Engine running badly, won't idle, rich, etc. HELP!!

[buie1289]

Hey guys, I'm having a lot of trouble with my newly rebuilt 318 and I'm hoping that someone here can help me out a bit. It's been a while since I've had time to devote to my Charger since my business is in its busy time and my wife and I just had our second child in April. But things are calming down and I'm trying to hammer out the remaining problem on the car.

Basic specs:
Stock 318 engine that came in the car from Chrysler
Stock heads, crank, pistons.
Stock valves (new)
Edelbrock Performer intake (new)
Edelbrock carb, 600cfm (new)
Adjustable push rods were necessary (new)
Comp roller lifters (Which is why I had to have the adjustable push rods)
Comp roller cam
   Gross lift - .513 Intake & .498 Exhaust
   Duration @ .050 - 227 Intake & 241 Exhaust
   Lobe Separation  - 107
Comp double roller timing set (new)
   Lined up the dots square to square which should be right.

Problem(s)
1. Car runs VERY rich regardless of the timing.
2. Typically I would set the initial timing to 10* or so as a starting point. But I can't even get the car started at 10*.
3. To get the car to start, I have to give it about 28* of initial timing.
    a. At 28*, it won't idle below 1500rpm or so.
    b. To get it to idle between 850 and 1000 I have to advance to nearly 40*, that seems WAY too high to me.
    c. At 40*, idling at 1300rpm, the car dies immediately when you put it in gear (automatic, 904, fresh rebuild stock, converter).
    d. At 40*, the throttle response is fantastic and the idle is good in neutral/park, still very rich.
    e. At 40*, it stutters badly above 1500rpm, but starts fine and idles fine.
    f. At 40*, I have 22" of vacuum
    g.  The cam specs say to give all the initial advance you possibly can, the car will take 56* before it gets hard to start. Again, that seems WAY too high.

What I have checked/replaced
1. Replaced carb 3 times
2. Replaced coil, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, distributer, ignition module
3. Checked and rechecked firing order about a thousand times.
4. Checked for vacuum leaks with brake cleaner. Only place I can't check is under the intake.
5. Pulled the timing cover last night hoping I would find that the timing gear was off a tooth, but it's dead on.


Has anyone here had symptoms similar to this? Or does anyone have any suggestions? I'm pulling my hair out. I'm by no means an engine "expert", but I have built quite a few for myself and I have never had one give me this much trouble.

   

[y3chargerrt]

Thats alot of cam for a stock 318. How much vacuum are you pulling at idle?

[buie1289]

Idling at just over 950 it's pulling 22". That seems fairly decent. I was expecting somewhere in the 10-15* range. When I was talking the the guy at Comp, he suggested the cam since I was using a pretty much stock engine and converter. He advised that vacuum would be good.

[frederick]

Looks like a Thumpr camshaft, no?
Must say I am surprised at the vacuum you can get, I too was expecting to around 10".

Just a few thoughts;
The 40deg you need to get the car idle speed down, is that with the vacuum disconnected and plugged?
Have you checked to see if the balancer has spun?
Only one mark on the balancer?


Cheers,

Frederick

[buie1289]

Frederick, you are right on, it's a Thumpr cam. So far I'm not too impressed with it. Also, the timing numbers are with the advance disconnected and plugged. Think maybe there was a mistake on the cam or gear when they were made?

I've ordered a stock timing gear set just to compare it to the Comp one on the car.

[frederick]

Am I correct in assuming you've lined up the dots on the cam gear?
You should really "degree" the cam.

For that you need a degree wheel and a dial indicator with magnetic stand.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-900016-1/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1057/

Here are the instructions on how to make sure the camshaft is installed at the correct centerline.
http://cranecams.com/pdf/803.pdf



Frederick

[resq302]

How is the carb?  Might want to check and see if you have a stuck float or a float that is bad.

[Purple440]

Wow that is a big cam for a stock 318.  The LSA at 107 might be making it hard to tune.  Does it have a big lope?