how much lift ??

[69chargerR/T]

440 stock 906 heads how much valve lift can you have and not have valve guide to valve retainer clearance problems ?  I have asked people about this and no one has the same answer   Does anyone know for sure how much lift you can have with out having to trim the valve guides. 

[69chargerR/T]

 

[firefighter3931]

I've ran many with .510 lift and had no problems. It doesn't hurt to check, though.


Ron

[maxwellwedge]

How about duration?

[firefighter3931]

How about duration?

It depends on the piston/cylinder head combination. The current cam in my 446 is advertised at 295*/264*@.050/109 LSA and .580 gross lift. Thats as big as we could go with the replacement pistons at zero deck and the closed chamber Edelbrock RPM's. The measured PV clearance was .079 intake/.098 exhaust...about as tight as you want to run on a street type build, inmo. 

Ron

[maxwellwedge]

How about duration?

It depends on the piston/cylinder head combination. The current cam in my 446 is advertised at 295*/264*@.050/109 LSA and .580 gross lift. That's as big as we could go with the replacement pistons at zero deck and the closed chamber Edelbrock RPM's. The measured PV clearance was .079 intake/.098 exhaust...about as tight as you want to run on a street type build, inmo. 

Ron

No - No - By duration I meant how long until someone answers my post....   


Yup - That's a good bunch of duration - I agree with your .510 figure...as long as everything else is in good shape .510 all day. I'll never forget my big leap in the '70's from a purple shaft to the "new" 509. That thing woke my 440-6 up like a switch was turned on. I went into the 12's on street bias ply's with them still spinning thru the traps. Then I went Drag strip happy and evolved  to an Isky roller, tunnel ram etc. Ah - The good old days....but I digress. 

[69chargerR/T]

I've ran many with .510 lift and had no problems. It doesn't hurt to check, though.


Ron

I know I've asked this stuff before but, I just want to be sure before I buy a cam thats not going to work. The cam I'm looking at is .513 on the exhaust, so should I pull the springs on one cylinder and check to see how much clearance I have before I buy a cam with that much lift.  Or maybe I'll get a cam with less lift I have an MP cam now that I want to get rid of, and get something better.

[69chargerR/T]

How about duration?

It depends on the piston/cylinder head combination. The current cam in my 446 is advertised at 295*/264*@.050/109 LSA and .580 gross lift. That's as big as we could go with the replacement pistons at zero deck and the closed chamber Edelbrock RPM's. The measured PV clearance was .079 intake/.098 exhaust...about as tight as you want to run on a street type build, inmo. 

Ron

No - No - By duration I meant how long until someone answers my post....   


Yup - That's a good bunch of duration - I agree with your .510 figure...as long as everything else is in good shape .510 all day. I'll never forget my big leap in the '70's from a purple shaft to the "new" 509. That thing woke my 440-6 up like a switch was turned on. I went into the 12's on street bias ply's with them still spinning thru the traps. Then I went Drag strip happy and evolved  to an Isky roller, tunnel ram etc. Ah - The good old days....but I digress. 

I had a couple guys tell me they had valve guide clearance problems with the 509 cam. That why I'm trying to find out how much lift you can have on 906 heads.

[firefighter3931]

How about duration?

It depends on the piston/cylinder head combination. The current cam in my 446 is advertised at 295*/264*@.050/109 LSA and .580 gross lift. That's as big as we could go with the replacement pistons at zero deck and the closed chamber Edelbrock RPM's. The measured PV clearance was .079 intake/.098 exhaust...about as tight as you want to run on a street type build, inmo. 

Ron

No - No - By duration I meant how long until someone answers my post....   


Yup - That's a good bunch of duration - I agree with your .510 figure...as long as everything else is in good shape .510 all day. I'll never forget my big leap in the '70's from a purple shaft to the "new" 509. That thing woke my 440-6 up like a switch was turned on. I went into the 12's on street bias ply's with them still spinning thru the traps. Then I went Drag strip happy and evolved  to an Isky roller, tunnel ram etc. Ah - The good old days....but I digress. 

I had a couple guys tell me they had valve guide clearance problems with the 509 cam. That why I'm trying to find out how much lift you can have on 906 heads.

It's possible that others have had problems...but it could have been a valve float issue that caused the interferance/contact between the guide and retainer. If the valvesprings are weak or worn out or the engine was over revved....any/all of those things will cause valve float.


Ron

[69chargerR/T]

How about duration?

It depends on the piston/cylinder head combination. The current cam in my 446 is advertised at 295*/264*@.050/109 LSA and .580 gross lift. That's as big as we could go with the replacement pistons at zero deck and the closed chamber Edelbrock RPM's. The measured PV clearance was .079 intake/.098 exhaust...about as tight as you want to run on a street type build, inmo. 

Ron

No - No - By duration I meant how long until someone answers my post....   


Yup - That's a good bunch of duration - I agree with your .510 figure...as long as everything else is in good shape .510 all day. I'll never forget my big leap in the '70's from a purple shaft to the "new" 509. That thing woke my 440-6 up like a switch was turned on. I went into the 12's on street bias ply's with them still spinning thru the traps. Then I went Drag strip happy and evolved  to an Isky roller, tunnel ram etc. Ah - The good old days....but I digress. 

I had a couple guys tell me they had valve guide clearance problems with the 509 cam. That why I'm trying to find out how much lift you can have on 906 heads.

It's possible that others have had problems...but it could have been a valve float issue that caused the interferance/contact between the guide and retainer. If the valvesprings are weak or worn out or the engine was over revved....any/all of those things will cause valve float.


Ron

Ron, maybe I'll just get an engle K56 cam its has .504 lift. I shouldn't have clearance problems with that cam. I just want to do a cam swap I don't want to have to pull the heads to trim the valve guides.

[firefighter3931]

How about duration?

It depends on the piston/cylinder head combination. The current cam in my 446 is advertised at 295*/264*@.050/109 LSA and .580 gross lift. That's as big as we could go with the replacement pistons at zero deck and the closed chamber Edelbrock RPM's. The measured PV clearance was .079 intake/.098 exhaust...about as tight as you want to run on a street type build, inmo. 

Ron

No - No - By duration I meant how long until someone answers my post....   


Yup - That's a good bunch of duration - I agree with your .510 figure...as long as everything else is in good shape .510 all day. I'll never forget my big leap in the '70's from a purple shaft to the "new" 509. That thing woke my 440-6 up like a switch was turned on. I went into the 12's on street bias ply's with them still spinning thru the traps. Then I went Drag strip happy and evolved  to an Isky roller, tunnel ram etc. Ah - The good old days....but I digress. 

I had a couple guys tell me they had valve guide clearance problems with the 509 cam. That why I'm trying to find out how much lift you can have on 906 heads.

It's possible that others have had problems...but it could have been a valve float issue that caused the interferance/contact between the guide and retainer. If the valvesprings are weak or worn out or the engine was over revved....any/all of those things will cause valve float.


Ron

Ron, maybe I'll just get an engle K56 cam its has .504 lift. I shouldn't have clearance problems with that cam. I just want to do a cam swap I don't want to have to pull the heads to trim the valve guides.

The K56 is an excellent choice....i wouldn't hesitate to use it in place of the voodoo stick. 



Ron

[69chargerR/T]

Ron, like I said be fore my car runs good with the MP cam I have now ( I think it's a .484 )  But, from what I've read no one likes the MP cams because there is better stuff out ther now. I was all set to get the voodoo 60303 cam. I did ask you about this cam some time ago (I never got the swap done) I am going to get this done this spring. So I asked some question about the lift on this cam .494/.513 and got all different answers on how much lift you can have on stock 906 heads. So now I don't know what cam to use So at looking at cams again these are what I'm looking at, the engle K-56, the comp XE274. If I recall your not a fan of comp cams. What do you think of these two cams, how will they idle, vacum (I have power brakes) and performance wize, or power. I know the engle has a 904 profile like the 904 mopar lifters, does the comp cam have the 904 profile, and is this important. I really did like the voodoo 60303 I heard good things about it, but the lift ? bothers me I don't know if the smaller voodoo will be enough for what I want ( mild/ hot but streetable if that makes sense)  I'm just confused now

[firefighter3931]

Ron, like I said be fore my car runs good with the MP cam I have now ( I think it's a .484 )  But, from what I've read no one likes the MP cams because there is better stuff out ther now. I was all set to get the voodoo 60303 cam. I did ask you about this cam some time ago (I never got the swap done) I am going to get this done this spring. So I asked some question about the lift on this cam .494/.513 and got all different answers on how much lift you can have on stock 906 heads. So now I don't know what cam to use So at looking at cams again these are what I'm looking at, the engle K-56, the comp XE274. If I recall your not a fan of comp cams. What do you think of these two cams, how will they idle, vacum (I have power brakes) and performance wize, or power. I know the engle has a 904 profile like the 904 mopar lifters, does the comp cam have the 904 profile, and is this important. I really did like the voodoo 60303 I heard good things about it, but the lift ? bothers me I don't know if the smaller voodoo will be enough for what I want ( mild/ hot but streetable if that makes sense)  I'm just confused now

The Engle cams are more modern than the old MP stuff and make more torque, idle better and are easier to tune. The Lunati grinds are very similar in that they are a nice upgrade over old school stuff. 

Going from a 484 to the K56 you will see a lot more bottom end power and torque as well as improved throttle response and off idle power. The engine will also idle smoother and make more manifold vacuum which makes tuning easier. With heavy cars and stock/mild converters and 3.23-3.55 gears it's important to match up the cam with the rest of the car's equipment.

The 484 really needs a 3000 stall and 3.91 gears to work properly, inmo.

I like the XE274 better than the 484 but it's not as good a choice as the k56 for your application, again in my opinion. 



Ron

[69chargerR/T]

Ron, I should have told you what I've got   

440 30 over
TRW forged flat top pistons
906 heads stock
hooker comp 1 7/8 headers
3" exhaust with magnaflows
TCI trans
TCI conveter around 2400 stall
3.91 sure grip
eddy RPM intake
holley 750 DP carb
MP orange box 15* 36 total at 2800/3000 rpm

Like I said the car runs good but I think it could be better with a different cam. I think what hurts me is I'm limited on how much lift I can have. So I'm thinking get a cam with the most lift I can have on my motor. Does this sound right   I don't know if its worth pulling the heads and triming the guides, so I can run more lift the stock heads will only flow so much anyway right Sorry to run on like this I'm just trying to make the right choice Thanks for your help again Alan

[firefighter3931]

Ron, I should have told you what I've got   

440 30 over
TRW forged flat top pistons
906 heads stock
hooker comp 1 7/8 headers
3" exhaust with magnaflows
TCI trans
TCI conveter around 2400 stall
3.91 sure grip
eddy RPM intake
holley 750 DP carb
MP orange box 15* 36 total at 2800/3000 rpm

Like I said the car runs good but I think it could be better with a different cam. I think what hurts me is I'm limited on how much lift I can have. So I'm thinking get a cam with the most lift I can have on my motor. Does this sound right   I don't know if its worth pulling the heads and triming the guides, so I can run more lift the stock heads will only flow so much anyway right Sorry to run on like this I'm just trying to make the right choice Thanks for your help again Alan

Alan, that's a pretty well sorted out combo. If it were mine and i was looking for some significant power changes it would involve installing a cam with more lift and faster valve action. That of course would require some valveguide machining. With the 3.91's a 2400 stall I would use something like the Engle K58 which has .520 lift and a more agressive ramp. It also has 8* less duration at .050 than your current purple shaft which is better suited to your current stall speed. 

If you're unwilling to pull the heads i would just leave it alone for now. You did say that you were happy with it. 


Ron

[69chargerR/T]

Ron, I was afraid you were going to say that. You know how it is when you have one of these cars we are never " happy " it always could be better   I was just thinking that a cam change would clean up the " dirty idle " that the MP cams have and get maybe 1 to 2 more MPG out of it and a little more performance at the same time. I want to get some cylinder heads in the future ( eddys or MP 452's ) but that will not be for some time, maybe 2 years or so when the funds will be better Thats why I was looking at the voodoo cam, and now looking at the engle K-56 its about the same as the voodoo. How do think the K-56 would be in my build as it is now compared to the MP cam I have now ?? Would it be worth it to put the K-56 in   Or maybe I should wait and do a cam swap when I have the funds to do the heads, these are the things going on in my head   Alan

[firefighter3931]

Ron, I was afraid you were going to say that. You know how it is when you have one of these cars we are never " happy " it always could be better   I was just thinking that a cam change would clean up the " dirty idle " that the MP cams have and get maybe 1 to 2 more MPG out of it and a little more performance at the same time. I want to get some cylinder heads in the future ( eddys or MP 452's ) but that will not be for some time, maybe 2 years or so when the funds will be better Thats why I was looking at the voodoo cam, and now looking at the engle K-56 its about the same as the voodoo. How do think the K-56 would be in my build as it is now compared to the MP cam I have now ?? Would it be worth it to put the K-56 in   Or maybe I should wait and do a cam swap when I have the funds to do the heads, these are the things going on in my head   Alan

The k56 would definately clean up the idle and increase vacuum. It will make a lot more torque down low and through the midrange. Top end power would be similar to what you have now, but it would be much more pleasant to drive around in. This type of upgrade will fall into the drivability and low to mid speed improvement category as opposed to the "big HP" improvement you might be looking for.

I'm not a fan of the MP cams so if it were mine...i'd be doing it. I'm also trying to convince a buddy with the same cam to make the switch in his 426W 64 Polara street car. 


Ron

[69chargerR/T]

Ron, thanks very much for your help and your time to give me this info The engle K-56 sounds like it will be a good cam and perform better than the MP cam I have now, and the lift should be ok.  Like I said I was all set to get the voodoo 60303 but the .513 exh. lift sounds like it will be close to the guides and kind of worrys me. What valve springs should I run with the K-56, should I get springs from engle or just get some springs from summit. The springs I have now are single with a damper inside, they were on the car when I got it so I don't know what they are they are probably MP springs but I don't know witch ones they are.  Again thanks for your help   Now I just have to decide if I want to make the swap or leave it alone   From what your saying it sounds like it would be worth while   More low and mid torque power sounds good for a street cruiser   Alan

[firefighter3931]

Ron, thanks very much for your help and your time to give me this info The engle K-56 sounds like it will be a good cam and perform better than the MP cam I have now, and the lift should be ok.  Like I said I was all set to get the voodoo 60303 but the .513 exh. lift sounds like it will be close to the guides and kind of worrys me. What valve springs should I run with the K-56, should I get springs from engle or just get some springs from summit. The springs I have now are single with a damper inside, they were on the car when I got it so I don't know what they are they are probably MP springs but I don't know witch ones they are.  Again thanks for your help   Now I just have to decide if I want to make the swap or leave it alone   From what your saying it sounds like it would be worth while   More low and mid torque power sounds good for a street cruiser   Alan

Alan, the springs from Engle or the Comp Cams #911 would work fine with the K56. I would swap the cam out...change is good 


Ron

[oldkimmer]

...........U never mentioned where ur piston is at  [ie]   flush with top of block, lower or higher, by how much, how deep of valve notches, if any, also it matters if ur cam is straight up or advanced , or retarded, if u dont check the centerline u will never know,even ur piston height, just assuming is ridiculous, cover all the bases................kim....