Bad times and not buying American, your thoughts?

[Mike DC]

We spend BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars a year to countries that could care less about us and yet we are in some real trouble and WE (the tax payers) have to foot the bill.

Agreed.  The cost of 20,000 Pontiac jobs is shite right now.  There will probably be 100x that much money MISPLACED before the financial industry bailouts are finished.

I say if you want to buy from other countries fine, but we need to tax the hell out of the import auto's coming in.

We literally don't have the power to wanna start leveling the playing field with China & Japan.  The two of them already owned a couple trillion bucks in US debt before the economic crash & bailouts, let alone now.  If they dump any of that cash onto the open market, we're toast. 

China & Japan are still willing to loan us daily operating money simply because we spend so much of it on their countries. 

[Silver R/T]

Problem is with companies laying off people instead of keeping them and pay them a little lower wages. Many Americans don't want to work for low wages though. There should be regulation on what comes in from other countries. There should be laws against speculators.

[runningman]

The thing that I found to be sad is I heard that GM was loosing 20,000+ jobs due to the shut down of Pontiac.      So, GM gets bailout money but what do the 20,000+ workers get that loose jobs ?      We spend BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars a year to countries that could care less about us and yet we are in some real trouble and WE (the tax payers) have to foot the bill.  I say if you want to buy from other countries fine, but we need to tax the hell out of the import auto's coming in.         I'm sure all the imports are looking at this as great news for them.  The more American car companies fail, the better for them.  You know the imports will take advantage of this and drop prices and come out with more appealing models.  It's business, and when your competition is in trouble you sweep in and grab more customers.           I guess time will tell.     One more thing.   I know for a fact that lots of these American workers DON'T drive American cars.  I would love to see someone go to a plant like GM and count the cars in the parking lot that are imports.          Or, do a list for all the employees to fill out, listing the cars they own.       Sorry, I mean no harm in this but just to show that this is how it is.     

Not entirely accurate, last I checked there were two or three foreign auto's in our lot and they are junk 

[Shakey]

The stores we all shop at, tell the manufacturers what they'll pay.

Precisely - and the consumers are always demanding lower prices from the stores.

We've done it to ourselves!   

[1969chargerrtse]

The thing that I found to be sad is I heard that GM was loosing 20,000+ jobs due to the shut down of Pontiac.      So, GM gets bailout money but what do the 20,000+ workers get that loose jobs ?      We spend BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars a year to countries that could care less about us and yet we are in some real trouble and WE (the tax payers) have to foot the bill.  I say if you want to buy from other countries fine, but we need to tax the hell out of the import auto's coming in.         I'm sure all the imports are looking at this as great news for them.  The more American car companies fail, the better for them.  You know the imports will take advantage of this and drop prices and come out with more appealing models.  It's business, and when your competition is in trouble you sweep in and grab more customers.           I guess time will tell.     One more thing.   I know for a fact that lots of these American workers DON'T drive American cars.  I would love to see someone go to a plant like GM and count the cars in the parking lot that are imports.          Or, do a list for all the employees to fill out, listing the cars they own.       Sorry, I mean no harm in this but just to show that this is how it is.     

That's already been done.  There is a website somewhere that went to GM and did just that, they showed all the Import cars in the Gm executive lot. 

[skip68]

Really ?  I didn't know that.      I would imagine that most the cars at the GM parking lot were imports.  Can you post that site ?      So then how can they expect us to support something that they don't ? 

[71green go]

Not so surprising that the workers at a plant don't buy the product......they see what crap goes on inside of the assembly plant and it turns them off the product...ask a guy that works at a hot dog plant....they will tell ya they will never eat a hot dog!...cause they see what goes in it..

As far as raising the import taxes so Foreign cars are more $$$....that's crazy, are you thinking by forcing people to buy an American product because the foreign cars are too much.......now that's really fair making me buy something I don't really want...simple build a great product and I Joe consumer will buy it

Lets look at some GM vehicles...how would you rate them

Sunfire...I rate 5 out of 10
Blazer.... maybe maybe a 6 out of 10
caviler...same as sunfire
grand am...or any other vehicle on the same platform......6 out of 10
Firebird......6.5 out of 10

I owned each one of these and was very unhappy with the blown head gaskets/electrical problems/power windows/Wheel bearings/rotor warpage..creaks/leaks...you name it

I have now bought a Mazda Tribute...loved it.......Mazda protoge 5....loved it...Mazda pickup(Ranger in disguise)...loved it...and now I own a 2008 Mazda 3 GT sport...LOVE IT......and we bought a 2007 mustang 4.0  very nice, no problems

The ford relationship with Mazda has been great with the vehicles I have owned...my Mazda 3 is an amazing little car(its all Japanese).....ALL of the GM vehicles I have bought new have had many issues..I will not buy GM again, they did this to themselves I gave them numerous chances to impress me...the quality with fit and finish was not there...

And anyone that says I am hurting the North American economy buy not buying a piece of crap......there is also a fortune in taxes and import tariffs/dealership taxes/landtaxes/salesman income taxes etc that North America is getting out of me buying a foreign car..it does allot still to stimulate the economy..

Don't let pride blind you...you can accept inferior crap..or force them to compete in quality

[Khyron]

I know the profits go oversees.

that right there ends this thread for me, Thats why I buy american.... when I can... plain and simple.

and when I can is any time I buy a car...My wife almost bought a nissian... I put a FAST stop to that, and she's ahppy as hell with her little ION.

[derailed]

I say if you want to buy from other countries fine, but we need to tax the hell out of the import auto's coming in.  

I agree, this should also pertain to any "american made car" that is built outisde the us or at least knock a few pesos off the price.

[68charger383]

I think part of the reason the US economy is in trouble is because of the overall debt mentality, which plays right into the hands of new car sales. Between subprime mortgage lending and shady auto loan practices for more than the borrower can afford, people cannot stay afloat when something goes a little bit haywire, like $4/gallon gas or a leak in the roof.

I think the current situation all stems from the oil crisis. When oil shot up, everything else seemed to quickly go to hell.

The auto industry tanked in the US since they built SUVs and trucks. Once gas hit $3 they couldn't sell one and had only one or two gas efficient vehicles to offer vs. the numerous high mileage gas and hybrid cars being offered from the foreign producers.  Hell, GM and Chrysler still do not have any hybrids for sale? Toyota is going onto their third generation Prius.

Once oil prices went up, prices on everything else went up or had a fuel surcharge. The extra $100-$300/mo in gas costs ate up people's monthly disposable income which hit every other industry and economic sector in the economy and caused what we now see.  People live to the end of their limits and do not save, so that extra $ and cost for oil stopped them from paying debt, going to dinner, buying stuff etc.

Sad thing, they let up after they saw what they did to the global economy. But its going to come back again. slowly but surely, it will be coming back. 

[Brock Samson]

I think part of the reason the US economy is in trouble is because of the overall debt mentality, which plays right into the hands of new car sales. Between subprime mortgage lending and shady auto loan practices for more than the borrower can afford, people cannot stay afloat when something goes a little bit haywire, like $4/gallon gas or a leak in the roof.

I think the current situation all stems from the oil crisis. When oil shot up, everything else seemed to quickly go to hell.

The auto industry tanked in the US since they built SUVs and trucks. Once gas hit $3 they couldn't sell one and had only one or two gas efficient vehicles to offer vs. the numerous high mileage gas and hybrid cars being offered from the foreign producers.  Hell, GM and Chrysler still do not have any hybrids for sale? Toyota is going onto their third generation Prius.

Once oil prices went up, prices on everything else went up or had a fuel surcharge. The extra $100-$300/mo in gas costs ate up people's monthly disposable income which hit every other industry and economic sector in the economy and caused what we now see.  People live to the end of their limits and do not save, so that extra $ and cost for oil stopped them from paying debt, going to dinner, buying stuff etc.

Sad thing, they let up after they saw what they did to the global economy. But its going to come back again. slowly but surely, it will be coming back. 

  Well,.. actually they do offer hybreds, though chrysler just withdrew the aspen and durrango models
Chevy has the Malibu and ford  the fusion which are quite competitive with the accord/Camry theycompete against
Chevy and GM also offers SUV hybrids, and the Chevy volt is due out soon and is a true plug in hybrid and though it looks like absolute crap compared to the show car they teased everyone with, it is state of the art and will form the basis of many new plug in derrivitive hybrids for the General...

  But beyond this and more to the point, I suspect the real culprit here is folks living way above their means and though certainly encouraged to do so by banks and new car dealers - no one held a gun to their heads and made them buy a Hummer to go in that new Las Vegas two car garage they bought with no thought to the looming balloon payment or the eventual rising cost of gasoline.
Besides which,  our Govt. flying a C-5a load of  Benjimens over to the big sandlot where they were somehow mislaid  didn't exactly help things.



And BTW: this time last year,..  gas here was approaching $5.oo per gallon. 
that'll sure hurt anyone who commutes or trucks their goods.
it's bound to be back to even higher levels about the time you want to hit the road this summer.

[Mike DC]

But beyond this and more to the point, I suspect the real culprit here is folks living way above their means and though certainly encouraged to do so by banks and new car dealers - no one held a gun to their heads and made them buy a Hummer to go in that new Las Vegas two car garage they bought with no thought to the looming balloon payment or the eventual rising cost of gasoline.
Besides which,  our Govt. flying a C-5a load of  Benjimens over to the big sandlot where they were somehow mislaid   didn't exactly help things.

A whole culture living beyond its means.  It started there. 



A lot of money never just disappears in the econommic market.  A "bursting bubble" just means the lost money was never more than imagined in the first place. 

The baby boomer generation grew up never knowing anything but a world of eternal economic growth & upward lifestyle mobility.  Then 1974-1982(ish) happened.  Reagan falsely restored the working & middle class's sense of normalcy by borrowing away the problem but it wasn't getting fixed.  Everyone in Washington since then has just dug the hole deeper.  Corporate America didn't care because it could just become Corporate World and profit from the problem.


It's 2009 and the bubble has finally burst.

[1969chargerrtse]

Really ?  I didn't know that.      I would imagine that most the cars at the GM parking lot were imports.  Can you post that site ?      So then how can they expect us to support something that they don't ? 

I saw it on the news on T.V they showed a video shot of the imports in the GM Boss's lots and mentioned some internet site that did it?

[chargerkid01]

here is a good one for you sit back and think, How much was your charger new back in the 60s and 70s?? Why are we paying so much more today for a car that is made from plastic, can't be worked on without a computer, and are so ugly it is not funny. It is the same with trucks (excpet the ugly part with the 2010 ram)I don't follow the economy as well as I should but I know enough to see what is wrong. Don't get me wrong I know back then Those prices was a lot of money, what I'm getting at is we had better quality car for less.

[72chargerSE]

I believe this has the earmarks of a political discussion and should be locked.

[chargerkid01]

na I was just complaining about the prices of cars!!!

[Brock Samson]

  I have allways made a concerted effort to buy American,..  all my vehicles were made here unless you consider the fact that my 300 M LH series was built just north of the border,.. in Brampton Ontario, and while I'm addressing that,.. tying it to the "Quality Question,  I'd stack my M against any front wheel drive 6 Cly. made since it was built in 1999,..
I haven't yet found any thing I want to replace it with, simply put it's a keeper and ten years after first sold it's still getting daily compliments for it's style, features and performance.
Foresight isn't a requirement in life, but it helps one survive, my parents taught me you need to look both ways before crossing he street and not to crap where you eat.
Now some things I buy are indeed imported, a couple of my guitars are cheaper then the American versions, the PRS is from japan and my newest used Stratocaster is Mexican made but i didn't buy them new the PRS was a trade and the Strat was a 150.oo Flea Market deal...
Now, understand, I absolutely take every advantage to save when making purchases I wouldn't buy a brand new car -  I'd buy a carefully chosen lease return and not take a huge deprecation hit. or pay $1,300 for a new American made Strat when I can put $300 worth of Seymour Duncan pickups in my flea market find and save $850.oo.
But some folks are in a different (read higher) economic income level and can afford to buy a new muscle car every year, or a M-6 they'll never pop the hood on but I can say everything I have is paid for, I've never bought anything unless I had the cash, with only a couple exceptions, most notably I paid off the loan on the M in four years (which cost $5K) and the chargers $10K paint job in three.
but those were the exceptions. i try to benefit the local community while thinking globally...
A man's gotta know his limitations... 
and this isn't political, it's an economic debate.

[mauve66]

everybody is bitching cause the auto makers made too many trucks and suv's, they made them cause thats what the american buyer wanted!!!  at one time the ram accounted for more than half of chryslers sales, they built what we wanted, no your bitchin cause they don't have any hybrids?? until the Prius came out you couldn't give away those cars, as a matter of fact several years ago toyota or honda, whoever it was had to terminate all the leases they had on their electric cars and junk them due to warranty issues and the fact that no one would buy the rest of them sitting on the lot.

when gas went above $4 gal we stopped buying trks and suv's but we didn't start buy Priuses, we just stopped buying trucks, but the people that want trks DON'T want a Prius

[Mike DC]

everybody is bitching cause the auto makers made too many trucks and suv's, they made them cause thats what the american buyer wanted!!!  at one time the ram accounted for more than half of chryslers sales, they built what we wanted, no your bitchin cause they don't have any hybrids??

Yeah, but the OEMs just assuming that everyone in America could keep buying & driving 9mpg trucks/SUVs indefinitely?  That was not sustainable and they were idiots not to see it coming a decade away. 


The truck/SUV boom has been a 15-year-long free cash handout to Detroit.  They could have spent that money preparing for the future instead of using it to tell themselves they weren't in trouble anymore.   

 
 

[Lowprofile]

My wife and I have always tried to buy "American" when we could. Its hard to these days, and sometimes impossible. This past December, we went car/suv shopping. I was looking at a Tahoe, while my wife wanted a Jeep Wrangler.......we got neither. Couldn't get the deal we wanted with either company/dealer. What we ended up with is s Nissan Titan. We got it at a great price, a good rate, a bunch of extras & a great warranty. I have to tell you, I am very impressed with this truck. Supercharged, fuel injected, aluminum V-8, 5-Speed Auto 4x4.....10,000lbs towing capacity, boxed frame, etc...  Its like a Lexus inside, Leather heated power seats, onboard GPS, Rockford-fosgate stereo w 10 speakers......anyways, its got everything! Best of all, my wife loves it!

It was built in America, by Americans.....does that count?

[richRTSE]

I have to tell you, I am very impressed with this truck. Supercharged, fuel injected, aluminum V-8...

Supercharged? Is that a factory option or did you add that? I thought the only engine is 5.6?

The 2008 Nissan Titan only provides one engine option. The Titan's engine is an Endurance 5.6-liter V8 with 317 horsepower and 385 pound-feet of torque -- and reviewers couldn't be happier-except when it comes time to get gas. Both the rear-wheel and all-wheel drive Titan rate at 12 miles per gallon in the city and 17 mpg on the highway, according to the Environmental Protection Agency's ratings.

[skip68]

    Nice truck LowPro   

[Tilar]

I think the current situation all stems from the oil crisis. When oil shot up, everything else seemed to quickly go to hell.

The auto industry tanked in the US since they built SUVs and trucks. Once gas hit $3 they couldn't sell one and had only one or two gas efficient vehicles to offer vs. the numerous high mileage gas and hybrid cars being offered from the foreign producers.  Hell, GM and Chrysler still do not have any hybrids for sale? Toyota is going onto their third generation Prius.

Once oil prices went up, prices on everything else went up or had a fuel surcharge. The extra $100-$300/mo in gas costs ate up people's monthly disposable income which hit every other industry and economic sector in the economy and caused what we now see.  People live to the end of their limits and do not save, so that extra $ and cost for oil stopped them from paying debt, going to dinner, buying stuff etc.

Sad thing, they let up after they saw what they did to the global economy. But its going to come back again. slowly but surely, it will be coming back. 

Ding Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner. Sad thing is the government could have done something about this years ago but they wouldn't. But not to worry, The liberal extremists and the idiot we have running our country will finish off any chance we had of a "come back".

I believe this has the earmarks of a political discussion and should be locked.

Now it has the earmarks of a political discussion.

[Mike DC]

Ding Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner. Sad thing is the government could have done something about this years ago but they wouldn't. But not to worry, The liberal extremists and the idiot we have running our country will finish off any chance we had of a "come back".

Yes, I don't know why Obama & the liberals won't just put more oil reserves in the ground.   

 

[Tilar]

Ding Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner. Sad thing is the government could have done something about this years ago but they wouldn't. But not to worry, The liberal extremists and the idiot we have running our country will finish off any chance we had of a "come back".

Yes, I don't know why Obama & the liberals won't just put more oil reserves in the ground.   

 

That's not the problem, we have plenty of oil. The problem is them stopping us from drilling in places that have been proven to have plenty of oil. He changed his mind and campaigned that he was all for offshore drilling and now that he's in office he decided that he's not for it again. Imagine that.