Buddy Bakers Daytona

[therealmoparman]

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[tan top]

you know i got a call yesterday to read this thread thats on here and you know what?.... i read it last nite leading me to have and get a bottle of F@%Kin Tylenol! this thread has gone in circles and went no where. the shear notion that Ray Nichels would have built a car for Chrysler is utter nonsense. Ray if you recall had his plate full with Nascar and USAC teams at the time.I was going to call Terry Nichels this morning and ask him about it but I know what he would say. I get to go thru the Nichels archives when i want to and there is no photos or reference to him building a show car for Chrysler or anyone. now this issue of this Car in question is very interesting to say the least. now one very interesting feature of the human brain is it has the ability to get confused over a course of years. a good example is Ray Fox, now when i was talking to him one nite he said that he built his own Chassis' now Terry told me that Fox Bought all his chassis from Nichels also as did many other teams. Jim Vandidver told me his daytona was a home made car never came from Nichels. Now the Daytona that Terry owned that Verlin Eaker drove was the same old yellow #99 Charger. he had one car and it was fitted with the daytona nose and wing when needed. the cars were rebodied faster than you know. the old #99 Dow Daytona was rebodied as was the first Talladega winner. back then the big hype didn't exist about keeping winning cars. nobody had the notion that these cars would be anything other than a race memory in the future. now one of Cottons cars was wrecked I believe in the World 600totally wasted in the ass. here is a picture below and also an invoice from Nichels with a list of parts consistent with the damage. now is it possibble that this car could have been used as the show car in question? judging by the photos it had to have had a whole ass put on the car. there fore bringing in the question of the rear trunk latch and stuff being in the car.and no race stabilizer braces put in. and the rearend being pushed forward shoving the driveshaft to and maybe taking out the loops as well. also the invoice is dated May 26,1970. so in my personal opinion i believe the show car in question is this car in the photos. also as brought up earlier that any Nichels chassis would have a number. we may never really know the true pedigree of this car as it's past has a cloudy memory and Mr. Canepa is relying on that. But i will say this, the series of events last year when someone called me about tires for a particular COG Daytona raised my suspicions.

good info WB , thanks for sharing  forgot about the big rear end wreck the #6 had , that certainly sounds plausible , & makes sence  

[therealmoparman]

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[superbirdtom]

you know i got a call yesterday to read this thread thats on here and you know what?.... i read it last nite leading me to have and get a bottle of F@%Kin Tylenol! this thread has gone in circles and went no where. the shear notion that Ray Nichels would have built a car for Chrysler is utter nonsense. Ray if you recall had his plate full with Nascar and USAC teams at the time.I was going to call Terry Nichels this morning and ask him about it but I know what he would say. I get to go thru the Nichels archives when i want to and there is no photos or reference to him building a show car for Chrysler or anyone. now this issue of this Car in question is very interesting to say the least. now one very interesting feature of the human brain is it has the ability to get confused over a course of years. a good example is Ray Fox, now when i was talking to him one nite he said that he built his own Chassis' now Terry told me that Fox Bought all his chassis from Nichels also as did many other teams. Jim Vandidver told me his daytona was a home made car never came from Nichels. Now the Daytona that Terry owned that Verlin Eaker drove was the same old yellow #99 Charger. he had one car and it was fitted with the daytona nose and wing when needed. the cars were rebodied faster than you know. the old #99 Dow Daytona was rebodied as was the first Talladega winner. back then the big hype didn't exist about keeping winning cars. nobody had the notion that these cars would be anything other than a race memory in the future. now one of Cottons cars was wrecked I believe in the World 600totally wasted in the ass. here is a picture below and also an invoice from Nichels with a list of parts consistent with the damage. now is it possibble that this car could have been used as the show car in question? judging by the photos it had to have had a whole ass put on the car. there fore bringing in the question of the rear trunk latch and stuff being in the car.and no race stabilizer braces put in. and the rearend being pushed forward shoving the driveshaft to and maybe taking out the loops as well. also the invoice is dated May 26,1970. so in my personal opinion i believe the show car in question is this car in the photos. also as brought up earlier that any Nichels chassis would have a number. we may never really know the true pedigree of this car as it's past has a cloudy memory and Mr. Canepa is relying on that. But i will say this, the series of events last year when someone called me about tires for a particular COG Daytona raised my suspicions.

                                             This makes sense as the canepa car has a street wing washers that creative spotwelded in , I don't believe any of the race cars had the spot welded in wing washers. and the street wing is totally different than a race wing.  Who was the foundry that made the race wings and does anyone have a photo of a race wing?

[therealmoparman]

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[moparstuart]

hackett brass made the street wings  maybe they made the race ones too


    http://wwnboa.org/motw.htm

[Aero426]

hackett brass made the street wings  maybe they made the race ones too


    http://wwnboa.org/motw.htm

The casting of the wing is the same between street and race.    The race wing is modified with the quick removal tubular braces and of course the cable. 

[Aero426]

The repair of the World 600 car would not change anything about the fact that the cars in these four photos spanning four decades look alike.   FORGET ABOUT DECALS.   Decals can be changed in a matter of minutes and for ANY reason.   The sheet metal does the talking here.   

[superbirdtom]

hackett brass made the street wings  maybe they made the race ones too


    http://wwnboa.org/motw.htm

                 I thought so. I saw a  of daytona upright on ebay a couple years ago and it had tubes on the bottom of it .  Why does the canepa car have spotwelded in wing washers?  didn't the race bodies come straight from chrysler?  if the car does have a rear clip from a street daytona it should have a serial number stamped on the trunk lip.anyone think of looking ?

[therealmoparman]

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[therealmoparman]

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[Sicklajoie]

I want to hear why these "show cars" constantly changed appearances, had full fledging racing chassis, suspension, race hemi, dry sump, dual shocks, and more.

Because they were raced. That is the only explanation that makes sense.

Look at these pics. These were taken by Canepa (who added the crappy spackle paint). Why on earth would Cotton go to such lengths for a "show car"

Absurd. When would he have had time or inclination to do this for a car merely to be seen from two feet away?

See that little vent? Who at a show would ever see that? So why is it there then? Maybe for a race... hmmmm

Anyone who knows the first thing about racing in that era can see this is a RACE car.

It WAS a racecar until some point of the 1969 season, then it became a show car and only a show car from the beginning of 1970 and on. Take away the change of decals from show to show and you have no other proof that the car in the 4 pictures that Aero426 posted are any different.

[therealmoparman]

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[therealmoparman]

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[moparstuart]

COG raced only 1 race in 1969 with the Daytona - 12.07.69 at Texas.

There was a news article on Cobo posted earlier from 12.13.69, stating that Baker would be there with his racing Dodge.

So what car was at Cobo in 12.13.69, if Cotton's first wing car race was one week before it?

Cotton could not have built a show car out of a wreck (from Texas race 12.07.69) in ONE WEEK for 12.13.69 show. Have you seen that wreck picture?

Comments welcome.

It was obviously an older race chassis that was never a wing car and they used stock factory rear sheet metal to build a show car out of .      2+2= 4     not  500

[wingcar builder]

I don't think the point is clear here at all. I don't think there is any question at all that this "IS" a Grand National Built Car! It is the cars "HISTORY" that is in question! forget the decals and the dry sump and the quotes and the racing reference BS they dont have any pics to back up what the car looked like that won the race just the writings from a scoring official ok? what we see is a car that has "NO" pedegree! that is the point here. this car is being represented as the southern 500 winner and mr. Canapa had better think of shitting some documents to back these claims before suckering a buyer into thinking he's buying a legitiment car. i've been friends with Terry Nichels for awhile and like he said "do you know how many cars came thru here to remember all this?" so let's forget the photos of decals and stuff i wanna see the photos of the southern 500 winner from back in the day with the hood up I wanna see the interior and so forth and compare it to the car in question today in this rediculous thread. also here is a photo of the sheet metal of the quarter panal from the K&K Dodge for the other guys to see what the wing stabilizer wing brace holes look like.

[hemigeno]

Wasn't the #6 Daytona prepared to race at Talladega in September of 1969?

[Sicklajoie]

COG raced only 1 race in 1969 with the Daytona - 12.07.69 at Texas.

So the Dodge that Baker drove at Charlotte 10/12/69 and Rockingham 10/26/69 was not a Daytona??

[Aero426]

I want to hear why these "show cars" constantly changed appearances, had full fledging racing chassis, suspension, race hemi, dry sump, dual shocks, and more.

Because they were raced. That is the only explanation that makes sense.

Look at these pics. These were taken by Canepa (who added the crappy spackle paint). Why on earth would Cotton go to such lengths for a "show car"

Absurd. When would he have had time or inclination to do this for a car merely to be seen from two feet away?

See that little vent? Who at a show would ever see that? So why is it there then? Maybe for a race... hmmmm

Anyone who knows the first thing about racing in that era can see this is a RACE car.

I don't think the above is in dispute.  It certainly appears to be a Nichels type chassis.   As mentioned MANY times, it is simply the PERIOD of the racing you've claimed that doesn't make sense.

[6bblgt]

I want to hear why these "show cars" constantly changed appearances,

Get over the few missing/different decals on the former racecar turned "show car".
Cars on display & in museums lose their decals and loose parts to "souvenir" hunters, check out all the partial decals next time you're in one.

[tan top]

I want to hear why these "show cars" constantly changed appearances, had full fledging racing chassis, suspension, race hemi, dry sump, dual shocks, and more.

Because they were raced. That is the only explanation that makes sense.

Look at these pics. These were taken by Canepa (who added the crappy spackle paint). Why on earth would Cotton go to such lengths for a "show car"

Absurd. When would he have had time or inclination to do this for a car merely to be seen from two feet away?

See that little vent? Who at a show would ever see that? So why is it there then? Maybe for a race... hmmmm

Anyone who knows the first thing about racing in that era can see this is a RACE car.

It WAS a racecar until some point of the 1969 season, then it became a show car and only a show car from the beginning of 1970 and on. Take away the change of decals from show to show and you have no other proof that the car in the 4 pictures that Aero426 posted are any different.

hello & welcome Sicklajoie 

[Mike DC]

               
I doubt that anyone here has actually changed their opinion about the car for the last 10 or 15 pages. 

It's just verbal sparring for the sake of it at this point.   

       

[english bob]

               
I doubt that anyone here has actually changed their opinion about the car for the last 10 or 15 pages. 

It's just verbal sparring for the sake of it at this point.   

       

Where would the money trail surrounding this car lead to?

[Aero426]

Where would the money trail surrounding this car lead to?

[tan top]

COG raced only 1 race in 1969 with the Daytona - 12.07.69 at Texas.

So the Dodge that Baker drove at Charlotte 10/12/69 and Rockingham 10/26/69 was not a Daytona??

yes Buddy Baker  ran the #6 Daytona  in both of those races  & came in 3rd  in both races