More complications

[Daytona R/T SE]

http://stores.ebay.com/MOPAR-THERAMMAN-BRAKES

http://www.theramman.com/iframe.html

worth a shot 

[b5blue]

In my experience that's all wrong? The master looks like a drum brake master (both "cups" for fluid are the same size one should be larger and the top should be the type with bale wire type holder, it's rounded in front and taller) the booster should be a single diaphragm type, whatever booster you had would be same....Now keep in mind what's up with SSBC I don't know but disk should have 1 reservoir larger than the other as they use a greater volume of fluid to move both pistons.   

[RTDaddy]

I just ordered a master cyl/booster assembly from Napa for a 70 E-body, and it came with the master cyinder shown, (equal reservoirs).  That is the master cylinder for a drum brake car, as others have stated, the disc brak master cyls have a much larger front reservoir because of the volume of fluid needed to move the pistons.  When yu ask for the dis master cyl, Napa shows the right thing.  Obviously there have been some numbers superseeded.  I know a couple of guys that have the drum m/c operating a stock disc set-up, but I can't help but think that they are nearly running out of fliud every time.  I would think that the only way the drum m/c would work reliably with the SSBC system is if the SSBC pistons are significantly smaller that stock.

"IF YOU'RE UNDER CONTROL, YOU AIN'T GOING FAST ENOUGH."

[70charginglizard]

In my experience that's all wrong? The master looks like a drum brake master (both "cups" for fluid are the same size one should be larger and the top should be the type with bale wire type holder, it's rounded in front and taller) the booster should be a single diaphragm type, whatever booster you had would be same....Now keep in mind what's up with SSBC I don't know but disk should have 1 reservoir larger than the other as they use a greater volume of fluid to move both pistons.  

I'm not sure the master cylinder I posted above is the exact one they actually had at the shop. The last time I saw it (Tuesday) the one they had looks kinda like that one and it's the one they said that SSBC told them to use. The top looked a lot like the one I have photo'd above but it did seem to have a larger resevoir on one side as you mensioned above.

At this point I'm much more concerned with them getting the correct booster now that will work with what ever M/C it is that they are trying to use that looks similar to the one I show above as I dont want to have them get that wrong booster again and then have to charge me for more labor time again if it's not the correct one this time. I'm just going to tell them on Monday to be sure to coordinate with SSBC what ever Booster they decide to use. That way they can blame it on SSBC if it doesnt work out instead of me.

Sorry guys. It is just too difficult to work this out without having the car right here in front of me (which it is not) and the shops been closed all weekend and most of the week.  If I could I'd shoot you all pics of the master cylinder they were told by SSBC to use but I don't have that ability at this moment. Perhaps Monday night.

[68coronetGLwannabe]

Here is the booster I have from NAPA 69 Charger power brakes #5473603 M/C #36283

[68coronetGLwannabe]

M/C #36283. The picture of the M/C you posted looks like the first one NAPA sold which was for a 69. I returned it for this one which I believe was for a 70 rear drum front disc. Hope this helps

[skip68]

That looks just like the one I have on mine Wade.      The lines come out on the fender side and is correctomundo. 

[70charginglizard]

Wade,

That master cylinder you have photographed is the exact same one I had on my old brake set up when it was all drum front and back. I had that exact same M/C on it with a booster that I was told was appropriate for a power all drum brake system.

After the shop that did my new SSBC brake upgrade got everything together and still couldnt get it to stop properly they told me that they think it was because I had the wrong Master cylinder. So I hesitantly allowed them to change it out to what they and SSBC thought the SSBC disk brake set up needed. Still didn't work for them after that. So they came back at me last week to indicate that they think it's because I have the wrong Booster for the SSBC disk brake system.

Thats where I'm at now.

I'm just going to let them figure it out from here. I have a feeling that it wasnt the master cylinder that they should have changed out first... it was the booster.

Either way I still have that same old master cylinder you've photo above so I don't think I need that otherwise I'll just have another duplicate of the old one I had previous to this feasco.

I'm going to just let the shop do whatever they think they need to do in regards to the booster. Who knows. maybe they'll figure this out.

[68coronetGLwannabe]

 I read just about every thread on this site about SSBC conv. kit. There seems to be more unhappy customers than happy ones. Most of the problems I read about were about the M/C not the booster. I'm very happy with them now that I went to manual setup. I bought a conv. kit off ebay for my 68 Coronet that is a single piston caliper and half the price of SSBC and works just as good. I would have bought this set for my Charger had I read all the negative stuff about SSBC first.The master M/C I used for both cars is from Autozone for a 71 charger f/disc R/drum #NM1493(new) #M1628 (Reman). It doesn't specify man. or power so I assume they are the same. I hope they figure it out for you.   

[b5blue]

Yup the FSM's photos show that booster as a tandem.

[70charginglizard]

I read just about every thread on this site about SSBC conv. kit. There seems to be more unhappy customers than happy ones. Most of the problems I read about were about the M/C not the booster. I'm very happy with them now that I went to manual setup. I bought a conv. kit off ebay for my 68 Coronet that is a single piston caliper and half the price of SSBC and works just as good. I would have bought this set for my Charger had I read all the negative stuff about SSBC first.The master M/C I used for both cars is from Autozone for a 71 charger f/disc R/drum #NM1493(new) #M1628 (Reman). It doesn't specify man. or power so I assume they are the same. I hope they figure it out for you.  

these SSBC kits must work on something with power brake set ups or else how could they be selling them.

Do Chevy and Ford motors produce a bigger vaccum in there motors then us mopar people? Wonder if there is a way to up the vaccum somehow?

I'm still kicking myself in the butt for only purchasing the "at the wheel" kit. I should have just got the complete one with M/C and Booster and seen what that did instead of fighting the m/c,booster,vaccum issues here.
May or may not have made a difference but at least that way we could have had SSBC explain more to us why it's not working.

you better link me to that e-bay single piston caliper system just in case I have to go this route. Man that sucks though.

bty- those 2 autozone m/c's you point to to above.... #M1628 looks almost exactly like the M/C you have pictured above according to autozones web site and the other one #M16493 looks like it just has two of the same size resevoirs? hummm. That cant be good.

[b5blue]

I am thinking they got you a tandem booster and that is the problem, your car with all 10" drum would be a Midland i think. (mine was/is and same in 69 also) 

[70charginglizard]

I am thinking they got you a tandem booster and that is the problem, your car with all 10" drum would be a Midland i think. (mine was/is and same in 69 also)  

This is not a very good pic but this is the booster and master cylinder that was in the car before I started any of this disk brake conversion stuff-
(this booster is still in there)



They have been testing different master cylinders against this booster.


I'm pretty sure this booster is this NAPA one-

Part Number:   NBB 5473603  
Attributes   Diaphragm Diameter : 8 3/4"
Diaphragm Type : Dual Diaphragm
OE Manufacturer : Bendix
Engines : 7.2 L 440 CID V8
Brake System Types : Front Disc / Rear Drum Brakes


sure looks like the same one to me.

[b5blue]

Everything you "had" shows correct in my FSM (I tried to insert photos of my books pages but no good) Now I am thinking booster to master rod adjustment and residual pressure valve (in master cylinder)as mentioned in "disco tech" article. Both would load up pressure in the calipers but how that would appear/manifest in use I don't know.  (your old master looked OK for disk)

[69chargerR/T]

The booster thats on your car now is the right booster for disc brakes, and so is the master cylinder. The booster for drum/ drum brakes is the midland ross witch is a single diaphragm booster . Front disc/drum brakes use the bendix witch is a dual diaphragm booster.  The bendix booster is very hard to find, the pic on the napa site shows the correct bendix booster but, what they send you is not a bendix booster. It will work and function just as good as the bendix booster, but will not look exactly the same.  The people that rebuild the boosters for most parts place's can not get the correct bendix boosters anymore, so they send you one that looks close to the bendix booster. From the last pic you posted you have a disc brake booster and master cylinder, so your problem is not that. What are you running for a cam in your car, do you know the specs. on it ??  what are you using for a proportioning valve on your car ??   

[roger440]

Im struggling to remember the exact problem, i think it was a very sensitive pedal, but its a mismatch between the master cylinder piston sizing and the calipers. Hence why we changed the master.

[68coronetGLwannabe]

I read just about every thread on this site about SSBC conv. kit. There seems to be more unhappy customers than happy ones. Most of the problems I read about were about the M/C not the booster. I'm very happy with them now that I went to manual setup. I bought a conv. kit off ebay for my 68 Coronet that is a single piston caliper and half the price of SSBC and works just as good. I would have bought this set for my Charger had I read all the negative stuff about SSBC first.The master M/C I used for both cars is from Autozone for a 71 charger f/disc R/drum #NM1493(new) #M1628 (Reman). It doesn't specify man. or power so I assume they are the same. I hope they figure it out for you.  

these SSBC kits must work on something with power brake set ups or else how could they be selling them.

Do Chevy and Ford motors produce a bigger vaccum in there motors then us mopar people? Wonder if there is a way to up the vaccum somehow?

I'm still kicking myself in the butt for only purchasing the "at the wheel" kit. I should have just got the complete one with M/C and Booster and seen what that did instead of fighting the m/c,booster,vaccum issues here.
May or may not have made a difference but at least that way we could have had SSBC explain more to us why it's not working.

you better link me to that e-bay single piston caliper system just in case I have to go this route. Man that sucks though.

bty- those 2 autozone m/c's you point to to above.... #M1628 looks almost exactly like the M/C you have pictured above according to autozones web site and the other one #M16493 looks like it just has two of the same size resevoirs? hummm. That cant be good.

All the M/C's I purchased had 2 diff. sized resevoirs. The biggest diff. was the piston in The Napa one sticks out the back about a quarter inch while the other are recessed about a a quarter inch. I believe the bore sizes were about 1/8 diff. max. The disk/drum M/C should have a built in residual pressure valve for the rears but not in the fronts. My biggest problem was not enough vaccum for power brakes. From what I have read here on SSBC is some got them to work with power and some not,so some guy have figured out the perfect combo. With my low vaccum the only option I had was manual or spend a bunch of money on a hydro boost system. I feel your pain because I fought with mine for about a 2 week before giving up and going manual.

Here is the set I purchased for my 68 Coronet

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mopar-Disc-Brake-Conversion-Kit-Chrysler-B-E-Body-62-72_W0QQitemZ220533679395QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3358d4e523

[Ghoste]

These are all the factory part numbers I see for a power booster in a 1970 Charger.  I'm not real good at reading these parts books though so I hope someone will correct it if I've screwed it up.
For just drums- 3004 622
With disc and Hemi- 2881 801
Drum and Hemi- 2944 160
Drum and no Hemi- 3004 608

And the one I believe you are looking for,  Bendix- 2883 056

Late to the party it seems but there they are anyway.

[70charginglizard]

I read just about every thread on this site about SSBC conv. kit. There seems to be more unhappy customers than happy ones. Most of the problems I read about were about the M/C not the booster. I'm very happy with them now that I went to manual setup. I bought a conv. kit off ebay for my 68 Coronet that is a single piston caliper and half the price of SSBC and works just as good. I would have bought this set for my Charger had I read all the negative stuff about SSBC first.The master M/C I used for both cars is from Autozone for a 71 charger f/disc R/drum #NM1493(new) #M1628 (Reman). It doesn't specify man. or power so I assume they are the same. I hope they figure it out for you.  

these SSBC kits must work on something with power brake set ups or else how could they be selling them.

Do Chevy and Ford motors produce a bigger vaccum in there motors then us mopar people? Wonder if there is a way to up the vaccum somehow?

I'm still kicking myself in the butt for only purchasing the "at the wheel" kit. I should have just got the complete one with M/C and Booster and seen what that did instead of fighting the m/c,booster,vaccum issues here.
May or may not have made a difference but at least that way we could have had SSBC explain more to us why it's not working.

you better link me to that e-bay single piston caliper system just in case I have to go this route. Man that sucks though.

bty- those 2 autozone m/c's you point to to above.... #M1628 looks almost exactly like the M/C you have pictured above according to autozones web site and the other one #M16493 looks like it just has two of the same size resevoirs? hummm. That cant be good.

All the M/C's I purchased had 2 diff. sized resevoirs. The biggest diff. was the piston in The Napa one sticks out the back about a quarter inch while the other are recessed about a a quarter inch. I believe the bore sizes were about 1/8 diff. max. The disk/drum M/C should have a built in residual pressure valve for the rears but not in the fronts. My biggest problem was not enough vaccum for power brakes. From what I have read here on SSBC is some got them to work with power and some not,so some guy have figured out the perfect combo. With my low vaccum the only option I had was manual or spend a bunch of money on a hydro boost system. I feel your pain because I fought with mine for about a 2 week before giving up and going manual.

Here is the set I purchased for my 68 Coronet

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mopar-Disc-Brake-Conversion-Kit-Chrysler-B-E-Body-62-72_W0QQitemZ220533679395QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3358d4e523

So when you went manual you still couldnt get thie SSBC calipers to function properly? I'm trying to understand why you felt you had to change out the calipers from SSBC to this set? Did you return your calipers to SSBC for a return when you did this and when you bought this other set were you able to just get the calipers from them or did you have to order everything from this other company? I guess my basic question to you now is....Did you discover that you had to change out the calipers before or after you removed the booster and went manual?

I have a very similar six pack crane cam as you so I'm assuming I'm having this low vaccum condition as well and may need to direct my shop to look into this and perhaps go manual instead because I'm not putting that hydroboost system on my car. It just wouldnt look right.  Not sure what my vaccum number is yet. I'll have them check that out today and get back with you. From what I've read in other posts about the SSBC system it needs a minimum of 14-16 pounds of pressure to function properly. Not sure if that applies to the specific kit I have or not as I'm really not sure which one it is. All I have is a kit number. (BRAW156) Dont know what pressure number applied to it.

[68coronetGLwannabe]

So when you went manual you still couldnt get thie SSBC calipers to function properly? I'm trying to understand why you felt you had to change out the calipers from SSBC to this set? Did you return your calipers to SSBC for a return when you did this and when you bought this other set were you able to just get the calipers from them or did you have to order everything from this other company? I guess my basic question to you now is....Did you discover that you had to change out the calipers before or after you removed the booster and went manual?

I have a very similar six pack crane cam as you so I'm assuming I'm having this low vaccum condition as well and may need to direct my shop to look into this and perhaps go manual instead because I'm not putting that hydroboost system on my car. It just wouldnt look right.  Not sure what my vaccum number is yet. I'll have them check that out today and get back with you. From what I've read in other posts about the SSBC system it needs a minimum of 14-16 pounds of pressure to function properly. Not sure if that applies to the specific kit I have or not as I'm really not sure which one it is. All I have is a kit number. (BRAW156) Dont know what pressure number applied to it.

I  did the SSBC on my 69 charger and they work fine since I converted them to Manual.The SSBC kit I purchased came with booster and m/c, but it was a universal 8 in booster.I returned the booster and m/c because you had to modify and drill new holes to make it fit. That's when I purchased the NAPA booster and M/C some of the guys here are running and still couldn't make the car stop. Went to manual brake setup and works great.

The other set I bought was for my 68 Coronet which is  manual brakes from the factory. This was the set from eBay that was 1/2 the price of the SSBC kit and just a single piston setup. The only reason I metioned this eBay set was because I was very upset with all the trouble I had with the SSBC kit. Sorry if I made it sound like I replaced the SSBC kit with the other eBay one because I didn't. I have 2 cars both with diff. disc conversions.

[DJF]

The next call will probably be a "well we got another booster in there but it's stiill not working right Dont know why or they will put some aftermarket looking booster in there that will look completely cheesy and I will have to spend more money to swap out again later with the correct one.

Im just getting frustrated on all this. labor bill is running thru the roof by now and I just want my car back.

yep I so feel these frustrations.

I got a 70-B body charger same as yours, factory drum powered car. I installed a full SSBC kit hard Pedal and no stopping. Went down the Brake Booster route I had 2 of them both different makes. both held pressure. Im concluded its not the booster at fault. Further reading on here made me question the bore size of the master clyinder and I believe this to be where the problem really is.

Now I think im right in saying you need more line pressure to power dics properly. The linkage for the OE drum system looks like ur just giving away leverage and i wouldnt be al all suprsed if goin manual works muich better because this does away with that linkage for a more direct approach?

Neways I wish I could give u a part number for a Master cylinder and say that will fix it but I cant. I got so P****ed off I bought a hydro boost with a new master cylinder. this kit has a direct link straight to the pedal without that mess in the middle. Car stops now. Really Stops!!!!

Not the answer really though. You pay all that money for the SSBC kit and you do expect it to work out the box.   

[70charginglizard]

Well my mechanic thinks he can get it working with the change out of the booster.

I guess I'll just let him try to do his thing. If he gets in working I'll try to find out what he did to get it to work.

If he doesnt get it working I supose I'll just limp it home and take it from there. Going manual if all else fails. 

[b5blue]

Bummer....I had no idea SSBC was such a pain! I went with factory stuff because I'm cheap. I sure hope there are no surprises waiting for me when I do my swap. 

[69bronzeT5]

Things could be worse. Your car could be in 10,000 pieces like many guys here.

Or you could have a stupid 10 year old kid shoot a staple from a staple gun into the sidewall of your BF Goodrich Radial T/A....don't ask.

[69rtse4spd]

Oh, we want to know.