particularly noticeable in the rear most door cut, but I still find the rear suffers from the dumpy drawers effect, but at least now all models have two exhausts, even the smallest motor which BTW being the new Phoenix engine gets a long awaited significant boost in H.P and torque from the old 3.5.

Last, I notice weight is up, approx 100 Lbs. which is supposedly to improve safety mandates, but these LX cars - the Chally incl. could really benefit in a variety of ways from a rigorous diet, not the least being better MPG across the board and that would greatly improve their chances in the market.

So, here's a an old and new Comparo. and sneak peak at the not yet revealed SRT version shown this week at SEMA as the "Redline"...
interesting tibitts are a rumored 8 speed trans. and Joystick Six-Speed Pistol Grip with paddle shifting.

BTW: two new special paint colors have been added one is the red on the Redline showcar and the other I think is a Charcoal Silver, If i remember correctly.. they are rather expensive though, costing an additional $1K!  
Anything to get rid of the horrific Orange Peel on most new cars, is ok in my book. That too was a complaint of mine when I drove the LXs..

[mikepmcs]

not your gandfather's oldsmobuick. 

[Brock Samson]

not your gandfather's oldsmobuick.  

speaking of which,.. here's the undisguised 300 C...

[Landonsrt]

Ehhhhhhhhh, not impressed. I like the changes in the interiors with all the models. Long overdue..

[RD]

300 looks limo'esque if you ask me... alright, but it looks kinda like a lincoln.

[plum500]

Saw the spy shots etc as they crept out, have seen glimpses here and there, thought I might think it was even worse with the styling they added. I'd still like to see a side on shot to see what the proportions are from that view, but, overall, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't liking this.

As someone who has chopped the crap out of the previous version...it wasn't just about the 4 doors for me. And I would still trim up that crosshair a bit more maybe, but it's not that bad -- they've really reduced the squareness of that front end and added some nicer angles to the grill. I very much like the back end - looking from front to back, and the back end view itself. Again, they've reduced the boxyness a lot, in particular after the rear wheels - there's some lift and a bit of tuck, that works well with the curve from top to bottom, and the sides. I would still like to see it in person before the final verdict, and a 68 is still a 68, a 71 is still a 71, but I think I like it.

[mauve66]

the wheels on that redline r/t reminds me of the nissan gtr that came out last year or the year before???

on a side note about interiors, my kid saw a fushia challenger at the local dealer and raved about the two-toned seats, white and fushia so maybe the interiors are coming around

[Brock Samson]

 According to reports from SEMA on ALLPAR all the additional mods on that redline model have part numbers. the paddle shifters are a new wrinkle unfamiliar to most folks here I suspect... I'm searching for more info on these two new paint options too...

[Landonsrt]

I'm not crazy about the interior on the fuscia cars. The off-white does not look good to me. Reminds me of my grandmothers 76 olds cutlas with white interior. I'll never own one. But that's my opinion.

[472 R/T SE]

Good chance I'll be selling one of my classics for this new Charger.  Gots to see one in real life but I really like what I see so far.