Which suspension kit? Which upgrades?

[XS29L8]

I'm getting ready to tear the front suspension out from under my 68 R/T in the next couple of weeks.
I'd like to get the parts here so I can just blast, coat and reassemble things but am unsure which kit to get.
Where did you guys get the bushings/tie rod ends/etc?

Also, I've been over on Firm Feel's website doing some drooling - is there much to be gained by using their upgraded parts?
I'll likely never auto-x the car, just be a street beater. But I would like it to take on/off ramps with some composure.

Thanks for any input!

[WHITE AND RED 69]

Check out the hotchkis setup as well. Some of the components are expensive but the results seem worth it. Thats what I'm putting on my car this fall.

[bull]

First off I suggest you decide if you want OE-style rubber or polyurathane stuff. That said, and once you decide, a lot of guys have gone with the PST kit: http://www.p-s-t.com/pc-1815-157-dodge-charger-1966-76.aspx which can be had in either material.

[Mike DC]

  
Here's a vote to keep things rubber.  New replacement rubber already feels a helluvua lot better than worn out rubber parts.  



The lack of "road feel" in old cars is the typical complaint that starts these conversations, and that effect is coming from other places as well as the bushings.  

Get increased caster in the alignment (aftermarket UCAs and/or offset bushings), an overhauled steering box, and a new pot coupler/rag joint.  That should make it feel pretty tight.  


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If you're thinking about spending some coin to tighten the whole car up, I would go to chassis stiffening mods first.  Subframe connectors + factory torque boxes + front lower radiator brace.  The car will feel a bit tighter. 

Even if you wanna keep the car pretty stock-looking underneath, you could still justifiably add the factory torque boxes since it's an R/T. 

[doctor4766]

Good points there Mike DC.
Mate of mine got some Moog components when he rebuilt my front end. Can't remember exactly which bits were of that brand but we did all the stuff like tie rod ends, ball joints, idler arm and pitman arm etc
Must say that my car drives extremely well for a 41 year old vehicle that hasn't had major upgrades per say....

[Belgium R/T -68]

I also went with Moog standard rubber, feels great for my needs.

Per

[XS29L8]

Ok, so standard rubber it is.
I was planning on reusing the original t-bars, unless anyone thinks I shouldn't.

I do feel it needs an upgraded swaybar, if memory serves the car had quite a bit of body roll around corners. Any recommendations?
I will likely add a rear one later on, it seems easier to do.

Do any of you feel the Firm Feel tubular upper control arms or reinforced lowers are worth the expense?
How about the HD tie rod ends or strut rods?

Thanks for any input gang!

[HPP]

I've always used the PST kits with poly graphite bushings. Never had any trouble at all with these. Hard parts are decent and the poly has always fit great.

IMO, the big issue with muscle cars is that they are significantly undersprung in comparision to a new car. For an R/T, I'd recommend at at least a 1.0" t-bar with a 1.125" front sway bar. Out back use XHD style leaf springs to keep the arch low. Vendor on these could vary, just look for the best deals. I'd also say a Hotchkis adjustable rear sway bar would be a nice addition as well. they are a bit more pricey, but lightweight and the adjustable feature lets you tune it in to match your driving and the front set up.

To make this set up work, Edelbrock shocks would be the minimum requirement, although Bilstein and Koni are best. Also, a basic requirement before any suspension upgrades are either torque boxes or sub frame connectors. A better suspension doesn't do you much good if the body is flexing.

I wouldn't bother with tubular upper control arms, but, replace the control arm bushings with the moog offset kit. Install these OPPOSITE of the instructions. This is because the instructions are designed to get the most camber and what you want is to do increase your caster range. Caster is another big difference in new cars vs classics.

When you done bolting it all together, put your chosen wheel/tire set on it and adjust your front ride height where you like it. Next up is the alignment. Three VERY important things here; tell them not to alter your ride height. Set it where you have it. Next, DO NOT use the stock alignment specs. They are for skinny bias ply tires. Finally, ask for -.5 camber, as much positive caster as possible up to 5*, and 1/16 total toe in.

After that, enjoy the new personality of your car!

[Mike DC]

I agree the front torsion bars could use stiffening even when the car is keeping its muscle-era wheel and tire combo.  Anything in the 0.96-1.00 range is a good choice.  



But I think the stock R/T leaf springs are plenty stiff enough for handling purposes.  The factory already erred on the stiffer side for the rear leafs because of their drag racing focus.  I suspect that focus is partly why the front torsion bars were so soft.  

For the rear springing issues, I would just add a small swaybar and call it good.  If the rear is leaning too much, then it needs more swaybar.  If the rearend is riding too low, then the leafs needs more arch height.  

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Another comment on The Great Poly Versus Rubber Bushing Debate: Some guys run a combination of both. 

I would consider poly bushings in the UCAs, but not in the LCAs or the LCA struts.  I would consider poly bushings at the leaf spring shackles but not for the leaf spring eyes. 

 

[drifter69]

I am going with P.S.T myself and Lee is a great guy to deal with.

[HPP]

But I think the stock R/T leaf springs are plenty stiff enough for handling purposes.  The factory already erred on the stiffer side for the rear leafs because of their drag racing focus.  I suspect that focus is partly why the front torsion bars were so soft.  

We agree on this one too. The stock R/T springs are the biased, XHD design or Hemi springs as they are more popularly known.

[Mike DC]

   

Aaahh . . . I forgot my Mopar lingo there. 

I was thinking you were suggesting super stock leaf springs, with the comment about keeping the arch low. 

 

[XS29L8]

Another comment on The Great Poly Versus Rubber Bushing Debate: Some guys run a combination of both. 

I would consider poly bushings in the UCAs, but not in the LCAs or the LCA struts.  I would consider poly bushings at the leaf spring shackles but not for the leaf spring eyes. 

 

Would you mind explaining the reasoning behind this approach?
I'm wide open to any suggestions - this is something I only want to do once.


Glad to hear the rear springs are up to the task - mine are not sagging, I will be lowering the rear via the dropped front shackle mounts and adding a rear bar down the road.

The car will not be retaining the stock wheel/tire package, it will be getting 17"/18" E/T Classic Five's.

Thanks for all of the input guys, really appreciate it!

[Mike DC]

When it comes to suspension bushings, impact/ride cushioning is good but allowing lateral movement is bad.  So the idea is to place the rubber and poly where it stands to give more of one and less of the other. 

I think the LCA really needs to stay rubber just from the cushioning point of view.  The LCA mounting point already takes enough load that the metal on the K-frames can fatigue over time and tear out the LCA mounting tube.  (Check your K-frame when you get it apart, it may need re-welding!)  Taking out the rubber in that spot would tighten the car up but I would be wary of the long term effects. 

The UCAs are not taking the vehicle weight from the torsion bars and they are also a higher pivot point on the wheel, so IMHO it would probably be more beneficial and less harmful to tighten up this spot for both reasons.  The bushing-induced change in the wheel's camber would be a bit less with a firm UCA/soft LCA, as opposed to the opposite.   


In the back end of the car it's basically the same principle.  Allow some front-to-back movement of the wheels, but try to limit lateral movement.  The front leaf spring eye bushings will allow the most direct impact-cushioning so leave those rubber.  But the rear end, particularly the chassis-to-shackle bushings, has more of an effect on the lateral movement of the wheels than a cushioning effect.  So if you firm up anything with poly, firm up those. 


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If you remember the McLaren F1 supercar from the 1990s, I've read that they actually took ALL the lateral movement out of the suspension.   At each corner the control arms were mounted on a big subassembly that rode on ball bearings, sliding forward and backward but not laterally.