Is This 69 charger 318 car worth to restore ?

[Mikesmoparperformance]

Hi Guys,

I live in the Netherlands and I am 24 years old I always wanted a 69 charger to built a General lee out of it
I was looking for a 69charger with a T3 Interior standaard from the factory
Know I Have found my self a 69 charger is a 318 car its a T5 with T3 Interior, but it a mess
Almost all the body work must be replaced! Rear Quarter,  Frontfenders! ,Trunk Floor,Front Valance,
Rear Valance Panel
The Floorbords are solid and good, Trunk is gone but that is with most 69 chargers!

Now my question to you guys here is what would you do?
Restore or look further for a better 69 charger
Because I wanted to put a 440ci in it then I must also replace a the performance stuff to high performance
this car is STOCK!! 904 trans and all car has A01 light package

If I would restore it I would not sell it any more!!
Plan is to make a Lee3 out of it I know that is a RT/SE car

Maybe my nickname says that I am a dealer of some kind in this stuff but I am not, Just a Mopar Fan

Price is 8.000 euro ( but this can go lower he sad just a asking price) about 10.652.00 Dollars with you guys I know there are better cars around for that same price, but here in the Netherlands there are bit Expectief some times

I think this car is not worth more then 4.000 euro
What do you guys think?

Maybe he can better jump it because it looks like it

or maybe you guys know the history about this 69 charger
Owner sad it was standing  still for years about 25 years
zins 1985 my birth year in a Wearhouse!

here are some pictures of it: It is the same body color as my profile picture when new in 69 only that was a R/T SE Charger

[Darkman]

AMD will be your best friend  Lots of work there and 8000 euro is uite expensive for something in that condition. Talk him down in price, if not look elsewhere

[Mikesmoparperformance]

AMD will be your best friend   Lots of work there and 8000 euro is uite expensive for something in that condition. Talk him down in price, if not look elsewhere

I was just looking ad AMD Best friend in deed sheet metal won't be a problem but it still cost much indeed it is worth to do if it was a RT yes but 318 ,and I don't know if the Frame is straight or bent ? Maybe he will go lower in price with out the 318 blok I don't need it 

[elacruze]

That's way too much money. I know you're far and shipping is costly, but ask around and I think you'll look for a nicer car for less money.

[69*F5*SE]

I say keep searching. 

[GlottisLT]

You better still keep looking other cars. Even with shipping prices to Europe ATM it's kinda BIG price.

[Mikesmoparperformance]

That's way too much money. I know you're far and shipping is costly, but ask around and I think you'll look for a nicer car for less money.

I say keep searching.  

You better still keep looking other cars. Even with shipping prices to Europe ATM it's kinda BIG price.

Thanks Guys I will Keep looking I have made a Price about what the parts will cost me and thats is high indeed !! 8.000  for the car is to high I agree  3 a 4 I will do , but not more indeed Thanks for the advice on this car

[six-tee-nine]

Whell as a fellow member on the Euro side of the world I need to chime in.

I'm sorry to dissapoint you (and lots of US members to) but over here that is the price. Heck 4 years back I even paid more then you did and I got no engine (mine's an R/T altough).
However if you have the time and balls to check across the pond then you can find way more car for the same money. You even get more dollars for the amount of Euros you have in your bank account.

I will put it in another way : If you want to buy a roject like that, then buy one in the US. You will sureley pay less and since you buy a project, the chanses of getting screwed drop.
If you want to sped the same amount on a car in the US then I suggest you go and check it out yourself. A plain ticket will cost you around € 500 and trust me you can get screwed for alot more than that.

If you need more info then shoot me a PM then we can talk in Dutch (typing goes alot faster then and less typo's to)

[Mikesmoparperformance]

Thanks for the Advice!

[MoparManJim]

I say any charger is worth to restore spite what the heck package or opinions they came with as they are all one thing... the old chargers  , they don't make these cars anymore so that to me they are worth restoring no mater what they was opinion with  . But with you being way out there I would say look around for a charger that is close to your price range though and is what you like. Good luck to you 

[Mike DC]

 
I agree with the rest of the crowd. 

This car itself is restorable.  But the asking price is way too much for what you will be getting to start with.



If you want to really be smart with your money, then don't "restore" a car at all.  Buy a very good condition car to start with, and spend what you have to spend to repaint & change it how you want.  In the long run it is usually much cheaper to spend more up front than to do a full restoration.

 

[Mikesmoparperformance]

I say any charger is worth to restore spite what the heck package or opinions they came with as they are all one thing... the old chargers   , they don't make these cars anymore so that to me they are worth restoring no mater what they was opinion with  . But with you being way out there I would say look around for a charger that is close to your price range though and is what you like. Good luck to you  

If you look it that way that is true they  don't make them any more indeed.
I would love to do it but the asking price is to high for it  If the owner ask les then it is worth to do so
but like the others say look around for a better on

No one has seen this car before any where in de US?

[Mikesmoparperformance]

 
I agree with the rest of the crowd.  

This car itself is restorable.  But the asking price is way too much for what you will be getting to start with.



If you want to really be smart with your money, then don't "restore" a car at all.  Buy a very good condition car to start with, and spend what you have to spend to repaint & change it how you want.  In the long run it is usually much cheaper to spend more up front than to do a full restoration.

 

What is the car worth you think? that is the best thing to do there are better ones out there but not all has a factory T3 thats is hard to find.

That would be better, but when do a full restoration and the car is Finish everything is new again and you won't have problems or other things to worry about.
I would look further this one is to high in price for the shape it is in

[Darkman]

Unfortunately most of the money in that 8000 euro is in shipping. I thought about purchasing a complete car from the US and it would have cost me another $6000 to ship it over. The charger I am getting has no motor or trans but the body is in great condition. All panels are original so I was willing to pay the money for it. Minimal body work means more money can be spent on the motor and trans!

[Mike DC]

What is the car worth you think? that is the best thing to do there are better ones out there but not all has a factory T3 thats is hard to find.

That would be better, but when do a full restoration and the car is Finish everything is new again and you won't have problems or other things to worry about.
I would look further this one is to high in price for the shape it is in

I don't want to guess at exactly what that car is worth.  The value partially depends on where you are located, and I also do not pay close attention to the market these days.  But I think 8000 euro is over the line for that car. 


Anyone who has restored a car before will usually agree that it's cheaper to buy one in good condition.  The indirect and unexpected costs of the resto will virtually always add up too high to make the resto worth the money spent.  This is why most restorations that are done for-profit are only done on cars with VERY valuable VIN numbers.  I like to see 318 Chargers saved as much as anyone else, but a major ground-up restoration is not the best use of your money in this case. 

Even with the best restoration you will have problems and things to work on.  These cars are almost never really "done."  The factory didn't build the pieces to tight modern production tolerances in the first place.  They did not design them to last more than 3-5 years originally and it shows in the mechanical parts of the car.  The replacement parts you get today are not always very good stuff.  Modern reproductions of the "soft" parts like vinyl or rubber tend to be better than the original stuff was from the 1960s, but all the "hard" metal parts are usually worse.     


As for the factory Saddle Tan interior - it's a nice bonus but don't weigh it too heavily.   You will be replacing most of what remains of that car's interior just to make it nice again.  You will end up putting in 80-90% of the work of changing the interior color even if it comes in factory Saddle Tan.   
   

[tricky lugnuts]

I agree with your assessment: It's not worth more than 4,000 euro, at least it wouldn't be to me. But what's a euro going for today, about $1.30 and possibly falling?

Assuming $1.35 per euro, that's a $5,400 car in the U.S.

If you shop in the U.S. you might find a better one for slightly less. But then you're going to have pay - I'm guessing - at least $2,000 to ship it back home, plus taxes, titles, etc. And then your real work begins.

The car doesn't look too bad to me as long as you know what you're getting into. In fact, depending on how skilled you are in the automotive field, it doesn't look that bad at all, assuming all the frame rails are good.

There's some banged up sheet metal on that ride, a twisted rear bumper, some roof corners that need work, an interior that needs redone (at least most of it), a lot of cleaning and painting, and lots, repeat LOTS of mechanicals that probably need gone through...

It all depends on your budget, how much work you can do yourself, and how exacting your standards are going to be in terms of making everything "perfect."

It's the color you like, albeit a plain Jane Charger and not an R/T or R/T SE. As long as your not going for a concours correct show car, who cares about that? 

It's also there already, negating the need for expensive shipping and airline flight and hotel rooms to see a car in person here in the states.

If you can score it for 4,000 euro or preferably less, say 3,000 euro, I'd say go for it. But only if you've: completely inspected it from top to bottom (better than the pictures show) to make sure there are minimal hidden surprises; fully assessed the financial realities of this project; and realize it's going to be a lot of work and a lot of money to make anything out of it. And that you might not be able to fully recoup your investment in the future.

[Chad L. Magee]

 
I agree with the rest of the crowd.  

This car itself is restorable.  But the asking price is way too much for what you will be getting to start with.



If you want to really be smart with your money, then don't "restore" a car at all.  Buy a very good condition car to start with, and spend what you have to spend to repaint & change it how you want.  In the long run it is usually much cheaper to spend more up front than to do a full restoration.

 

What is the car worth you think? that is the best thing to do there are better ones out there but not all has a factory T3 thats is hard to find.

That would be better, but when do a full restoration and the car is Finish everything is new again and you won't have problems or other things to worry about.
I would look further this one is to high in price for the shape it is in

It is definately not worth that amount over here in the US, but if you figure the car + shipping over to europe, I can see where it would get a larger price tag (still not worth it in my opinion).  The owners are probably using the demand vs. supply factor to bump up the price.  It would be better to wait for a nicer Charger to work with.  If you are going to build a General Lee clone, it would be better to start with a non-RT (ie. 318 or 383) Charger as those were typically used during the series production for the TV show.  I have seen an original 1968 Charger RT 4-speed that got transformed into a General Lee clone (a rather poor one at that ) by the owner, a big mistake......

I did not think that T3 was that rare of an exterior color in 69.  The RT/SE auto shell that I traded off to a friend had that exterior color....

[CB]

I agree with your assessment: It's not worth more than 4,000 euro, at least it wouldn't be to me. But what's a euro going for today, about $1.30 and possibly falling?

Assuming $1.35 per euro, that's a $5,400 car in the U.S.

Sorry, 8000 Euro is 10,400 US$ today.

For that cash you can spend a holiday in the States, buy a project you saw in person and ship it to Rotterdam.
Shipping from LA to Rotterdam cost you 1200-1400 bucks (March '08 price)

[Belgium R/T -68]

If driving is what you want to do, then buy a driver and fix it along the way. Restoring a car today, especially for us in Europe is very costly and timeconsuming for that reason. If the restoration itself isn't the thing you like the risc is big you get fed up before
you are done.

Per

[Mikesmoparperformance]

I agree with your assessment: It's not worth more than 4,000 euro, at least it wouldn't be to me. But what's a euro going for today, about $1.30 and possibly falling?

Assuming $1.35 per euro, that's a $5,400 car in the U.S.

Sorry, 8000 Euro is 10,400 US$ today.

For that cash you can spend a holiday in the States, buy a project you saw in person and ship it to Rotterdam.
Shipping from LA to Rotterdam cost you 1200-1400 bucks (March '08 price)

That is correct Shipping is about that price I have checkt that.

[Mikesmoparperformance]

What is the car worth you think? that is the best thing to do there are better ones out there but not all has a factory T3 thats is hard to find.

That would be better, but when do a full restoration and the car is Finish everything is new again and you won't have problems or other things to worry about.
I would look further this one is to high in price for the shape it is in

Even with the best restoration you will have problems and things to work on.  These cars are almost never really "done."  The factory didn't build the pieces to tight modern production tolerances in the first place.  They did not design them to last more than 3-5 years originally and it shows in the mechanical parts of the car.  The replacement parts you get today are not always very good stuff.  Modern reproductions of the "soft" parts like vinyl or rubber tend to be better than the original stuff was from the 1960s, but all the "hard" metal parts are usually worse.      


As for the factory Saddle Tan interior - it's a nice bonus but don't weigh it too heavily.   You will be replacing most of what remains of that car's interior just to make it nice again.  You will end up putting in 80-90% of the work of changing the interior color even if it comes in factory Saddle Tan.    
   

you are Right about that price way to much, that would be the best thing to do restore R/T they are more valuable Then the 318 chargers.

I agree with you on that, that most reproductions are worse then they where in 1969! thats way most people start with the best base they can find on a 69 charger, because then you can re use parts that where made in 1969

Well I was looking for the  factory Saddle Tan interior because not al interior parts you can buy (small things)
the back seat is missing in the photo's but he has it in his garage! all the parts of the interior are there expert for the dash is not a 100% complet.
But yes most parts I will replace if I bought the car indeed that is true

[Mikesmoparperformance]

I agree with your assessment: It's not worth more than 4,000 euro, at least it wouldn't be to me. But what's a euro going for today, about $1.30 and possibly falling?

Assuming $1.35 per euro, that's a $5,400 car in the U.S.

If you shop in the U.S. you might find a better one for slightly less. But then you're going to have pay - I'm guessing - at least $2,000 to ship it back home, plus taxes, titles, etc. And then your real work begins.

The car doesn't look too bad to me as long as you know what you're getting into. In fact, depending on how skilled you are in the automotive field, it doesn't look that bad at all, assuming all the frame rails are good.

There's some banged up sheet metal on that ride, a twisted rear bumper, some roof corners that need work, an interior that needs redone (at least most of it), a lot of cleaning and painting, and lots, repeat LOTS of mechanicals that probably need gone through...

It all depends on your budget, how much work you can do yourself, and how exacting your standards are going to be in terms of making everything "perfect."

It's the color you like, albeit a plain Jane Charger and not an R/T or R/T SE. As long as your not going for a concours correct show car, who cares about that?  

It's also there already, negating the need for expensive shipping and airline flight and hotel rooms to see a car in person here in the states.

If you can score it for 4,000 euro or preferably less, say 3,000 euro, I'd say go for it. But only if you've: completely inspected it from top to bottom (better than the pictures show) to make sure there are minimal hidden surprises; fully assessed the financial realities of this project; and realize it's going to be a lot of work and a lot of money to make anything out of it. And that you might not be able to fully recoup your investment in the future.

That is about the price for the shipping 2.000  say 1.500 euro's but still that can be cheaper! I have hurt
The frame rails are oke! only the sheetmetal is not, trunk is gone! frame rails look good
the only thing was this one.



Looks like is it broken or it is the body coating  

4.000 is a nice price 3.000 even better, but he sad he brought it him self for about 7.500 euro!! with no running engine the original engine he has a well in his garage! the engine that is in the car now, he brought that one some where
Well a seller can say anything ofcourse, so I don't think he will sell that car for 4.000

The plan was to built a LEE 3 Georgia Style GL because thats the only LEE With the factor Tan and headrest
but that was original a RT/SE Car 440ci

[CB]

You want to buy a project to transform into a Lee or do you want a Charger that runs so you can enjoy/build while working on it?

Anyhow, it cost you way more then you will ever expect to spend. Way more.

(replacing an old rusty part usually means replacing another part because it broke off, worn out, don't fit right, etc etc. you'll need everything on that car)

This project is a huge , sorry HUGE project that will eat your bank account, your savings, Visa card, your last dime. And you will not be driving soon. Or maybe you have a very rich sugar uncle who can help you with the cash flow.


      look familiar? Get used to it when you want this kind of project car.

Way better options/projects out there...

[Mikesmoparperformance]

You want to buy a project to transform into a Lee or do you want a Charger that runs so you can enjoy/build while working on it?

Built a LEE!!

Anyhow, it cost you way more then you will ever expect to spend. Way more.

(replacing an old rusty part usually means replacing another part because it broke off, worn out, don't fit right, etc etc. you'll need everything on that car)

This project is a huge , sorry HUGE project that will eat your bank account, your savings, Visa card, your last dime. And you will not be driving soon. Or maybe you have a very rich sugar uncle who can help you with the cash flow.


      look familiar? Get used to it when you want this kind of project car.

Way better options/projects out there...

I sure will look futher for a better one and No I do not have a rich uncle, And I am not in a hury to drive the building it up if fun
This car runs also, but only the Engine! Brak are bad!
Thanks for the Advice!!

[jeryst]

If you are going to build a GL, using a 318 car is the way to go.

Why dont you just find out exactly how much everything will cost to bring a car from the states.

Then, look at the prices of comparable cars in the US, and add everything up. If its cheaper to buy that one
then buy it. If its cheaper to ship one, then do that. Just remember to figure in the cost of you coming over
here to check it out and handle things in person.

I also wouldnt worry about the tan interior. All of the big interior items are available so the only things you will
need to worry about are the small items. The vinyl dyes today are very good, and you can hardly tell the difference.

Also remember that cash talks. If you walk up to him with 5000 euros cash, he just may take it, especially if he has
had it for sale for a while.

Too bad you are not interested in a 70. I have one in better shape than that one, for a lot less money, and it comes with a running 440,
a 383, a 331 Hemi, and two 727 trannys.