My car will not start without starting fluid...updated!

[AKcharger]

The '72 (400) never liked to start after it sits for a while. Once it fires up and runs it's fine, just tap the key it it fires off. Since it's colder it will not start at all with starting fluid. I thought well it's the choke...nope even manualy closeing/opening it nothing. Then I thought it was a fuel problem...fuel drains from bowls and will not start till more gas is pumped up fromthe fuel pump, well that 's what I thought but taking off the air cleaner and moving the throtttle and gas sprays out fine. New plugs/wires/cap/rotor timeing is OK but not set with a light

Now I know it could be any number of things but does anything come to mind?

Thanks

AK

[Chryco Psycho]

weak coil

[Duey]

Bill, in addition to Neil's point about the coil, remember your accelerator pump will also still have gas in it for a few squirts even if the bowls empty themselves.  Try look at the carb again and see how many squirts you get out of the accelerator pump...I'll bet you only get 3-4 tops and then nothing as the accel pumps tries to feed from the bowls.  Does Sue's 400 have the two barrelHolley, or was it a T-Quad?  If the Holley, then I think Neil is bang on.  If the TQ, it may have warped-itis or crack/leaks on the jet floor wells.

Cheers,
Duey

[AKcharger]

Hmmmm Coil huh? I'll swap it with the '70 tonight and see if thet helps.

Duey, car actually has a new Edelbrock 600 performer 4 bbl so warpage isn't a problem...in fact I swapped it with the 600 from my '70 and had the same results so it's not he carb.

[Duey]

Hmmmm Coil huh? I'll swap it with the '70 tonight and see if thet helps.

Duey, car actually has a new Edelbrock 600 performer 4 bbl so warpage isn't a problem...in fact I swapped it with the 600 from my '70 and had the same results so it's not he carb.

Ahhh, roger.  Then Neil's the man!

[John_Kunkel]

How old is the gas?

I've had instances where they wouldn't start on stale gas but would run great after firing up. The tailpipe odor of stale gas is sometimes pretty obvious.

[firefighter3931]

The ECU could be going south....something else worth looking at. Pull a plugwire and ground it to the exhaust manifold while cranking the engine over. What you're looking for is a bright blue spark. If you see a dull yellow/orange spark, the ignition is weak and you need to isolate it. Have a look at the coil voltage as well....it should be 6-9 volts. Plugs could also be fouled if yo cranked and cranked the engine, flooding it.

Ron

[haueter66]

I have had similar probs before where the problem was the plugs themselves... just a thought

[AKcharger]

The ECU is new (doesn't always mean it's good) and plugs are new. Was too cold and I was to lazy to try the swap after work...perhaps tomorrow

Thanks guys!

[tecmopar]

As a few have stated already, check the spark. I had a very similar problem and it turned out to be, a battery with not enough cranking amps. The starter pulled so many amps in the cold that there was none left for the ignition. Just like yours, it would crank but not start and with todays crappy gas there just wasn't enough spark to light it up, good luck.

[AKcharger]

Braved the cold and installed new coil...still bad.

I'm following you guys about the strarter and ignition but I'm thinking that as the car warmed up the starter plug or what ever would get hot creating MORE resistance and would make it harder to start?

well any  other suggestions?...help

I've installed New:
- Plugs
- Wires
- Cap/Rotor
- ECU
- Coil
- Carburator
- Engine Wire Harness
- Alternator

[firefighter3931]

Did you try grounding the plug wire to the ex manifold ? Spark color ? Voltage reading at the coil ? How many volts is the battery reading ?

Ron

[Headrope]

Looks like you have all the components of a new igntion system except the battery. Might as well replace that while you're at it and eliminate ingition system problems from the equation.
Get one with a higher cold cranking amps rating than the one currently under the hood.

[AKcharger]

Couldn't drag the kids out to help so didn't get the spark color...but I will as well as checking Coil readings.
Battery is 6 months old and cranks real good

What about timing? I'd suspect that but when warn fires off by just touching the starter
Condensation in cap?

[BigBlockSam]

all my 440's do something similar but i know it's fuel.   if i let them sit for more than two weeks, you have to crank them alot to get the fuel to the carb. seems like the fuel line empties back into the tank. no problem just keep pumping them till you hear the engine try to start. then pump it a good 8 or 10 times. turn the key , with no foot on the gas . they start right up and the choke kicks on. even my friends 66 charger big block does the same. Rene

[RD]

bill, make sure your ECU is grounded properly to the firewall.  sometimes the paint does not allow for a good enough ground for it to work properly.  clean your plugs, they are most likely fouled, and get that timing down

[General_01]

Sounds like she's ready for the junkyard. I'll take her off your hands for $50.


Seriously, I would have to agree with the others. Do you have electronic ignition or points? If electronic, did you replace the ballast resistor? those things go out in the blink of an eye. I know it usually is the reverse (starts, won't stay running) when this goes out, but you seem to have tried everything else. Who knows?

[AKcharger]

OK I solved the mystery and I feel kind of stupid...Seems I just needed to pump the gas peddal about 7-10 times. I talked with a pal who said "in my 'ol chevy truck I got ta pump the peddle about 10 times" well I tried it and sure enough it fires off...runs a little cold but warms up and it's fine.

Now my question is WHY? Carb is a new (Aug '05) Edelbrock 600 non-choke. Why would I need to pump so much gas in it? some facts:
- Engine is a '76 stock 400 out of a cordoba...not cam'd up or anything
- Ran carb on my '70 383 for a month in sept...in fact drove 3200 mile to Kansas and back with it...never caused a problem on that engine. 2
  pumps and the 383 fired up and idled fine. Now the 383 is a little hotter than stock but nothing radical

Any ideas why I'd need to pump the peddal so much on start?

Thanks!

[BigBlockSam]

i told you all my 440's are the same.

[Chryco Psycho]

I love eeddy carbs 

[John_Kunkel]

Now my question is WHY? Carb is a new (Aug '05) Edelbrock 600 non-choke.
Why would I need to pump so much gas in it?

Sentence one answers sentence two. Without a choke to pull extra fuel you will have to do it by foot.

[haueter66]

my 440 is the same the first time I start it for the day... after that it fires right up without even pushing the gas usually...

[bull]

Starting fluid is bad news. Engines get "addicted" to it, for lack of a better term, and then won't start without it.

[NHCharger]

Yep, what Chryco said. Eddy's have some type of problem, some call it percolation. If you don't run the car every day the fuel drains back out of the carb.
I have eddy's on both my Chargers, both are manual choke (neither are hooked up). What I do to start both cars is first turn the starter for about ten seconds, this gets fuel to the bowl, then pump the gas pedal 15 times, turn the key engine catches for a few seconds, pump pedal another 10 times, turn key and she fires up. If I had run the car the day before I only need to pump the gas about 8-10 times when I get in the car and she'll fire right up.

[GTX]

I have Carter's on the GTX and what I do is turn on the fuel pump and let it run for a few seconds - wait for the change in the tone of the pump indicating the line is pressurized ( If I'm under the hood I can see the pressure guages come up) , then pump maybe 2-3 times to prime the carbs and fire her up with no pressure on the pedal.
Starts quickly most every time that way but if it's been run recently I don't pump the pedal.
My carbs are not really dialed in yet for blower use though.