Overheating issue resolved....interesting read !

[1970Moparmann]

Well..... I've been having heating issues with my engine, so I haven't even been able to get it on the road yet.  Took off the 440Source water pump housing and sure enough, I got one of the bad ones!  What a crappy design!   Putting a new Mancini one on it today and will see what the difference is like.

Thanks a ton Ron for posting this!   

I finally got everything back together on Wednesday and fired the car up on Thursday.  When idling, and engine warm, the water pump housing is at 180 - 185, block and heads between 170 and 175.   Worked like a charm!   For the record, I replaced the POS housing with a Mancini branded one.

Thanks again Ron for the thread!!!!!!

One add since my last post.  I was running a Champion Aluminum Radiator with 2 electric fans which the company claimed would cool off up to 600 hp - no dice.   After I replaced the POS 440Source housing, the water pump was doing it's job, but the fans were not.  I wound up putting a mechanical fan on and the car runs a cool 170 now.  Just clocked in 1,600 miles on the Hot Rod Power Tour, and the cooling issue is officially closed.  Thanks Ron!

On a side note, I called 440Source to potentially buy some other product, but after I ranted about the water pump housing and the springs in the heads, the response was basically your screwed!  Warranty is expired, can't help you.  I went in about how I spent $3,000 with 440Source between a stroker kit and heads, and they basically said "oh well".  I went into them pretty hard and basically said, you lost all my business and I won't promote you......  I can't stand when companies have zero after sale customer service

[Hot_Rodder]

One add since my last post.  I was running a Champion Aluminum Radiator with 2 electric fans which the company claimed would cool off up to 600 hp - no dice.   After I replaced the POS 440Source housing, the water pump was doing it's job, but the fans were not.  I wound up putting a mechanical fan on and the car runs a cool 170 now.  Just clocked in 1,600 miles on the Hot Rod Power Tour, and the cooling issue is officially closed.  Thanks Ron!

So the dual electric fans that they supply want pull enough air to cool a big block? If that's the case I may end up setting those to the side and run a spal fan... Or two... But the radiator itself is fine though, right?

[1970Moparmann]

One add since my last post.  I was running a Champion Aluminum Radiator with 2 electric fans which the company claimed would cool off up to 600 hp - no dice.   After I replaced the POS 440Source housing, the water pump was doing it's job, but the fans were not.  I wound up putting a mechanical fan on and the car runs a cool 170 now.  Just clocked in 1,600 miles on the Hot Rod Power Tour, and the cooling issue is officially closed.  Thanks Ron!

So the dual electric fans that they supply want pull enough air to cool a big block? If that's the case I may end up setting those to the side and run a spal fan... Or two... But the radiator itself is fine though, right?

The radiator itself is working fine.  The engine is 170 while driving - very impressed!  I talked to Champion and they suggested going with a fan shroud around the fans..  I of course hit them on the claim the set up with 2 electric fans are supposed to cool up to 600 hp, and they kind of danced around this.  Since I needed to get the car on the road for the tour asap, I just put the mechanical fan on and worked like a charm.  Since I have the electric fans, my plan is to put them on as pusher fans for when sitting in traffic on a blistering day.  The highest my car when up to while sitting in traffic was 200. 

[Musicman]

I was running a Champion Aluminum Radiator with 2 electric fans which the company claimed would cool off up to 600 hp

I talked to Champion and they suggested going with a fan shroud around the fans..  I of course hit them on the claim the set up with 2 electric fans are supposed to cool up to 600 hp, and they kind of danced around this.   

Do they even tell you what the CFM rating is for the fans?
Myself, I would be looking for 3000 CFM+ for a fairly stock big block, and 4000 to 5000 CFM+ for a performance block.
Overkill perhaps... but better safe than sorry.

[Hot_Rodder]

The radiator itself is working fine.  The engine is 170 while driving - very impressed!  I talked to Champion and they suggested going with a fan shroud around the fans..  I of course hit them on the claim the set up with 2 electric fans are supposed to cool up to 600 hp, and they kind of danced around this.  Since I needed to get the car on the road for the tour asap, I just put the mechanical fan on and worked like a charm.  Since I have the electric fans, my plan is to put them on as pusher fans for when sitting in traffic on a blistering day.  The highest my car when up to while sitting in traffic was 200. 

Hmm... Good idea, I can run a different set of electric fans for puller and use one or both as pusher fans.... Wonder how many amps that will be though... Might be too much sadly... I'm trying to get around the mechanical fan with the drag it creates... Guess I got some looking into to do.

[harlandodge]

i just got on here to ask for help on my 440 running hot,, very much alike the first thread on here is the way my car is doing but a little hotter,, i changed everything trying to fix this problem,, it has a new housing and water pump from summit,, so i guess i'll take it back off and check to see if this is my problem with it,,, will let you guys know in a few days when i can get to it if this is my problem

[harlandodge]

ok i couldnt stand it ,so i went ahead and took off my housing today, just as you said the water ports is much smaller then the factory  housing, also didnt like the way my water pump looked, couldnt find a name on my any where, not really sure what brand it is but got it from summit, so i ll put on a new one tomorrow and see if my running hot is fixed

[harlandodge]

well i changed my pump housing and pump back to the factory ones, ran my car today and it ran much cooler , i never would have found this problem if not for this thread on here ,, much thanks to you for posting this

[1970Moparmann]

well i changed my pump housing and pump back to the factory ones, ran my car today and it ran much cooler , i never would have found this problem if not for this thread on here ,, much thanks to you for posting this

Did you find any identification number or name on the unit from Summit?   This information needs to be added......

[Hot_Rodder]

Or a summit part #......

[harlandodge]

well i changed my pump housing and pump back to the factory ones, ran my car today and it ran much cooler , i never would have found this problem if not for this thread on here ,, much thanks to you for posting this

Did you find any identification number or name on the unit from Summit?   This information needs to be added......
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[harlandodge]

i need to make a correction , i did not buy the water pump housing from summit, sorry to anyone at summit, bad mistake on my part,, i buy a lot of parts from summit and thought it came from them but it did not ,, i bought it off e-bay , it has no name or part # on it,,

[Hot_Rodder]

ouch, might be a 440 source housing lol

[Polygon]

I read almost every post, one of the most interesting articles I've read here.

[harlandodge]

well guys i drove my car to a car show about 1 hour away saturday ran it around 65 mph and it ran great , temp stayed around 190-195,, before changing the water pump housing i couldnt go 20 miles without boiling over,, just thought i would let you guys know you fixed my car

[1970Moparmann]

Great news!

[ionracer24]

wow, late to the show...but safe to say that i will be including ZERO!!!  440source  parts on my 440 build.  I for one just cannot stand poor customer service!!  I'd like to thank all you guys for a great technical article, especially those who went the extra mile and did the flow tests.  That techie stuff just turns my crank hehehe.   anyways, not to hijack but has anyone done a comparison on head gaskets and the coolant passage flow restrictions? that would be interesting to see also as headgasket restrictions are a major cause of overheating in other "cough" gm brands...... just my 

[Khyron]

has any of the people from 440 source ever address this? or have they stuck thier heads in the sand?

[Hot_Rodder]

has any of the people from 440 source ever address this? or have they stuck thier heads in the sand?

I kinda doubt it, a little while backed I called to ask them about it due to the fact that I was planning on getting a set up from them, but when they seemingly tried to avoid it, I didn't bother pushing the issue, nor did I bother getting the stuff from them. Right now only thing I have from them are the Stealth heads with a different setup for the valve train. Also had modern cylinder heads do some work to them as well.

[Khyron]

I make it a point to warn people off everywhere I can... I bought one of those junk water pumps, and almost lost a new engine because of it... and I would be in jail if it did....

[Silver R/T]

So what is the part number for milodon high volume pump?

[Hot_Rodder]

I ended up getting a water pump housing and pump kit through Mancini, but I have nothing to report as of yet, motor is still in the process of getting to the point of running...
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/hopupa.html #MRE6900KAH is the one I got... Looks nice, I went ahead and clear painted it to help protect the aluminum though... I got there chrome bolt kit as well, need to get two chrome bolts for the thermostat housing, or find some studs that will work too (rather go the stud route but oh well)... Also need to get new heater hose outlets...

[harlandodge]

easy to check before you install , on the back just stick your finger in the water ports and compare them to the factory one,,, the one that was giving me problems was only half the size

[Ranman69SE]

Fortunately I discovered this topic just days before starting my engine for the first time.  Thanks to everyone who provide valuable information, and special thanks to Ron for sticking his fingers in strange places 

I immediately got online to Summit Racing and ordered up the Mopar Performance housing and pump (expensive, I know.  I have a history of throwing money at problems!).  While waiting for the parts to arrive, I removed my 440 Source WP and housing, and confirmed the restrictive water channels.  The Mopar housing passages seemed almost twice as big in diameter, which pleased me but I must say that I was not impressed with the water pump itself.  I'm no expert in hydrodynamics but the impeller seems antiquated on the Mopar unit, not unlike a riverboat paddlewheel! 


Since I had gone to all the trouble to remove it once to get it right, I didn't want to have to do it again, so I returned to the Summit site and found a FlowKooler unit that at least looked like it had some engineering in the design (anti-cavitation plate, curved vanes).  Plus, it was cheaper than the Mopar WP.


I have not put the car on wheels yet, so I can't say what my running temp will be at this point.  Oddly enough, the 440 Source pump was the only one whose vanes would touch the housing when put together without a gasket (preferred tight tolerances).  However, take a look at the photo and notice how off-center the shaft is in relation to the impeller.  Probably not too big a deal but makes one wonder about quality control.  The impeller itself was centered and true, just the hub center was cast just a bit off.


Stay cool, brothers and sisters!

Randy

[doctor4766]

So what is the part number for milodon high volume pump?

Good question.
I've been considering one myself.