It used to be a 69 daytona

[500Jon]

Wait till 'Dolly' finds out she's a clone and not of natural birth!
She is gonna be well upset!
I see years of counselling and a huge bill at the end.

If only Peeps had looked after these cars better?
There would be enough to go round LOL!

What would spend our time fixing then, Shevvies and rusty Frauds?
What a waste of time that would be!

Not sure I want a Daytona now, too much greif!!!

Glad I got a rustfree C500, but no one cares about them as much as Wingers LOL!!!
Just look at the state of some of them C500's in too!

[69DAYTONASE]

If the history of the car is publicly known and documented there isn't any danger of fraud down the road. The internet has changed all that! If it's a re-body then so be it, at least all the parts from the original are incorporated in the resurrection of the car. Will it be worth as much as a car that is "pure bred", no, but that doesn't mean it's worth nothing!
I'll put it this way, if the resurrection was documented and the price was fair, I would consider buying the car just because the story is so cool surrounding it, and I own a pedigree Daytona!
I am puzzled as to why people are beating up on this guy for wanting to put another Daytona back on the road, if he were trying to pull something then OK. But, he obviously wants to be on the up & up about doing this. I can just imagine the reaction at shows when people look at pics of what he started with, I'd bet the reaction would be 90+% positive.

BTW: If this car wasn't ever junked with an auto recycler than he certainly CAN use the parts he has as well as junkyard parts to rebuild the car. Even if the insurance company wrote the car off as "totaled" unless the owner of that car surrendered legal title to the insurance company, the car would remain the legal property of the owner. Contrary to what most believe, you do not have to surrender ownership of a totaled vehicle to the insurance company. It's a trick they use to shove money back in their pocket when they sell your car to a salvage yard.

[Alaskan_TA]

When the dash VIN & fender tag for XX29L9B414627 were offered for sale in 2010, the ad was reported to the NICB. (National Insurance Crime Bureau) So, if the 'numbers' come back as another car, the person trying to insure it may run into a major obstacle, possibly even criminal charges.

[69DAYTONASE]

I've seen the pictures and he has the dash with VIN plate attached plus the firewall. If he rebuilds the car and it passes state inspection it is legally insurable. Where is the insurance crime here? True that you cannot(and certainly should not) remove VIN tags end try to sell them, but it is a whole different category when the tag is still attached to the dash/firewall.

[Alaskan_TA]

Any questions about it should be directed towards the NICB.

[Nwcharger]

When the dash VIN & fender tag for XX29L9B414627 were offered for sale in 2010, the ad was reported to the NICB. (National Insurance Crime Bureau) So, if the 'numbers' come back as another car, the person trying to insure it may run into a major obstacle, possibly even criminal charges.

who was selling the dash and fender tag? I bought the car with tags

[69DAYTONASE]

....and I find it interesting that there are those "big shot self appointed hobby police" that say(rightfully so) that it is illegal to tamper with or remove a VIN tag. Yet, last I knew there was a person selling the stenciling for the VIN tag, as well as the special rosette rivets to attach the plate to the dash. 2 pop rivets for...what was is....$60? Who is policing the police?
Whoever reported this to the NICB should have done their homework I think......

[Nwcharger]

....and I find it interesting that there are those "big shot self appointed hobby police" that say(rightfully so) that it is illegal to tamper with or remove a VIN tag. Yet, last I knew there was a person selling the stenciling for the VIN tag, as well as the special rosette rivets to attach the plate to the dash. 2 pop rivets for...what was is....$60? Who is policing the police?
Whoever reported this to the NICB should have done their homework I think......

[Nwcharger]

When the dash VIN & fender tag for XX29L9B414627 were offered for sale in 2010, the ad was reported to the NICB. (National Insurance Crime Bureau) So, if the 'numbers' come back as another car, the person trying to insure it may run into a major obstacle, possibly even criminal charges.

I also see on your web page that the numbers were removed and for sale. that's not true. the numbers are with the car still. along with the numbers matching motor. 

[Alaskan_TA]

that's not true.

It is true.


You should look into the legal aspects of 'it' before investing any money in what you 'have', that is the best advice I can give you.

[moparnation74]

The legalities and insurance questions may be a problem for the current owner.  That is between him and DMV/insurance.  However, it is his restoration and his problem.  We can quarterback this all day long, including myself.

If he was being shady about it at all, then why create a public forum on this car?

When you google the VIN there is a link to this forum, a forum that will not be deleted.

Restore it

[Nwcharger]

that's not true.

It is true.


You should look into the legal aspects of 'it' before investing any money in what you 'have', that is the best advice I can give you.

ok maybe in your opinion but if your running a web page for mopar information I would think you would want it to be correct and not just your opinion. im very familiar with the law and if it was just tags I would have passed but its not. its a wadded up car with numbers matching motor. the tags were never for sale alone, the car was. that's where the info is incorrect.

[Alaskan_TA]

Last post for me in this thread.

The car / hulk / rusted & crushed remains were in one person's possession.

Meanwhile, another person according to him (direct quote from the person with the hulk follows) had the "the tags, drivers door with VIN decal, original transmission, rare Daytona trunk hinges, etc. Those items are available to me for a price. "

I just report what I know, so do not shoot the messenger. 

[Nwcharger]

Last post for me in this thread.

The car / hulk / rusted & crushed remains were in one person's possession.

Meanwhile, another person according to him (direct quote from the person with the hulk follows) had the "the tags, drivers door with VIN decal, original transmission, rare Daytona trunk hinges, etc. Those items are available to me for a price. "

I just report what I know, so do not shoot the messenger. 

I understand completely and have no problems with you personally. I like your page and information you provide and the fact that you hold paperwork to be claimed.  im sure you heard people say they will restore a car and just rebody it a thousand times so me saying that's not my intent means nothing especially since we don't know each other personally. all I can say that im going to save everything I can and bring this car back. I own 3 other chargers and soon a c500 and could have put the tags on one of them years ago and been done with it, but im not a dirt bag and it wouldn't be the same to me personally.  I want to be able to take it to shows, tell its story and what it took to bring it back. that's the god honest truth.

[69DAYTONASE]

If a previous owner of this car lacked accuracy in describing what he had, how can anybody take that as "gospel truth" concerning what he was actually selling? The pictures don't lie, with what he has he can restore this car legally. However he choses to. I wonder if whoever took it upon themselves to erroneously report this to the NICB, without actually viewing what was there and providing evidence to back up their accusations of fraud, would have guts enough to provide the current owner of the car with their name and address so he can file a libel suit in the event that he should have any issues restoring his car. I bet not.
The issue should be aiding in the preservation/resurrection of another Daytona, not how best to discourage a fellow enthusiast about to undertake a major project.
Restore it! Post up some current pics that are date stamped, that should put the matter to rest concerning the VIN plate/dash top/firewall.

[500Jon]

Hi NW,

I am impressed with your bravery and stamina!
To think at the end of all this you may be called 'THE CLONEMAN'.

This has been a 'KANGEROO COURT', as with all car-clubs it seems?
It happened to me too over a small matter of differing opinions.
Nothing on this this scale though!

I see this as a Milestone for all future restorations of this nature.
I BOTH ENVY YOU AND FEAR FOR YOUR RE-CREATION THAT IS 414627!!!

5J, watching and waiting for the outcome!

[held1823]

If a previous owner of this car lacked accuracy in describing what he had, how can anybody take that as "gospel truth" concerning what he was actually selling? The pictures don't lie...

ah yes, the pictures. here is exactly what the previous "owner" was selling. notice how nice the condition is?

that's because the rest of the scrap metal was left at the bottom of the ravine for years.

[69DAYTONASE]

Those pics certainly tell a different story. Who is the dope that cut the dash top? The previous pictures show the dash top complete, but with the cut out piece. Obviously whoever did it wanted to save $20 in shipping, duh!(not expecting to sell the car itself).....but this guy did buy the car. Unfortunately, the minute that tag is removed from that piece of dash it does become fraud(much to the annoyance of the $60 for 2 rivets person I am sure LOL).
IMO to stay legal & legit he must restore the original dash top and reattach it to the original firewall. I'm sure this statement will irk a few people here, but the tag still hasn't been removed from the original part/location that it was placed in at the factory, so he is still OK.....but GEEZ his job is tougher now!
He'd have to document restoration of the original dash and it's reattachment to the firewall to avoid trouble I think.
Whoever cut the dash was advocating for fraud, but this guy bought the entire car, such as it was, and made it public in this forum. Which tells me that he intended to do the right thing.
How about pics of the dash as it is now and after repair and reattachment of the cut out piece?(I am assuming he has the cut off part as well as the rest of the dash top)  
(Former Industrial welder)I'd low temp mig weld it back together from the back side and fill in the top seam with JB cold weld before finishing it off, but cover up the VIN plate so weld spatter doesn't burn a hole in it.

[moparnation74]

In any event it falls into altering, tampering, removal of a Vin.

[held1823]

Those pics certainly tell a different story. Who is the dope that cut the dash top?

the "dope" who cut the dash top retrieved the only thing left of that car that had any value all those years ago. the rest of the carcass was dragged out of the ravine at a much later time.

In any event it falls into altering, tampering, removal of a Vin.

bingo.

just like the "hobby police" have been saying from day one.

[500Jon]

OMG its T5!

Thats worse than Vin tampering in my book!!!

Lose the vin tag quick and build a clone, B5 with black buckets and a 4-speed!
It will be worth more and no Blowback from DC.COM!!!

[Nwcharger]

the dash tag was cut out 20 years ago when the car was in the ravine. I do have the rest of the dash and do plan on saving it and rewelding the piece that was cut out. the guy I got the car from pulled the car out of the ravine and located the tags and numbers motor. when I get started ill post detailed pics. 

[69DAYTONASE]

Sorry, I have been mis-quoting VIN tag rivet prices ECS Automotive has NOS ones for $29 a pair   years ago I recall them being advertised for $60 a pair.
What?, you mean it's cheaper to re-weld the original dash?
ECS also has the VIN plate stenciling.....
Gee, why hasn't the FED shut them down for aiding in fraud? Hobby Police, this is a job for you, shut that company down..... (....superhero music fades in....)

[moparnation74]

Clearly, as the picture showed the VIN plate was removed.  It does not pertain to the rivets only.  Tampering and altering will follow thereafter.

As I have said, the legal/DMV ramifications is his problem not mine. 

Sometimes the risks outweigh the benefits!

[odcics2]

I'll provide the photo. You guys provide captions...