Questons about Undercoating (Ziebart).

[bakerhillpins]

All

Looking at a Charger that has had a massive application of undercoating. Its all over the engine bay/firewall and apparently in the rails/doors too. Owner indicates it was applied by Zebart by the previous owner. When I checked out their website their application process confirmed they spray it everywhere. http://www.ziebart.com/rust_protection.php

I have a few basic questions:

• What is your basic opinion of the stuff.
• How hard is this stuff to remove? Apparently its been on since the early 80s. I saw a few posts about using torches and scrapers, kerosene, etc, but is there any chance of getting it out of the doors/rails?
• Is it a bad thing that they sprayed it inside the doors / rails.
• Would you avoid buying a car with this stuff all over it? (as in this car)
• Is it typical for someone to use this stuff to cover up sketchy repairs?

Thanks  

[NHCharger]

Back in the 70's and 80's most dealerships around here offered Ziebart as an option. When I bought my 280z new back in 78 (yeah, flame suit is on) I remember the plastic plugs in the door jambs and other places where they coated the inside. In less than 5 or 6 years I still had rust coming through on one dogleg and that car was never driven in winter. So my opinion about it's effectiveness is not very high.

I don't remember any of that shiet in the engine bay or firewall. It was common practice back then to use this stuff.
Never tried removing it. I wouldn't worry about it being inside the doors. I sprayed that rubberized undercoating in my Charger doors to cut down road noise and trying to prevent rusting. I drove my charger home in the rain with the interior panels off. The amount of water that got into the doors amazed me.

[bakerhillpins]

The stuff is all over the inner fenders on the engine side. I can only assume that either the PO did it on his own or he directed the crew at Ziebart to coat the inner fenders as well.

Do you recall if they shot that stuff in the frame rails back then. Presently that is my biggest concern.

There is a chance that the PO just dropped Ziebart to try to dance around the fact that he did it himself. 

[NHCharger]

Do you recall if they shot that stuff in the frame rails back then. Presently that is my biggest concern.

Can't remember. Sold the car back in 92

[TeeWJay426]

Sounds more like a HLPAG or BK cover up tactic to me. If it was done in the 80's as he claims, the car was already 10+ years old..... how effective would anybody think a rust preventative would be on a car that old? Sounds like a BS story to me.

[bakerhillpins]

Sounds more like a HLPAG or BK cover up tactic to me. If it was done in the 80's as he claims, the car was already 10+ years old..... how effective would anybody think a rust preventative would be on a car that old? Sounds like a BS story to me.

The car was supposedly striped, repainted, and then Ziebarted. (hrmm... maybe a new slang term for a car that has been undercoated in an excessive manner?  )

[Brock Lee]

Ziebart was huge in the 70's and early 80's. However the cars all rotted away and by the early 90's every location in my area was gone. I am surprised they still exist.

[Mike DC]

"I'm telling you, without that Truecoat, you're gonna have oxidation problems!"

[hemi-hampton]

Does it have the plastic ziebart plugs. If not I'd be suspicious of a owner cover up. Who knows what hiding under there. LEON.

[superbirdtom]

Ziebart was a real waxy sticky stuff but ws impossible to get everywhere inside rockers etc. unless you dipped your whole car in it. Ive ran into it through the years.  Now  I believe subaru has their version of it.

[bakerhillpins]

Does it have the plastic ziebart plugs. If not I'd be suspicious of a owner cover up. Who knows what hiding under there. LEON.

I am not familiar with what to look for with regard to the plastic plugs? Are they put in the holes in the frame rails?

[jeryst]

I remember buying cars that had been ziebarted, but there was never any in the engine bay/firewall, and there was never any in the trunk. The whole purpose was to spray it into the enclosed areas to keep the metal from rusting from the inside, and to spray the undercarriage that is exposed to the elements.

They would drill holes in the door jamb area, and in the part of the door that faced the door jam. Then they would insert a long metal sprayer rod to spray the stuff inside. After that, they would insert small yellow plastic plugs in the holes to keep out the moisture.

I would be suspect of any in the trunk or on the firewall. I would also be concerned if the little plastic plugs were not present. To me, those things would mean that someone other than Ziebart sprayed the stuff on, possibly to cover problem areas.

I've seen cars where they filled bad spots with expanding foam, then covered it with bondo, then sprayed on heavy layers of undercoating to hide everything.

[rrob]

I have always lived in the snow belt and Ziebart was never a very effective rust preventer in my opinion. I would be cautious of this car, however if the price is right it could be a good buy.

[TUFCAT]

I told Bryan to be cautious about what's underneath also.

The owner may not have repainted the engine compartment, door jambs, or trunk sides when the car was initially painted, then for some reason decided this could be a quick way "to cover it up? ...who knows.  

This is a nice car but I think it needs to looked at carefully in person, then ask the owner ...."What the hell"!!!!

Btw, to some people the phrase "Ziebart" has the same meaning as "spray undercoat from a can".  Living in Michigan in the 70's and 80's, the word "Ziebart" was synonymously used to replace "rustproof" or "undercoat" - just like "Kleenex" to blow your nose, or "Kool-aid" for flavored water.

As I remember, most of us refered to any non factory applied, black rubberized, sticky goo, as "Ziebart".  In fact, most people around here even referred to the factory undercoating as "Ziebart"!

Like I said it was a commonly used product and well known around the Detroit area.

Ziebart's biggest competitor was "Tuf Kote" - not to be confused with TUF CAT!!  

[bakerhillpins]

Btw, to some people the phrase "Ziebart" has the same meaning as "spray undercoat from a can".  Living in Michigan in the 70's and 80's, the word "Ziebart" was synonymously used to replace "rustproof" or "undercoat" - just like "Kleenex" to blow your nose, or "Kool-aid" for flavored water.

As I remember, most of us refered to any non factory applied, black rubberized, sticky goo, as "Ziebart".  In fact, most people around here even referred to the factory undercoating as "Ziebart"!

I was wondering the same exact thing. Which means it might not be in the rails but rather just sprayed all over the place. 

Like I said it was a commonly used product and well known around the Detroit area.

I don't know... that sounds a lot like TUFCAT to me. 

[moparstuart]

   We had  Ming in this area also , which had a mirror finish clear coat type stuff and the rust proofing stuff also .

[elacruze]

In SE. Michigan, cars with no Ziebart typically lasted 3 years before showing rust. They were fender flappers in 5. Ziebart, properly applied gave maybe 5 before showing and 10 before dissolving.
Ziebart was an option at many dealers, and independent shops also; the issue was with the quality of application. Properly applied, they drilled access holes when there were none and sprayed the inside of the frame rails, doors, etc and plugged the holes with plugs that said 'Ziebart' on them.

I see no reason to think that Ziebart is a negative on any car. Even poorly applied, it protects what it's on.

[bakerhillpins]

Got a few pics...

Engine bay looks nasty and it doesn't seem to be all over the firewall.. Looks to be confined to the inner trunk walls.

[resq302]

I know Chris G has it on his Hang 10 duster and has the original paper work for it too.  Maybe he can chime in.

[bakerhillpins]

Got some more pics and it was Zebarted...     has the sticker and the yellow plugs. 

So how can you get this crap off? Does it have to be scraped off or will liberal media blasting or a dip in a chemical stripper take it off as well?

[mauve66]

its inside the door not on the outside so why do you want to take it off? it is probably make the doors sound less tinny when they close at this point and there are no "frame rails" so to speak for it to be "inside"

[bakerhillpins]

If I end up buying the car its going to need a total repaint in the future and I am trying to see if I am going to end up spending half my life scraping or if I can just use another process. Just trying to learn as much about removing it as I can. I would rather know all my options up front that's all.

Plus, its not just inside the doors as you can see in the engine bay pics, they shot it all through the car. I was told its in the rails too. Growing up in PA I recall this stuff not really helping to do anything but expediting the rot.

[hemi-hampton]

I would not worry about removing what you can't see & hidden. I'd remove whats visable on the inner front Fender's in engine compartment though. I think it helps but just my opinion. LEON.

[elacruze]

Call 'em!

They're in Troy, Michigan.
http://www.ziebart.com/contactus.php

[68blue]

Had a lot of undercoating on the engine bay on mine, even on the bottom of the hood. It all cleaned off with a mix of xylol and MEK. Replaced it with paint.