Water pumps...whats the difference?

[Moparman01]

I was just wondering if there is any difference between a standard big block water pump and an air-conditioning car water pump? I'm fighting an overheating issue in my 440 powered Charger and one of my Mopar buddies said the first thing he'd do was get a water pump for an A/C car (my car is not an A/C car by the way) and get rid of the Mancini Racing high flow aluminum pump as it could be flowin the coolant thru the motor TOO fast, but none of the parts stores list any kind of differnce for A/C and non-A/C engines. My motor is a mild steet 440, iron heads, 509 cam, pump gas, nothing over the top. Any opinions?

[Ghoste]

IIRC, the a/c water pumps have slightly smaller impeller blades which moves the coolant a little more slowly.  It was once a common thing to add an a/c pump to your drag car since it also took less power to drive.
Really stretching the memory here but the Hemi and four speed cars may have also used this same pump?

[John_Kunkel]

The A/C water pumps are driven faster (typically 140% crankshaft speed) to get more fan speed so they need a smaller 6-vane impeller to prevent cavitation at higher rpm's. The 8-vane non-A/C pumps are driven closer to crankshaft speed (.90%).

Using the smaller 6-vane pump with non-A/C pulleys will definitely move less water.

[mauve66]

Using the smaller 6-vane pump with non-A/C pulleys will definitely move less water.

could that CAUSE over heating?? my non-ac car has a MP aluminum pump with only 6 vanes on it but still the non-ac pulleys, when i got out here in 98 it was my everyday car but it overheated all the time in traffic, as long as it was moving it was ok, even with a 26 4spd radiator/shroud/fan clutch and the tranny run straight to a trans cooler..... or would i have other problems???  mechanical not personal...........

[Ghoste]

In some cases, yes.  It's a cooling system after all and like any system all of the parts need to be in balance with one another in order to work effectively.  Coolant flow is one of the necessary actions taking place in order for the system to operate.  It is possible to move coolant too quickly or too slowly and in either case see operating temperatures rise.

[dspaulding70]

You all are making me anxious....I bought the 440source.com aluminum water pump and housing and have installed it on my 440 rebuild.  We are not finished yet so I have not started the engine but this will be a 440 with A/C.  Their site does not mention anything about issues with A/C cars and their equipment.

HERE IS WHAT THEIR WEBSITE SAYS ABOUT THE WATERPUMP


We carry brand new (not remanufactured) water pumps for both standard car applications as well as motorhomes and heavy duty trucks.

Shown above is our new high flow aluminum water pump. We guarantee you'll find these as good OR BETTER than the name brand units, at a FRACTION of the cost! Manufactured to aircraft tolerances from 6061 alloy, these brand new pumps use a heavy duty 3/4" intregal ball bearing along with a billet steel fan hub to tolerate heavy torsional loads at high rpm's. The heavy duty cast iron impeller is CAD designed and fully CNC machined. You'll notice the impeller design looks very similar to large industrial pumps used in industry. These precision curved vanes allow this pump to achieve the highest possible flow rate (40GPM) and pressure with a minimum of cavitation. These will fit stock water pump housings, or they work great with our aluminum housing. 


THOUGHTS?

[maxwellwedge]

Are you using a thermostat? You should be.

[firefighter3931]

You all are making me anxious....I bought the 440source.com aluminum water pump and housing and have installed it on my 440 rebuild.  We are not finished yet so I have not started the engine but this will be a 440 with A/C.  Their site does not mention anything about issues with A/C cars and their equipment.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over the 440 source housing and pump. My buddy uses that setup on his Supercharged 446 and as we all know Roots blowers throw off a ton of heat. In the summertime traffic jams his car doesn't go over 200*F sitting in traffic. The 440 Source pump is identical to the same Edelbrock part...probably manufactured by the same company. It does have the anti-cavitation plate as well. I have the same setup going on my own car. 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

I was just wondering if there is any difference between a standard big block water pump and an air-conditioning car water pump? I'm fighting an overheating issue in my 440 powered Charger and one of my Mopar buddies said the first thing he'd do was get a water pump for an A/C car (my car is not an A/C car by the way) and get rid of the Mancini Racing high flow aluminum pump as it could be flowin the coolant thru the motor TOO fast, but none of the parts stores list any kind of differnce for A/C and non-A/C engines. My motor is a mild steet 440, iron heads, 509 cam, pump gas, nothing over the top. Any opinions?

I highly doubt the waterpump is a problem. You could have an air pocket in the cooling system that needs to be bled out. It could also be a tuning issue ; timing retarded or jetting too lean. The radiator could also be plugged up...lots of possibilities. 

What size rad ?
how many rows/cores ?
Fan shroud ?
Is this a new engine build ?
Is this a problem at idle only or does it overheat out on the road ?
What type of guage are you using...stock or aftermarket ?



Ron

[squeakfinder]

I just put the Mancini aluminum pump on mine with the hp Mr Gasket 180 deg. thermostat. But don't have the car running yet. So... . I can't imagine this being a step backword's.

[ACUDANUT]

I was just wondering if there is any difference between a standard big block water pump and an air-conditioning car water pump? I'm fighting an overheating issue in my 440 powered Charger and one of my Mopar buddies said the first thing he'd do was get a water pump for an A/C car (my car is not an A/C car by the way) and get rid of the Mancini Racing high flow aluminum pump as it could be flowin the coolant thru the motor TOO fast, but none of the parts stores list any kind of differnce for A/C and non-A/C engines. My motor is a mild steet 440, iron heads, 509 cam, pump gas, nothing over the top. Any opinions?

I highly doubt the waterpump is a problem. You could have an air pocket in the cooling system that needs to be bled out. It could also be a tuning issue ; timing retarded or jetting too lean. The radiator could also be plugged up...lots of possibilities. 

What size rad ?
how many rows/cores ?
Fan shroud ?
Is this a new engine build ?
Is this a problem at idle only or does it overheat out on the road ?
What type of guage are you using...stock or aftermarket ?



Ron

Very true.  Coolant moving too fast can't be a problem.  The thermostat controls that.  Radiator or a blocked coolant port in your engine sounds like the cause.

[SomeCarGuy]

You all are making me anxious....I bought the 440source.com aluminum water pump and housing and have installed it on my 440 rebuild.  We are not finished yet so I have not started the engine but this will be a 440 with A/C.  Their site does not mention anything about issues with A/C cars and their equipment.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over the 440 source housing and pump. My buddy uses that setup on his Supercharged 446 and as we all know Roots blowers throw off a ton of heat. In the summertime traffic jams his car doesn't go over 200*F sitting in traffic. The 440 Source pump is identical to the same Edelbrock part...probably manufactured by the same company. It does have the anti-cavitation plate as well. I have the same setup going on my own car. 


Ron

I seriously doubt they are made by the same people.  Might be a copied design but Edelbrock makes it's stuff in the US.  440 source is known for made in China.

[franklin1990]

        My conclusion is that there is no cooler pump so its was overheat when you used.

_________________
Thermostat

[bull]

What shape is your radiator in?

[Moparman01]

I was just wondering if there is any difference between a standard big block water pump and an air-conditioning car water pump? I'm fighting an overheating issue in my 440 powered Charger and one of my Mopar buddies said the first thing he'd do was get a water pump for an A/C car (my car is not an A/C car by the way) and get rid of the Mancini Racing high flow aluminum pump as it could be flowin the coolant thru the motor TOO fast, but none of the parts stores list any kind of differnce for A/C and non-A/C engines. My motor is a mild steet 440, iron heads, 509 cam, pump gas, nothing over the top. Any opinions?

I highly doubt the waterpump is a problem. You could have an air pocket in the cooling system that needs to be bled out. It could also be a tuning issue ; timing retarded or jetting too lean. The radiator could also be plugged up...lots of possibilities. 

What size rad ?
how many rows/cores ?
Fan shroud ?
Is this a new engine build ?
Is this a problem at idle only or does it overheat out on the road ?
What type of guage are you using...stock or aftermarket ?



Ron

Rad size: 26" 3 core Chyrsler, has been re-cored
Fan shroud: YES!
Engine in an older freshen up, ran in a freinds car for a season with NO heating issues!!
idle all day long at 160* in the drive way...hit the road at speed and up goes the temp rather quickly, today i went just around the block, barely a mile and the temp jumped from 160 to just over 190*, will go higher...220-230 if i drive farther...
Using both the stock quage AND and aftermarket, actually have tried 2 different aftermarket guages, same results
Just changed out the lower radiator hose, found spring inside all coiled to one end, put in new hose with new spring, didn't help.
Tried several different t-stats...hasn't helped.
Bled out any possible air-bubbles...
Had it professionaly tuned by reputable (and friend) Mopar racer, runs like a raped ape...

So there you have it...all the things i have tried and still heating up on me...i'm at my wits end!! 

[squeakfinder]

 Just going down the list of possibilities. Doe's it have an automatic transmission? Do you know what shape it's in?

Doe's it have a clutch fan?