Will the front structure from a 71 Charger fit a 70 Barracuda?

[hotrod98]

I bought a 71 Charger parts car to use the front structure for my 70 Cuda. I can't save this car but I could save my Cuda.

As far as I can tell, the core support, front frame rails, inner fenders, lower firewall, front floor and torsion bar crossmember are the same on both cars. The problem is, I keep seeing that the part numbers for the torsion bars are different for these two cars. That worries me.

Does anyone know whether this swap will work or not?

[rich4406bbl]

Part numbers are probably different due to small block vs big block. Did you check the interchange manual?

[dads_69]

There has to be a width difference between the two. Remember, B body and E body. Wish I could messure a pair of cars for you right now, but customer took his '73 Charger not long ago  and Cuda is at shop right now.
You are talking about swapping dog houses I presume yes?
Larry, a Tram gauge will tell you what you need to know, which I'm sure your aware of. Besides a good old fashioned tape messure.

Mark

[Old Moparz]

I've read more than once that the front frame work is the same for B & E body cars. A lot had to do with saving costs in production so parts will interchange. I could see that the torsion bars would be different due to the size & weight differences of each car.

[hotrod98]

According to the sheet metal vendors, the inner fenders, floor pan and crossmembers are the same, but they're a little vague on the lower firewall and frame. I need to measure where the k-member bolts to the frame. There may be a little difference there due to the difference in wheelbases. I'm a fabricator, so doing some alterations won't bother me.
This Cuda is going to be a ratrod. Flat black, 400 with a 727 and I'm going to be using up a bunch of new and used parts that I have lying around to build it. Low budget build for sure.
I wrote 71 cuda in my first post. I'll change that. My 71 resto project only needs quarters and is a much nice car than the 70.
I hate to cut up a Charger but there's no title and just about everything other than the body is missing or damaged. Would cost more to restore than it would be worth. The parts will go to put other cars back on the road.

[sunroofsuperbird]

I sold a 71 Road runner front clip cut at window post and sold it too a guy to put on a 72 challenger. He brought the firewall back and said it would not work but used the rest. looks like difference in firewall is on top where fender bolt on is all?

[Mike DC]

                       

The Mopar historians make no bones about it - the E bodies were the front structure of the B bodies and a redone rear end to shorten the wheelbase.  (Think of how oddly wide they seem compared to other pony cars.) 

The whole point of doing this was to produce a ponycar that could legitimately swallow any hi-po motor they wanted to give it and not have to worry about engine bay room, overstressed chassis parts, etc.  So they took the B-body architecture because it was the smallest engine bay/chassis that was really designed to hold the Hemi & BB motors. 




Now, whether that means there are literally NO differences or not when you actually crawl under there . . .  that's another story and I don't know for sure.  But if it all looks the same, and all measures the same, then I think it's a fair assumption that it might very well interchange. 

The E-bodies ran different wheelbases between the Chally and Cuda though.  There was like two inches missing in the floor of the backseat area in the Plymouths.  (Can you imagine a factory doing something like this today?  So much extra work and interchangeability problems, all for such a virtually negligible difference in the finished product?)



-------------------------------------


One odd thing - the B-bodies were one setup up to 1970 and then another setup from 71-onwards.  Whereas the E-bodies were one thing from 1970-74.  So the overlap between the two lines wasn't perfect. 

[hotrod98]

The upper cowl area is most definitely different. That is easy to see. Only the lower firewall is the same. Isn't it strange that until recently all repro floor pans were made for Barracudas and to use them in a Challenger you had to add two inches. You would think that those geniuses would have simply made them for the Challenger and then just let the customer cut two inches off for a Barracuda.
Dodge and Plymouth had originally scheduled the body change for the b-body to coincide with the release of the e-body but they ran out of time and simply made a few cosmetic changes to the b-bodies for 70. I've always wondered if it didn't have something to do with the Superbird project as well. They were using a 69 Roadrunner for mocking up the Superbird in July of 69 so it was a little late to be totally changing body styles.   
I've always wondered why they made such a dramatic change to front suspension of the 73 b-body yet left the e-body alone for the most part. You can't use anything from the 73-74 b-body on an e-body except for the front floor pan and possible the lower firewall.

[maxwellwedge]

I bought a 71 Charger parts car to use the front structure for my 70 Cuda. I can't save this car but I could save my Cuda.

As far as I can tell, the core support, front frame rails, inner fenders, lower firewall, front floor and torsion bar crossmember are the same on both cars. The problem is, I keep seeing that the part numbers for the torsion bars are different for these two cars. That worries me.

Does anyone know whether this swap will work or not?

Torsion bars are the same - part number and all -by the different diameters used on both bodies for the different engines etc. Example: 440/Hemi  -  1857781/780 same for 70-71 E or 66-71 B-Body.....Not sure about '72 but that doesn't matter here. 73-74 B-Body Torsion bars are longer and will not work.  71 B-Body used the same K-Frame (for V8) as 70-71 E-body - It should have a "74" coin welded on the front of it.

[Mike DC]

         

I've always wondered why they made such a dramatic change to the 73 B-bodies yet left the E-bodies alone for the most part.

I've got a theory on that one -

The 73 B-bodies would have gotten the rubber isolated K-frames & axles purely to soften the ride at the expense of handling.  The E-bodies had the more sporty nature that would have seemed more suited to keeping the solid mounting. 


   

[hotrod98]

I've owned a few 73 and 74 Chargers but I've never driven one. Maybe I should have kept that rust free California 74 Charger hardtop. I sold it to a friend. But, we usually ended up trading cars back and forth a few times before one of us finally gets around to finishing them so I may end up owning it and driving it after all. All it needed was a fresh engine.
Now that I think about it, I've never driven a 3rd gen Charger and I've owned several.

Do the 73's and 74's ride that much better than a 71 or 72?

[69bronzeT5]

I'd say, if the '71 is that screwed than just cut the front clip off and see if it fits the Barracuda. If not, you can sell the Charger's front clip to someone who could use it.

[hotrod98]

With all of the customer work that I have, every hour is valuable to me. I work six or seven days a week in my resto shop and don't get very many hours to work on my own stuff.
That's why I have to have enough info to warrant taking the time to do this much work.  I've learned to do my research first.
To remove the 71 Charger front structure properly by drilling out every spot weld will take 8 or 9 hours at least. Then I have to place the cuda on my fixture and remove the front structure from it. There's another 10 or 12 hours. Then if this doesn't work, I have two cut up cars and a partial body occupying my fixture.
It's kind of like Larry the Cable guy. His horse broke his leg and someone told him that he had to shoot the horse. Now he has a horse with a broke leg and a gunshot wound.

[BROCK]

.....

Do the 73's and 74's ride that much better than a 71 or 72?

It was a friends' 74 Charger that converted me to MoPar way back in my 9th grade.  
Later, I helped another friend hotrod a 74 Charger.  They are sporty, roomy & have
very predictable handling, even when driven to their limit.  All this is just as true as
it was for the 72 & earlier B body cars:  but the limit was reduced.  A road dip that
would make a 74 car bottom out at 30mph became a small thrill at 50mph in a 70 R/T
& also a 71 GTX that is still 'in the family'.  We road tested our cars on twisty 2 lane
oiltopped roads at night & we were continuously adjusting the front suspension for
our feild trials.  The earlier bigblock cars beat our best 74 car times even before we
began to go through the same feild trials with them.  As much as I prefer the 73-74
bodylines over the 71-72 Charger:  I'll keep my 72 over a 73 or 74 every time.

IMHO, the 73 up isolated frontend was MoPar FOLDING to GMs negative ads against
them.  All GM did once MoPar gave in was pick up their hammer n nails to finish the
job - but that is another story.  

[BROCK]

Back on topic......

The K frame is the same as are the framerails, shock towers, lower firewall & lower radiator
support.  I'd still want to inspect the inner fenders & main radiator support just to be sure. 

[Tilar]

.....

Do the 73's and 74's ride that much better than a 71 or 72?

It was a friends' 74 Charger that converted me to MoPar way back in my 9th grade.  
Later, I helped another friend hotrod a 74 Charger.  They are sporty, roomy & have
very predictable handling, even when driven to their limit.  All this is just as true as
it was for the 72 & earlier B body cars:  but the limit was reduced.  A road dip that
would make a 74 car bottom out at 30mph became a small thrill at 50mph in a 70 R/T
& also a 71 GTX that is still 'in the family'.  We road tested our cars on twisty 2 lane
oiltopped roads at night & we were continuously adjusting the front suspension for
our feild trials.  The earlier bigblock cars beat our best 74 car times even before we
began to go through the same feild trials with them.  As much as I prefer the 73-74
bodylines over the 71-72 Charger:  I'll keep my 72 over a 73 or 74 every time.

IMHO, the 73 up isolated frontend was MoPar FOLDING to GMs negative ads against
them.  All GM did once MoPar gave in was pick up their hammer n nails to finish the
job - but that is another story.  

Not to hijack the thread and It's probably a lack of enough coffee yet, Are you saying the 73 and 74 ride better but the earlier ones handle better?

[Nacho-RT74]

Do the 73's and 74's ride that much better than a 71 or 72?

Although this is off topic, but you asked... I feel LOOOOOT better on a 73/74 than on earliers. Of course talking about street use. Now race is another story.

The advantage on 73/74  is the complete unibody suffers lesss strees with the isolated suspension. I never have seen a broken 73/74 frame rail, but I have seen 71/72 broken frame rails down the floor pans. Of course I'm talking about a city with bad streets manteniance.

The tipical damage down here specially on A bodies is the UCA loose the position, so lot of ppl makes is ELONGATE the UCA to get aligment back. The real problem is frame really began to twist, &/or, the bolting point of UCA. That won't ever happen on 73 and laters B bodies


backing to topic, does SOMEBODY HAVE a 71 Parts catalog to check for PNs ? I have access  to an on line catalog but is not complete, doesn't get the BODY complete section.

[hotrod98]

It's easy to see where the rubber bushings between the k-member and the frame rails would result in a softer ride, but there has to be more flex as a result which would mean less "feel" in the steering on the twisties.

As for hijacking the thread...don't worry about it. Doesn't bother me in the least.
This is the way that most of us find out new information.

I know that some guys cringe at the thought of me cutting up a 71 Charger. It hasn't happened yet. It's just that in this case, like I've said, I think that it would be far easier to restore the cuda than the charger and the rest of the parts will go to help another charger or two or three.

I've looked the inner fenders and core support over and other than possibly a few holes being in a different place, they look absolutely identical.
When I get to the point of doing this project, I'll be sure and post a few pics for those that might be interested. I'm sure that there are a few charger parts cars out there that could be used to repair a cuda or challenger front end. Would be interesting.

[TheGhost]

From everything I've heard, the E bodies, and 71+ B bodies were the same from the firewall foreward.

[Ghoste]

I think they were similar with many shared parts but I don't know if they were the exact same.  Some of the forward structural part numbers are different (not that it means anything) and the frame alignment specs are different in a few areas.   

[ACUDANUT]

 ALot of good accurate info here. To make this short and sweet. YES it will work for you. BTW 71-72 Chargers rule in the 3rd Gen. Chargers

[hotrod98]

The 3rd gen Chargers are fairly plentiful around this part of the world. I had a friend call me today to ask if I was interested in a complete matching numbers 400/727, buckets and console 72 SE today. I'm beginning to wish that I had kept the 71 R/T hood, doors and taillights now. 

[ACUDANUT]

 Dang, if you pass on it, I am always interested. Please keep me in mind.