Have you noticed any trends when dealing with resto businesses?

[bull]

I've dealt with several different types of businesses during the restoration of my Charger; primarily body shops, engine shops and transmission/gear shops. Also I've been to several parts stores and paint stores and there seems to be some similarities among different types of businesses. This is not an attempt to sterotype because I would imagine there are some vastly different examples depending on the region and the hiring pratices of the owners but as far as my experiences go I've seen some trends and I wonder if they hold true elsewhere.

One such trend I've seen at body shops is that they're either a one-man show or, if there are several employees, they seem to have high turnover. I didn't notice this at the first shop I dealt with because the car was only there for about three months but some of the other shops I've been in, either to buy supplies or have work done, I rarely see the same group of guys year after year. And many of the guys working there look like they just got out of prison or live in a van down by the river.

On the flipside the engine shop I'm dealing with has had some of the same employees for 15-25 years. Same with the parts stores I frequent such as Napa, AutoZone and CarQuest. I've seen the same guy at CarQuest for the past seven years but another trend I see at these parts places is that they don't seem to know jack about classic cars.

The electrical repair places and those little key-copy businesses tend to have just one or two people that have been there for decades and are grumpy as hell. Another quirky place is the paint supply store I often use that is run by a bunch of guys that look like lowrider/skater punks but they are very knowledgable and helpful and happy to see me and visit with me whenever I come in.

Anyway, I didn't mean to write a 500-word essay on the topic so how about some input from you guys?

[Armudster]

  As you may know, I'm from Brazil and I live in Sao Paulo, and I see some kind of trends like that and some that differ slightly, normally around here there is the talented, but slightly or completely dirty small shops that have one employee and the owner working thogeter for years, they usually have lots of experience and do a fine job, cheaper and many times a lot better than high buck "big name shops" that charge an arm and a leg to do something, and have lots of employees that sometimes doesn't even know what they're dealing with. In those places I see people come and go all the time.
Once I was about to change my camshaft and took it into a "big name shop", they asked me where is the other cam as I only brought one, I immediately turned away from there and did the job right myself, with a few buddies (I never knew any DOHC 318 Dodge V8 existed, lol).
Another trend we have here in my city is that EVERY one of the electric repair places, are run by japanese. Talk about monopoly! lol
 

[Armudster]

 Another kind of place I avoid, is the ones that when I come in they look at my car saying "hey, nice Chevy", when that happens I go out, do a nice, sick burnout and say: Let's see a Chevy do that! And then to another place I go.
Does it happen to you guys in the US? People mistaken our Mopars by Chevy or Ford, cause that really enrages me!!!!

[Tilar]

The only parts stores I deal with are owned by people I know. I can get as good a deal on just about anything at the local Carquest as I can get anywhere. The owner is on the local fire department and is also a member of Amvets where I am.

The man that owns the machine shop that I deal used to build engines for Nascar and owns property that butts up next to my family farm. He's not the cheapest, but he is damn good and he knows it. When I want a crank ground he'll ask me if I want it tight, loose or in the middle. He hits it right on the money every time. I don't mind spending a few extra dollars for that.

The only body shop I've really had any dealings with was one that I was the GM for. Turnover rate was mediocre. The main body man and the painter had been there a long time, but the guys that tear down and reinstall everything change almost as much as a pair of socks. The only problem I had with the painter was he started his first drink right before he clocked in every morning. I finally put a stop to him coming in with booze on his breath, but that only lasted a few days. The man couldn't paint when he was sober. I learned to leave well enough alone.

I don't remember ever having anyone mistake my mopar for a chevy or a ford, but there are lots of all 3 around here. 

[Armudster]

The only parts stores I deal with are owned by people I know. I can get as good a deal on just about anything at the local Carquest as I can get anywhere. The owner is on the local fire department and is also a member of Amvets where I am.

The man that owns the machine shop that I deal used to build engines for Nascar and owns property that butts up next to my family farm. He's not the cheapest, but he is damn good and he knows it. When I want a crank ground he'll ask me if I want it tight, loose or in the middle. He hits it right on the money every time. I don't mind spending a few extra dollars for that.

The only body shop I've really had any dealings with was one that I was the GM for. Turnover rate was mediocre. The main body man and the painter had been there a long time, but the guys that tear down and reinstall everything change almost as much as a pair of socks. The only problem I had with the painter was he started his first drink right before he clocked in every morning. I finally put a stop to him coming in with booze on his breath, but that only lasted a few days. The man couldn't paint when he was sober. I learned to leave well enough alone.

I don't remember ever having anyone mistake my mopar for a chevy or a ford, but there are lots of all 3 around here. 

Sorry if I passed the impression that "big name shops" doesn't know what they are doing, i just meant that a lot of them sucks and charge big money for it, and some local, "no name shops" sometimes do kick ass jobs while not being expensive.
I don't have anything against Chevys or Fords, but they're just not my thing, the thing is a Mopar is a Mopar, a Chevy is a Chevy and Ford is a Ford, while I know the general population sometimes doesn't know the difference, I expect that car shops do, and that already happened to me 3 times, which made me look for other shops immediately.
 

[mikepmcs]

I believe it's always been that way.  They don't really know jack about cars in general at parts stores and depend on a computer and sometimes a book that goes back to 81 at the earliest.   It's more or less just a job to them, as it should be, but the lack of pride is evident in how little they know or care to know. But I guess at $6 an hour, and given the way today's youth has been raised, it doesn't surprise me that... nobody gives a crap. That's why, when I go in, I know exactly what I want, and have a part number if possible, etc....
I will say that there is one guy here at the local dealership, I do not mind dealing with. Very helpful and will go out of his way to find what you are looking for.  He's definitely a car fan and it shows in his approach.  Last time I was there he took me right in the garage to show me an 09 Chally SRT 8 and the mods that the owner had been having done.  I can appreciate those kind of people.
Also , there was Rick(member here with a bee) who worked at the dealership when it was still called Blouin's but now I think he works across the street at the Honda Dealer. 


As far as body shops go, I believe Leon can explain that one pretty well so I'll let him chime in.  But from what I've seen/lived, is the fact that the 1-3 man body shops are usually starving literally and never have their finances in order, therefore the skilled employees don't get compensated enough for their skill(hence the hacks that work in some of these places).  Workers see that, owner is always stressed out, bills don't get paid, tension starts, tension builds, bye bye worker, in comes the next guy, works for a few months, sees the trend, bye bye worker, etc........

I have a general outlook on most of the so called professionals in this area and it is, they all suck, and I find I should have done the work myself.   
I have yet to find anyone in any profession in my experience that hasn't in the process broke something else, scratched my car, didn't fix my car in the end, did a poor job in general, etc.....That is why I dabble in a little bit of everything....I'll use cooking for example.. The eating establishments around here all suck, so I started studying on my own and know I'm pretty sure I can cook better than anyone in this area, not to mention, the cleanliness.  I rarely eat anywhere other than my house.  Have you seen what is cooking your food in these establishments...kids, kids who take drugs, kids who have seen the movie "Waiting"(watch that movie and you will never eat out again).  Woodworking, Jewelry making, tattoos, etc... I've done it all just to see if I can do it, and what i've learned is that it really isn't that hard with the right attitude.
I'll use Chris G's(sorry Chris but this is a classic example) vinyl top thread as an example....go read that thread and you'll see what i've gone through my entire life.
This place is invaluable for information and I have to tell you, from what I've seen and if I had money to do so.... every time I needed something done I would literally ship my ride to a few members on this site to get work done rather than try to find someone here in this state.  There are some members on this site with the right passion, smarts, and care for someone else's property, that I would trust anything I own to them cause I know it would be in good hands.  Wow, i'm really off on a tangent here.

One more thing, the engine shop around here is Butler and MacMaster, pretty famous name in these parts....they suck and their engines are junk as of late and I imagine it's because of the same syndrome as the body shops at this point.  I think Marty retired anyways......I'd send my engine work to Ron any day over these supposed legendary engine builders because I know the job would be done correctly.  One of the race engines that was built by B&M that we tore apart last year for the oval track car had used and mismatched parts in it. Nice, why not, we won't be opening it up to see what's in there, might as well cheat the customer if we can get away with it.

OK, i'm done for now.....rant off, thanks Curtis.

Oh, I have an electrical repair on my house story by a "Master Electrician".................

[WingCharger]

Older guys always do better work.

[Armudster]

Another kind of place I avoid, is the ones that when I come in they look at my car saying "hey, nice Chevy", when that happens I go out, do a nice, sick burnout and say: Let's see a Chevy do that! And then to another place I go.
Does it happen to you guys in the US? People mistaken our Mopars by Chevy or Ford, cause that really enrages me!!!!

Most "really good" shops near me are like that. Older guys that have been around for like 30 years and a buddy who hangs around to help.
A old guy near us named Rich has been a mechanic since the '50s and still works with a buddy in a shop around the corner. Back in the late '70s he did a lot of work on my dad's Camaro. (He only works on domestic's too.)

The other big name shops near me wouldn't know a torque wrench from a impact.
If the book don't have it, we don't know.

  Once I needed to install new rubber bushings and control arms, asked a good friend that have a tire store who he recommended to do the job and install it he said to go through a couple of blocks and then turn right you will see a small, two car shop and to look for a guy named Mendes.
  When I came there was this guy and his employee welding a generic car, he stopped and came to me, he complimented my car and said he can do what I need, and said he would also check how the rest of the front suspension is doing, I left my car there.
  In just 5 days he told me to go pick my car back, when I came and looked at my car, not only he did the work right, but he recovered my entire steering collumn, made a good alignment adjusting caster and toe in, fixed my grille mounting, aligned my bumper, made a new factory style bracket to hold a fender that was a little loose, adjusted my 4 speed, attached the console, and made a custom bracket for a fire extinguisher under my seat, I was really thrilled with this guy's work and to my surprise he only charged US$ 150,00, I gave him 300,00 and told him he deserved.
   Sometimes I go there to help him at something, or work on my car, he teached me a lot of things.
   

[hemi-hampton]

I could rant on for days about the body shops but don't want to stress out over it.  What was said allready somewhat sums it up.  LEON.

[Mike DC]

Don't forget that these cars are still getting older all the time. 


Back in 1989 the average parts store worker had to know plenty about 1969 cars.  But would they have known that kind of stuff about a 1949 car?

 

[41husk]

Don't forget that these cars are still getting older all the time. 


Back in 1989 the average parts store worker had to know plenty about 1969 cars.  But would they have known that kind of stuff about a 1949 car?

I think the guy in the eighties would have known more about the 40s cars, due to technology.  All you had to have was desire and a little mechanicle ability to work on the older cars.  Now the majority of the cars you need a degree in computer tech to work on.  the average parts guy needs to be up on these things.  How many people do you think go into the local parts store asking about pre 1975 cars?

 

[Ghoste]

I agree with you 100% Mike except that this isn't really about parts stores, it's about restoration shops which by their very definition should be knowledgable about old cars.

[41husk]

I also feel a vast majority of so called restoration shops (body Shops) can't do any fabrication, welding etc.  They simply replace readily available body pannels on insurance jobs.  In the old days thoase guy's did not even have body putty to work with they worked with molten lead IE lead sled.  With the economy what it is and the older real body guys retiring and dying, I predict it will become more and more difficult to find a shop to do your restoration.  As the number of people doing the work goes down the work available for the few shops that specialize in resto will go up and up.  If you follow the laws of supply and demand, the price for the work done will increase as will the turn around time to get your car back.

[Back N Black]

I also feel a vast majority of so called restoration shops (body Shops) can't do any fabrication, welding etc.  They simply replace readily available body panels on insurance jobs.  In the old days those guy's did not even have body putty to work with they worked with molten lead IE lead sled.  With the economy what it is and the older real body guys retiring and dying, I predict it will become more and more difficult to find a shop to do your restoration.  As the number of people doing the work goes down the work available for the few shops that specialize in resto will go up and up.  If you follow the laws of supply and demand, the price for the work done will increase as will the turn around time to get your car back.

I agree, bodyshops today are all about quick turnover insurance jobs. The new guys doing the bodywork don't have the skill or interest in these old cars. I cannot believe how many shops turned me down when i was looking to have my body and paint done.

[Mike DC]

 
They're just trying to stay in business.  Auto body repair shops usually can't even break even unless they get everything done in less than the official "book" time for the job. 




And old restorations are so bad it's a joke.  Lots of people expect to get painstaking metalwork done for a price that would barely even cover the parts/materials involved.   


 

[FJMG]

  Can't say much about the local resto businesses but I know a very fussy mechanic who was hired by a large engine rebuilding chain. On his first day he was verbally repremanded and was promptly asked "what the !@#$ are you doing? these things only have to last a year!" I have this pessimistic feeling that they are not the only ones with this philosophy so I guess I'll just do things myself.