More complications

[70charginglizard]

Well got more news today from the shop on the liz. Apparently the booster I bought from a friend of mine aint gonna work. It's for a 71 b-body with power disk and not 70 b-body with power disk. bolt spacing is different. So I get to wait again. So much for a celebrating 2010 New years day cruize this year. Shops gonna have to order up the correct booster now. Who knows how long thats gonna take. Cars been away for nearly a month now and it looks like its going to go on into the coming year. I guess patience is a vertue but I sure would like to have my car back at home. Spent all day today cleaning up the garage for its homecomming...Looks like that aint happening now.

[skip68]

Man, that sucks.   

[bull]

Things could be worse. Your car could be in 10,000 pieces like many guys here.

[Cooter]

Or Snowed under till at least spring.....

[Sublime/Sixpack]

Hang in there.

[1969chargerrtse]

Yeah, been there done that. I found it very frustrating at first. Then I thought about how the car is 40 years old and the days of finding parts in stock are long gone. Bottom line is it's all worth the wait. Hang in there and be thrilled to be a 70 Charger owner.   

[71ChallengeHer]

Kelly, Good Luck with the Liz. Mine won't go out for a drive tomorrow either. It's snowed this morning and has been raining all nite.

[70charginglizard]

Yeah, been there done that. I found it very frustrating at first. Then I thought about how the car is 40 years old and the days of finding parts in stock are long gone. Bottom line is it's all worth the wait. Hang in there and be thrilled to be a 70 Charger owner.    

I supose I'm not helping the matter much. I wont let him put any after market looking thing in the engine bay. Told him it has to look correct. Everytime I say that I up the weeks it has to be there but oh well. Cant have no ford or chevy parts on the liz.

Thaks for the words of encouragement though.

[b5blue]

Hang tuff....It's worth getting right. I drove for years with a correct yet wrong (?) booster in my 70 and when I found a shop that cared and got the right unit I about knocked my teeth out on first test! 

[70charginglizard]

Hang tuff....It's worth getting right. I drove for years with a correct yet wrong (?) booster in my 70 and when I found a shop that cared and got the right unit I about knocked my teeth out on first test!  

You happen to know where your shop got that correct booster from? I was just on the Napa site looking around and they seem to show two different systems for brake boosters. One for hemi and one for the other engines but oddly they dont seem to indicate that the 70 chargers came with a "disk" brake system. There numbers only show appicablility to 4 wheel drum systems on 70 chargers-

http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Results.aspx?Ntt=brake%20booster&Ntk=Keyword&N=599001+101970+50020+2020008

which I know is BS because according to my decoder book the 70 charger could come with front disks (B41) it just required the power brake option (B51) had to be included as well. So if this is the case then why does napa not show a front disk system in there part ordering guide?

They do for 71 chargers-
http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Results.aspx?Ntt=brake%20booster&Ntk=Keyword&N=599001+101971+50020+2020008



this is where all the confusement is coming from. the guys at my shop seem to think the boosters are different from a  power drum brake system booster and a power disk brake booster on 70 chargers. I dont believe this is the case but I dont know how to prove this to them.

[b5blue]

FSM shows 3: Midland Ross = drum, Bendix (both single diaphragm)=drum, Bendix "tandem diaphragm"= disk and drum "hemi only" (?)(is the narrower longer one with extra bracket seen in engine bay) So exactly what is correct for you I do not know. First NAPA sold me a Bendix single dia. exchanged for a Midland I had, it worked but poorly (keep in mind after 8 years as a drag race only car I removed clutch peddle manual break set-up and changed back to power break auto set-up out of a 69 that matched FSM perfectly). As my car new was 10" drum. A local shop 2 years later was helping me with a un-related problem and saw the Charger, was interested and after talking to them gave me a Midland to try and said if it helped 90 bucks exchange. It worked...darn near busted my lip on the steering wheel it was soooo much more powerful I had to relearn stopping the car. Keep in mind the friendly local NAPA dealer probably is clueless on a 40 year old anything and I know their "books" records may be wrong from experience in some exchange/applications  situations.     

[Projekts]

Your shop is correct, the booster is different for drums and disks. I also have a 70 and when asking parts counter people sometimes you have to tell them it's a 69 because the booster you want shows up. I had NAPA order the Bendix booster twice and both times some ford booster with the same bolt pattern showed up. Check the salvage yards for the Bendix booster you are looking for, look at C bodies as well as the only difference in the booster is the pushrod which can be bought or machined to shorten it when you send it out to be rebuilt.

Check out this thread as well:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,53508.0.html

[70charginglizard]

FSM shows 3: Midland Ross = drum, Bendix (both single diaphragm)=drum, Bendix "tandem diaphragm"= disk and drum "hemi only" (?)(is the narrower longer one with extra bracket seen in engine bay) So exactly what is correct for you I do not know. First NAPA sold me a Bendix single dia. exchanged for a Midland I had, it worked but poorly (keep in mind after 8 years as a drag race only car I removed clutch peddle manual break set-up and changed back to power break auto set-up out of a 69 that matched FSM perfectly). As my car new was 10" drum. A local shop 2 years later was helping me with a un-related problem and saw the Charger, was interested and after talking to them gave me a Midland to try and said if it helped 90 bucks exchange. It worked...darn near busted my lip on the steering wheel it was soooo much more powerful I had to relearn stopping the car. Keep in mind the friendly local NAPA dealer probably is clueless on a 40 year old anything and I know their "books" records may be wrong from experience in some exchange/applications  situations.      

My system previously was an all drum power brake system.

I recently decided to convert to front disks (still have rear drums though)

I got the SSBC "at the wheel" front disk conversion it purchased thru Performance Suspension.

Thats where all the problems started. The shop doing the work for me said that I also need to change the master cylinder when going from front drums to front disk and that they would  need to put in a proportion valve. I gave them the go ahead with that as long as it looked mopar correct (no ford, chevy or aftermarket looking crap)

They finally tracked down a mopar disk brake master cylinder (so they say) and proportion valve put it in and got it all together but said its still not working right. He's saying that its having a Hard pedel condition and that they are suspecting that my power booster is the colprit. (Although it is holding pressure so I dont now why that woud be the cause) but they seem to think the boosters were different from drums to disk. Im not going to argue with them. Thereh the ones that have to track down this booster they think will make a difference. Not me. This problem is in there hands since they did the work. 

The next call will probably be a "well we got another booster in there but it's stiill not working right Dont know why or they will put some aftermarket looking booster in there that will look completely cheesy and I will have to spend more money to swap out again later with the correct one.

Im just getting frustrated on all this. labor bill is running thru the roof by now and I just want my car back.

[70charginglizard]

Your shop is correct, the booster is different for drums and disks. I also have a 70 and when asking parts counter people sometimes you have to tell them it's a 69 because the booster you want shows up. I had NAPA order the Bendix booster twice and both times some ford booster with the same bolt pattern showed up. Check the salvage yards for the Bendix booster you are looking for, look at C bodies as well as the only difference in the booster is the pushrod which can be bought or machined to shorten it when you send it out to be rebuilt.

Check out this thread as well:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,53508.0.html

Whats the difference between the two boosters? Is it something I can tell the shop so before they put it in they can be sure its correct. Last think I need is for them to replace with the same one I have in there now for drums and then I'll have more labor time added on to take it out again and replace with another one.

[Ghoste]

I can't get it for you until later today but would it be of any use to you to be able to tell them the Dodge factory part numbers for the 1970 boosters?

[Johnny SixPack]

Sorry to hear it, Kelly.

Yeah, I had my booster tribulations last year around April (there was also carb issues [d@mn you Holley!]).

Didn't get my girl back till freakin' July.

I was picky about the engine bay as well, and ended up just having my booster rebuilt.

Good luck!

[70charginglizard]

I can't get it for you until later today but would it be of any use to you to be able to tell them the Dodge factory part numbers for the 1970 boosters?

maybe....shoot the numbers at me and I'll feed those to the shop.

[Projekts]

Your shop is correct, the booster is different for drums and disks. I also have a 70 and when asking parts counter people sometimes you have to tell them it's a 69 because the booster you want shows up. I had NAPA order the Bendix booster twice and both times some ford booster with the same bolt pattern showed up. Check the salvage yards for the Bendix booster you are looking for, look at C bodies as well as the only difference in the booster is the pushrod which can be bought or machined to shorten it when you send it out to be rebuilt.

Check out this thread as well:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,53508.0.html

Whats the difference between the two boosters? Is it something I can tell the shop so before they put it in they can be sure its correct. Last think I need is for them to replace with the same one I have in there now for drums and then I'll have more labor time added on to take it out again and replace with another one.

The Midland Ross is a single diaphram, and the Bendix for disc brakes is a tandem diaphram. I don't know how your engine is set up but if it's too radical you won't be able to make the vacuum you need be hooking up directy to the intake. In your position I would consider hooking up the master cylinder without the booster for the time being, your car will stop just fine and it's easy enough to add later. If you take the booster out and your still getting a hard pedal it's probably because the shop didn't bleed the system or the bore on the master cylinder is too small. Get your car back and take some time to track the booster down.

[b5blue]

If he has the Z bar set-up he can't do that, the adjuster is in the booster and linkage is all different, that set-up changes the fulcrum pivot point . If you go to the Mopar Action disco tech section it may help clarify what your doing...it was a great help to me. My set-up is going to be that one...with 11 3/4 factory rotors and slider type calipers. All that is needed is the swap to the disk type master, the booster won't change. All he needs is the booster type the car came with and a disk master from any number of years. From experience I can say it must be adjusted properly, the rod out of the booster has a nut on the end and that must not press on the master but be just shy of it (or you loose peddle travel). It is better to be short and loose stroke that to not let the master return all the way back to at rest. That could be the problem. As for mine I have no idea what was up with the first one I had, it looked like the correct Bendix part but did not give much if any assist pressure. Keep in mind disk take greater peddle effort that's why the came powered so I fully expect my hyper sensitive drums to diminish somewhat after my change out. You just need the same booster for your car adjust correctly and a disk master with an adjustable proportioning valve to the rears. Good LucK   

[68coronetGLwannabe]

I recently did the SSBC front conversion. I did not have enough vaccum to work power brakes and went to manual. I bought a brand new Booster from NAPA Part#5473603 and new (not rebuilt) m/c #36283. This is for a 69 Charger front disc/rear drums. Take a look at NAPA online pics and if these would work for you I would give you a good deal because I will never use them.

[b5blue]

There ya go! If he don't want them PM me.

[Spike]

http://boosterdeweyexchange.com/

Might be able to help you out and he is out your way.

[roger440]

Your shop is correct, the booster is different for drums and disks. I also have a 70 and when asking parts counter people sometimes you have to tell them it's a 69 because the booster you want shows up. I had NAPA order the Bendix booster twice and both times some ford booster with the same bolt pattern showed up. Check the salvage yards for the Bendix booster you are looking for, look at C bodies as well as the only difference in the booster is the pushrod which can be bought or machined to shorten it when you send it out to be rebuilt.

Check out this thread as well:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,53508.0.html

Whats the difference between the two boosters? Is it something I can tell the shop so before they put it in they can be sure its correct. Last think I need is for them to replace with the same one I have in there now for drums and then I'll have more labor time added on to take it out again and replace with another one.

I had this problem with an SSBC kit on a customers car. It was a nitemare. In the end, we fitted a different master cylinder (internal diameter of bore) to correct the problem. If my memory serves, (it was 4 years ago) i finally got hold of someone at SSBC who knew what he was talking about and he said they did a different one for that purpose. They couldn't tell me why i got what i got though. It was ordered correct.

[70charginglizard]

Your shop is correct, the booster is different for drums and disks. I also have a 70 and when asking parts counter people sometimes you have to tell them it's a 69 because the booster you want shows up. I had NAPA order the Bendix booster twice and both times some ford booster with the same bolt pattern showed up. Check the salvage yards for the Bendix booster you are looking for, look at C bodies as well as the only difference in the booster is the pushrod which can be bought or machined to shorten it when you send it out to be rebuilt.

Check out this thread as well:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,53508.0.html

Whats the difference between the two boosters? Is it something I can tell the shop so before they put it in they can be sure its correct. Last think I need is for them to replace with the same one I have in there now for drums and then I'll have more labor time added on to take it out again and replace with another one.

I had this problem with an SSBC kit on a customers car. It was a nitemare. In the end, we fitted a different master cylinder (internal diameter of bore) to correct the problem. If my memory serves, (it was 4 years ago) i finally got hold of someone at SSBC who knew what he was talking about and he said they did a different one for that purpose. They couldn't tell me why i got what i got though. It was ordered correct.

So will this internal dia of bore master cylinder that SSBC recomended cause issues with the booster it has to connect to? Youve got me concerned now as I was going to go down and tell the shop today to get the 69 disk brake booster from NAPA  and connect the master cylinder that they said they had to have to that. which looks like the pic I'm attaching. This is the master cylinder they told  me they have to use with this SSBC disk brake system. The master cylinder that the shop has right now does not look like the one NAPA shows for the 69 disk brake set up. and the shop told me that when they were on the line with SSBC they told them that this is the master cylinder they have to use. Too bad they didn't tell them what the correct booster for this master cylinder they have now is.

master cylinder part Number:   TS 101323 
Application Information:   1970 Dodge Charger
Brake System Types : Front Disc / Rear Drum Brakes
Comments: w/ Power Brakes;w/ 11" Rear Brakes
Per Car Qty: 1

[70charginglizard]

So I guess my question now is:

Will this "master cylinder" that SSBC told my shop they have to use on the SSBC disk brake conversion kit-
master cylinder part Number:   TS 101323  
Application Information:   1970 Dodge Charger
Brake System Types : Front Disc / Rear Drum Brakes
Comments: w/ Power Brakes;w/ 11" Rear Brakes
Attributes   # of Line Ports : 2
Brake Master Cylinder Bore Size : 1.00000
Brake Master Cylinder Line Thread Size : 1/2-20,9/16-20
Finish : Rust-preventative Finish.

together with this "brake booster" NAPA shows is applicable to the 1969 dodge charger with front disks-

Brake booster Part Number:   NBB 5473603  
Application Information:   1969 Dodge Charger
Engines : 7.2 L 440 CID V8
Brake System Types : Front Disc / Rear Drum Brakes
Attributes   Diaphragm Diameter : 8 3/4"
Diaphragm Type : Dual Diaphragm
OE Manufacturer : Bendix

Work on my new SSBC BRAW156 "At the wheel" front disk brake kit?