Buddy Bakers Daytona

[Redbird]

Just a couple of thoughts for therealmoparman.

I have known Doug since the mid 1970's. I knew his father, and I would be proud to be known as a friend of his. I was one of the first 100 members of the DSAC. I have written articles for the DSAC and have never gotten a free or discounted membership, I was not looking for a free membership when I contributed.

I believe Doug to be one of if, not the top expert on winged cars alive today. He owns an original Nichels Superbird that is a true time capsule. He did not build a NASCAR car in 1970, but he has spoken with just about everyone that did. Doug knows the right questions to ask. He is a good person.

[therealmoparman]

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[Aero426]

Here is the show car #6 at the 1970 SAE Motorsports Convention in Detroit.

Revs Institute photo.

[Aero426]

#6 replica underhood at the 1970 SAE convention.  Note the small carb and choke for easing it on and off the trailer - just as it is today.     Revs Institute photo.

[therealmoparman]

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[therealmoparman]

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[therealmoparman]

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[odcics2]

Owens says there aren't any race cars in the yard but he does have two Dodges in museums. "I put one car in the museum in Darlington - one of the needle-nose cars, the one that we actually ran at Talladega. They have Marty Robbins' race car at Talladega. Of course it belonged to Marty, but I sold it to him and maintained it, and I fixed it at the museum down there. Marty was extra good to work with - a real nice guy."

http://cottonowens.com/DodgeRecordBooks.shtml

As I, and others, understand, Chrysler itself donated the Show Car Daytona to the Weatherly Museum.   

[therealmoparman]

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[held1823]

When did Baker "unofficially" go 200+ prior to doing it in the #88 car, in the COG #6?

I wasn't there myself, but if Baker says he did, I guess he did, didn't he?

sure, just like bobby allison drove this steaming turd. bobby says he did, so who are we to question anything straight from the horse's mouth

you certainly do a wonderful job of torpedoing your own argument.

https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail.cfm?LOT_ID=FL0110-89901

[odcics2]

Why is that your understanding? I never stated that did I?

Cotton owned the car. He picked it up himself circa 2005. Not sure exactly when it was put in. You can't take something back that never belonged to you, much less sell it.

Andy Agosta stated the car was donated to the Museum.  Was this by Chrysler or did Cotton do it himself?   

[odcics2]

#6 replica underhood at the 1970 SAE convention.  Note the small carb and choke for easing it on and off the trailer - just as it is today.     Revs Institute photo.

The key here is that the PITA bars have the additional reinforcement, dating the replica #6 car to an early-mid '68 construction time.  The 2 other Daytonas that Cotton used do not have this feature, which dates the construction time to late 68- early 69 at Nichels Engineering.

Note - single coil mount, the other 2 Owens Daytonas had dual coil mounts.  This coincides with the dual ignition switches, as seen below, on the real race cars.

[odcics2]

 

Still waiting for some photos of the bedplate Cotton used in 69-70 to build Daytonas from the BIW up...
Below is a photo of a Charger being built up on the jig from a non rolling BIW at the Nichels Engineering facility.

[Indygenerallee]

If I could only find that frame jig....

[therealmoparman]

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[odcics2]

1970-71.. I know blah blah blah. If Cotton could build it "from the ground up" in 70-71, he couldn't in 68-69?

http://cottonowens.com/COG-1970-1974.shtml

Apparently not.  Just produce ANYTHING to show he did.   Maybe even a bill of sale that he bought one?
You appear to have a lot of paperwork and links to everything except what's relevant... 

All I see is a finished car that appears to be of Nichels origin.  Surely there are photos of the cage being welded in... 

[hemigeno]

One of the captions reads:

Cotton at work on construction of the new car.  He decided to build it <<subject of previous sentence "the new car">> from the ground up himself to save money and get the safest possible race machine.

(emphasis added)

Doesn't that clearly mean he did not build them himself "from the ground up" prior to the '71 model year car being represented in the photo?

[therealmoparman]

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[odcics2]

Still waiting for some photos of the bedplate Cotton used in 69-70 to build Daytonas from the BIW up...
Below is a photo of a Charger being built up on the jig from a non rolling BIW at the Nichels Engineering facility.

This is "from the ground up".

[odcics2]

I believe Cotton DID build them in the early 60s, until 68.   
Nichels was the builder for the teams to have a standard chassis for all the Dodges, 68 to 70.
Likewise Holman Moody built chassis for the Ford guys.   

[Aero426]

I believe Cotton DID build them in the early 60s, until 68.  
Nichels was the builder for the teams to have a standard chassis for all the Dodges, 68 to 70.
Likewise Holman Moody built chassis for the Ford guys.    

Agree.   It is important to understand that the procedures and techniques on how the cars were built evolved as time went on.   Completely different than 1964.

Jigs. Fixtures.  This is state of the art 1970 Mopar race car building.   Cars completed past this stage could be delivered to teams for finishing or "building" to their personal preferences, COG included.    If COG did not have this setup or an in-floor plate to build cars "from the ground up",  they would be at a disadvantage.  

[Highbanked Hauler]

If I could only find that frame jig....

    Indy, get yourself a Black Hawk  unibody bench and fixtures you could make your own. They are all but obsolete and could be had for cheap money,probably not much more than scrap price.  

[Aero426]

If I could only find that frame jig....

    Indy, get yourself a Black Hawk  unibody bench and fixtures you could make your own. They are all but obsolete and could be had for cheap money,probably not much more than scrap price.  

Blackhawk bench was an ultimate unibody repair system.    They are excellent for race car and hot rod builders if you can find one today.     I have been involved with them for many years. 

[odcics2]

I believe Cotton DID build them in the early 60s, until 68.  
Nichels was the builder for the teams to have a standard chassis for all the Dodges, 68 to 70.
Likewise Holman Moody built chassis for the Ford guys.    

Agree.   It is important to understand that the procedures and techniques on how the cars were built evolved as time went on.   Completely different than 1964.

Jigs. Fixtures.  This is state of the art 1970 Mopar race car building.   Cars completed past this stage could be delivered to teams for finishing or "building" to their personal preferences, COG included.    If COG did not have this setup or an in-floor plate to build cars "from the ground up",  they would be at a disadvantage.  

And since the firewalls in the 2 Owens Daytonas and the replica #6 is identical to other known Nichels built cars...   

[Aero426]

Great photos Doug. Not sure what that proves. The record states that there were 2 Daytonas. So we are going to have to agree that the only way to move forward is to disagree, and concur that nothing can be resolved to anyone's satisfaction.

Yes, the surviving car is the third of the original two Daytonas.