Project Silver Fox AWD Updated 7/1

[b5blue]

  Boy your into it now!   

[RallyeMike]

I must have missed your plan for engine and drivetrain donor for the AWD. What is it?

I had not run across this thread before - I'll be paying more attention. Very interesting.

and I'm sick over the rear axle  

[AllerHop]

What the f*** !

I read the whole topic today ! I can't say nothing ..but .;;.. whaou ! ..in french " Puré, ca déchire sa race !!! "

U doing an amazing job ! i dream to become owner of a garage ! .. I am living on military base ... have nothing here for car =_=' !


What motor u will put on it if u want to do a AWD ?

I see u use many POR-15 ! i didn't know this product, i will search if i could find it in France.

[motorcitydak]

Thanks a lot guys. Im really hoping to get a lot of work done this spring/summer. Mite be placing a new engine high on the things-I-need-to-get list soon.

For the motor, I want to run a +09 5.7 Hemi. They have the new Eagle heads and are rated for 380hp out of the box. I have seen dyno results of 425rwhp with a cam and tune with intake and exhaust bolt on's (and O boy do I have a good plan for the exhaust). Trans I have rite now is an overdrive aluminum A-833 (read:79.5lbs!). As for the transfer case, I have 2 to chose from now since I just picked up another one this weekend. I got the Borg Warner case that was OEM stuff in the STS that I took everything else out of. I also have NV147 case from an '04 jeep grand cherokee. From there, its on to the STS front diff and CV shafts. I have knuckles from a ZO6 corvette and am using the corvette rear hubs to accept the CV shafts. They have to be drilled for 5x4.5 tho. The rear axle is the Moser circle track full floater, it will get a trutrac and 3.23 gears to match the front.

Aller, the POR-15 stuff is great. I am actually planning on using it to paint everything I possibly can. It goes on super thin so it will save weight and the stuff is very tuff. A coat or two should protect the metal from just about anything.

O, and because I just have to put something up here to look at, here is my transfer case from the STS

[b5blue]

There is probably good info on the Cherokee transfer case on NAXJ's site.   

[RallyeMike]

Trans I have rite now is an overdrive aluminum A-833 (read:79.5lbs!). 

Something to consider before you spend a lot of dough on driveshafts and fabrication: While I have not broken one of these myself, experienced racers who have destroyed these tell me that the weak point is where the countershaft sits in the aluminum case. These were not meant to survive behind 435HP. I have maybe 450HP in front of mine, but I'm not required to bang the gears hard to be competetive in Open Road Racing. It has survived (so far).

[motorcitydak]

There is actually precious little info out there about the jeep transfer case I have. It was a 1 year only thing offered only one option package, they were not popular either. I mean, who wants a jeep that cannot be shifted into low range or neutral? Some info I was able to dig up was that you can read into the case a little. NV means New Venture, the company that made it. 147, the 1 means that it is a 1 speed transfer case. The second digit designated the strength the case was designed for. NV231's are put into lots of different 4wd vehicles, dakotas, rams, jeeps, etc... The 4 means that it is actually a more stout case, made to handle a constant load of 1000ft/lb and a max input of 1800. I really do not have much info on the STS transfer case I just got. I was only able to find out that it is made by Borg Warner because it is stamped on the case I bought. I do know that it was put behind a 6L40-E transmission tho but that is really of no help.

Mike, thanks, for that tip. Im figuring the motor will have some where around 420-450hp so I will be rite with you at the limit. I also want to do more high speed stuff, no drag racing for me. It is just no interesting I think. Are there any upgrades you think I should do to mine to make it last a little longer? I plan to take it apart and throw a rebuild kit at it. Anything else? Also, how do you like the gears? Ive heard guys not liking the huge gap between 1 and 2 and also that 1st gear is 3.09-1 iirc. Seems like that gear will run out pretty quick

[Mike DC]

                   
What kind of center differential coupling are you planning to end up with?  Spider gears?  Spiders w/LSD?  Viscous? 

[SRT-68]

Trans I have rite now is an overdrive aluminum A-833 (read:79.5lbs!). 

Something to consider before you spend a lot of dough on driveshafts and fabrication: While I have not broken one of these myself, experienced racers who have destroyed these tell me that the weak point is where the countershaft sits in the aluminum case. These were not meant to survive behind 435HP. I have maybe 450HP in front of mine, but I'm not required to bang the gears hard to be competetive in Open Road Racing. It has survived (so far).

RallyeMike is right on the trans.

The trans case will need to be machined for bronse bushings at both ends of the countershaft. That is the weak point of the OD trans. Same goes for the side cover bushings, these are plastic goodies that will crack and leak. I have run these transmissions in several cars with no problems.

Bad a$$ build man, you are doing one hell of a job!

[RallyeMike]

I think. Are there any upgrades you think I should do to mine to make it last a little longer? I plan to take it apart and throw a rebuild kit at it. Anything else? Also, how do you like the gears? Ive heard guys not liking the huge gap between 1 and 2 and also that 1st gear is 3.09-1 iirc. Seems like that gear will run out pretty quick

SRT-68 answered the reliability question above. I don't know if this makes it as strong as a steel-cased unit and I have not done it myself yet, but it seems like a good plan. I have a spare one that will receive this treatment when I get around to it.

I like the lower first gear for getting rolling because I have 3.23 axle gears like you plan. The rest of the gears take some getting used to because of the spacing which is not optimal for all out performance. To offset it, you have to develop a habit of avoiding short shifting like you might do with a standard 833 (shift at a higher rpm). That's the price you pay to have the OD in only 4 gears.

Looking forward to how your build comes together!

[jeffsjag90]

 Man this is a great thread and great work. Give us some updates! More pics.

[Chryco Psycho]

The way I set my Charger up is 2.76 diff with the alum od 833 , this allows avrage speed in the 130 mph range with low RPM so the engine is not working hard at all , the theoretical top speed is insane at 270 mph around 7000 rpm !!
Unfortunatly I am selling the car not finishing it .
The guts of the OD can be installed in an Iron 833 case , some early ODs had iron cases , I have installed them into the 308 front brg case with no problems , I also installed them into a 307 case once but it wouldn't shift properly , we disassembled it

[200MPH]

wow this is going to be cool 

[motorcitydak]

Hey guys, it has been a very long time since I last updated this build. I have come quite a long way since my last update and want to do my best to bring it back up to where i am now, so here we go...

Started out by setting the diff and LCA into place with the Corvette C6 knuckle and rear hubs



Clearance made for the CV shaft



Inner fenders had to go, you can see here that someone was sick on 'spot weld the inner fender brace' day



I bent up 1.75 120 wall DOM for the crossmember



Opened up the frame rails to allow the tubes to fit in



The new crossmember



Putting some brackets on it



and taco gussets into the corners



Finished it up. I think it only weighed 20 pounds or so, a lot better than what it replaced



Put the crossmember back in and set the stuff back into place

[motorcitydak]

Built some brackets to hold the front diff, the front one needs to be completely redone because the steering rack needs to use that space



Set the diff into place with some temporary brackets



then got started on the locations for the upper control arms







then put up the brackets around that, these ended up getting changed for reasons you will see soon



Started building UCA version 1.0









The problem

[motorcitydak]

So the UCA mounts had to be moved forward, on the same plane. New mounts are the forward ones



New UCA's had to be built



Picked this up to replace the A-833. No more worries about too much HP!!





Put brackets onto the LCA's to hold the pushrods





and started work on the rockers





Then started on the crossmember



I figured card board would not be strong enough so I put this little kit together









and welded in the 1/8 steel brackets



Finished up the rockers



and this brings you all up to speed, I just opened up the tie rod end holes to accept these 3/4 shoulder bolts to hold the rod ends



I used brass bushings as spacers, the top one is flanged to spread the load out a little more

[TXcharger70]

Amazing craftsmanship only wish I was capable of such a build. Keep up the good job

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Amazing craftsmanship only wish I was capable of such a build. Keep up the good job

Agreed. Wow.

[b5blue]

  Excellent progress!   

[motorcitydak]

Thanks guys! Im hoping to keep the progress coming and get this car on the ground this spring/summer area and get an engine soon!

Hey b5, how did that piece of the quarter panel work out for you?

[b5blue]

  I'm just getting to the point of using it soon! It will be perfect, I just bought a flange tool and am trying to figure my cuts out. Got my sandblaster ready and have to order some epoxy primer and panel adhesive still. I'm glad to see the new place worked out for you!   

[Mike DC]

                     
Looks great man.  It's gonna be quite a battle to cram in the front diff + steering + V8 engine. 

So you're going with a pushrod/cantilever type deal to actuate some front coilovers?  Looks like a workable idea but I don't see how the engine fits that way.  Are you really gonna set the engine that far backwards or something?  I don't see how that really works unless you're also doing a rear transaxle. 

It's little wonder the factories use torsion bar front ends on 4WD/AWD setups so often.  They're trying to cram all that stuff in there and still keep the A-arms compact enough to steer the front wheels in a wide range. 
         

[XS29L9B2]

  i had read your pics congratulation 

[tan top]

this is some serious stuff       keep the updates coming 

[motorcitydak]

With the steering rack currently up in the air, I decided to work on the rear end a little more today. I am going to use a Watt's link to control the lateral movement of the rear axle and because its me, i am going to build it all myself. For the rear axle, I have one of Moser's circle track rear's. Its a ford 9 inch housing with Moser's full floater ends on it. I had it spec'd out a year or so ago. It has been sitting idly by while I messed around with the front end. I already have a 3 link built for it but no shock setup currently. I started off by putting the axle back into where it belongs



This shot is at ride height, which is 2.5 inches off the stock bumpstops



After that I started making my bell crank. I decided to build it with bolt holes 6 inches apart. I used some bronze bushings I had and will get another shoulder bolt that is the right length for this



Its made from the same stuff I used for the rockers in the front end. 3/8 thick 1.5 wide 6061 and a piece of 3/4x1 6061 in the middle I also drilled and tapped each side for 2 3/8 bolts. I am going to find some cap screws that I can counter sink into the 6061 for a flush fit since they interfere with the brackets as they sit



I marked and cleaned off the site where my bracket will be going. I decided on using an axle mounted bell crank to save overall weight. This will only add around 10# of unsprung weight vs around 30# if I used a Fays2 or something similar. I was very concerned about the clearance with the Moser fill cap. I assumed that I would have to remove and relocate it



This is the bracket that I made to attach to the axle. Its 1/2x1 steel bar with a piece of 1/8 plate welded to the front. The 1/2 has 3 3/8 holes tapped into it and I drilled 3 1/2 inch holes into the 1/8 to hold the shoulder bolt



I tacked that piece with the axle in place



Then pulled the axle out to finish up the process. I welded it to the housing and braced that with 1/8 plate





and was happy to see that with the bell crank in place, I still had good clearance with the fill cap



I was checking the spread of the 3 holes with 3 shoulder bolts, unfortunately the top hole for some reason decided to destroy that bolt. The bracket was still warm to the touch but I am not sure why this happened. It was very hard to get this thing out



You can see that it messed up the top hole



I was able to drill the hole back out and chase the threads with the tap. The threads are fine. Im happy that I ordered 4 shoulder bolts tho

Here is the semi-finsihed product of my labors







You can see the second 1/8 plate with the 3 holes in there. I will make this setup double shear for strength