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Why do people drool over an HEMI engine? (or 'abuse' the HEMI)

Started by CB, March 09, 2009, 06:06:13 PM

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Brock Samson

#25
March 09, 2009, 08:21:16 PM
 :scratchchin: why are you even asking this question?.  :shruggy:
lose your way to the prius forum?..

 
http://priuschat.com/?s=b641268f29b9d61d218be77be4f40c85

Foreman72

#26
March 09, 2009, 08:22:47 PM
i think if i were to get a hemi car it would be based on rarity...power and the fact that its a hemi yeah...but i mean...not to many hemi cudas or what-have-you out there u kno...the rarity is what attracts me... :Twocents:
Eric "Foreman"

Previous: 1972 Dodge Charger
Current: 2002 Volvo S60

"The steps of a man are ordered by the LORD, and He delights in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; For the LORD upholds him with His hand.
=Psalm 37:23-24=
"But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven..."
=Matthew 6:19-21=
:pat

Dodge Don

#28
March 09, 2009, 08:52:51 PM
Quote from: maxwellwedge on March 09, 2009, 07:26:47 PM
Dodge Don - While it is true that a good six-pack could put a spanking on a Hemi back in the day, in most cases the Hemi was owned by some rich kid with no tuning prowess.

No argument there.I was running a pretty fast Duster 340 and did pretty well but a few of the big blocks were untouchable. Back then the six pack cars seemed to be run by real greasemonkey types (that is a compliment). The nice looking Hemi cars usually were duds but the hemi cars that were "not so pretty" usually were mean mothers.

There was an orange Duster with a 440 that was the baddest car on the streets where I was. Thing didn't look all that pretty but was scary fast.

Those were the days. We were stupid.  :slap:


maxwellwedge

#29
March 09, 2009, 08:59:11 PM
Quote from: Dodge Don on March 09, 2009, 08:52:51 PM
Quote from: maxwellwedge on March 09, 2009, 07:26:47 PM
Dodge Don - While it is true that a good six-pack could put a spanking on a Hemi back in the day, in most cases the Hemi was owned by some rich kid with no tuning prowess.

No argument there.I was running a pretty fast Duster 340 and did pretty well but a few of the big blocks were untouchable. Back then the six pack cars seemed to be run by real greasemonkey types (that is a compliment). The nice looking Hemi cars usually were duds but the hemi cars that were "not so pretty" usually were mean mothers.

There was an orange Duster with a 440 that was the baddest car on the streets where I was. Thing didn't look all that pretty but was scary fast.

Those were the days. We were stupid.  :slap:





Yup - Stupid is right....Lucky to be alive to tell :cheers:

Foreman72

#31
March 09, 2009, 09:08:40 PM
Eric "Foreman"

Previous: 1972 Dodge Charger
Current: 2002 Volvo S60

"The steps of a man are ordered by the LORD, and He delights in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; For the LORD upholds him with His hand.
=Psalm 37:23-24=
"But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven..."
=Matthew 6:19-21=
:pat

Rolling_Thunder

#32
March 09, 2009, 11:34:30 PM
i  honestly would take a 440 or a 440+6 before a Hemi...   I've restored and driven them all and Hemi's are way tempermental...   not worth it IMO     :shruggy:
1968 Dodge Charger - 6.1L Hemi / 6-speed / 3.55 Sure Grip

2013 Dodge Challenger R/T - 5.7L Hemi / 6-speed / 3.73 Limited Slip

1964 Dodge Polara 500 - 440 / 4-speed / 3.91 Sure Grip

1973 Dodge Challenger Rallye - 340 / A-518 / 3.23 Sure Grip

TheGhost

#33
March 10, 2009, 12:02:48 AM
For the older guys, it's because it is the engine they couldn't get when they were new, unless they were lucky and/or had alot of extra cash sitting around.  It's the memories of that neighborhood HEMI car, terrorizing the local streets.

For us younger guys, it's the legend.  It's the stories our dads or uncles told us about the HEMI cars back in the day.  It's seeing those HEMI cars on TV, or at car shows.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.  Especially if they have access to the internet.

mopar_nut_440_6

#34
March 10, 2009, 12:12:13 AM
Quote from: maxwellwedge on March 09, 2009, 08:59:11 PM
Quote from: Dodge Don on March 09, 2009, 08:52:51 PM
Quote from: maxwellwedge on March 09, 2009, 07:26:47 PM
Dodge Don - While it is true that a good six-pack could put a spanking on a Hemi back in the day, in most cases the Hemi was owned by some rich kid with no tuning prowess.

No argument there.I was running a pretty fast Duster 340 and did pretty well but a few of the big blocks were untouchable. Back then the six pack cars seemed to be run by real greasemonkey types (that is a compliment). The nice looking Hemi cars usually were duds but the hemi cars that were "not so pretty" usually were mean mothers.

There was an orange Duster with a 440 that was the baddest car on the streets where I was. Thing didn't look all that pretty but was scary fast.

Those were the days. We were stupid.  :slap:





Yup - Stupid is right....Lucky to be alive to tell :cheers:

I agree, I should not have lived past 18. I had a 68 Charger with a 360 and 2.76 gears. It was only a 16 second car on the drag strip but did 145 mph and I did it everyday! I look back now and think how stupid that was on bias ply tires to boot.

On another note I raced for many years with a group of die hard Mopar guys and one ran a original 70 Cuda with a Hemi. It was a daily driven street car and ran in the 10.50 - 10.80 range. I can honestly say that was an awesome ride. He took my mother for a ride once and ran a 10.78. She was thrilled. Now, he also had three hemi's and swapped them regularly as he was always looking for more and they broke frequently. Bear in mind this car was heavily abused on the strip and street but the seat of the pants feeling was incredible. To me that is what I think about when I think of a hemi. That and lots of wrenching.

He also owned a 70 Roadrunner 440-6 pack car (I own it now and you can check it out on my CarDomain profile. Same name as here). One weekend he decided to slap  a bunch of old used parts together which were laying around and built a 440 6 pack. Nothing major but a big cam and some head work, the thing sounded like a bucket of bolts it was so loose. Drove it 450 miles to the drag strip with 4.56 gears and 4 speed, beating it all of the way. Raced it for the weekend and ran high 11's. Hopped in and drove it back home. They say it hardly saw under 7000 rpm on the way back and I can honestly say I know it would not have with the 4.56 gears as they broke everything . It almost made it home before it broke a rod 50 miles from home. I think that to me attests to the strength of the 440. Just thought I would share that story as it was always a good one.

In short the hemi engine can be awesome but cost a lot and need a lot more wrenching than a 440 with equal power. This is just my opinion based on many years of racing with/against them and with very competent rednecks (I may fit into this category, at least the redneck part) pulling the wrenches. Still, if I had the choice of a hemi in my Charger or a 440 I would likely put in a hemi as I love the look when you pop the hood and have never owned one!

Cheers,

james
1968 Charger R/T 440 
2004 Dodge Ram 2500 680 HP Cummins with attitude

CB

#35
March 10, 2009, 01:32:01 AM
Quote from: Brock Samson on March 09, 2009, 08:21:16 PM
:scratchchin: why are you even asking this question?.  :shruggy:
lose your way to the prius forum?..

 
http://priuschat.com/?s=b641268f29b9d61d218be77be4f40c85


:shruggy: I am just learning a little about the Hemi and how people look at this engine.
Sorry (heu, why am I sorry?  :slap: ) that I wanted to read peoples opinion/thought/input on this matter....
CB
1968 Dodge Coronet 500

TheGhost

#36
March 10, 2009, 01:34:48 AM
Don't mind brock, he's just a crotchety old man. :nana:
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.  Especially if they have access to the internet.

Mike DC

#37
March 10, 2009, 03:12:38 AM
   
The 426 Hemi just had everything going for it to become legendary:


--  a detuned race engine rather than a street engine to start with.  Basically a better design than the next guy.

--  solid cam gave it a unique sound compared to most other street motors.

--  the most powerful hot motor at the time, set TONS of records that sometimes lasted for decades to come

--  the factory #s underrated it.  (it wasn't really THAT powerful, but an underrated unknown real number makes for a better legend than an accurate power rating.)

--  exclusive enough to make it exotic but not unrelatable.  Rooted in the big block wedge motors.  It was sold in a very small (but also not zero either) number of street cars, etc.

--  most expensive when new, most rare & valued by collectors today

-- has its own one-syllable 4-letter slang name.

1969chargerrtse

#38
March 10, 2009, 05:42:05 AM
When I was a teenager in 1969 I was reading the annual car book about that year cars.  I think Motor trend or Car and Driver?  Under the 1969 Dodge charger road test was the test car that was a 69 charger R/T 426 Hemi.  I scrolled down to the facts and times and there it was, Estimated top speed, 156 mph, Cool.  They described driving it  something like this,  when accelerating down the road and applying the gas it heads down the road like  bomber fighter plan with a roar and rumble, etc......  I never forgot that, that was Hemi cool in 69.
Another thought is how the valve covers look like upside down oil pans with spark plugs popping up in the middle of them.  That's way cool over the thin 440 covers.
This car was sold many years ago to somebody in Wisconsin. I now am retired and living in Florida.

Old Moparz

#39
March 10, 2009, 07:29:59 AM
Quote from: CB on March 09, 2009, 06:06:13 PM
Ok, call me a moron or whatever but I don't get it why people would move heaven and earth to get a Hemi in their car.  :shruggy:

I know it has something nostalgic.
Does a Hemi make (much?) more power?
Doesn't it need much more maintenance?
Doesn't it consume more gas?
Why not getting a beefed up/stroker 440? 

Again, sorry for this stupid question, I don't want to upset people, just trying to figure it out...
CB


Who would you rather have your friends see you with, the overweight chic with all the pimples wearing spandex pants in wally-mart, or Angelina Jolie? 
               Bob               



              Going Nowhere In A Hurry

Ghoste

#40
March 10, 2009, 08:23:24 AM
And it isn't just the one all the Mopar guys want.  Ford guys will go to great lengths to talk about the 429 Boss as being a Hemi (it actually shares a similar combustion chamber shape to the current modern Hemi if I'm not mistaken) and will pout a little if you tell them it's really jus a semi-Hemi.  Chevy guys will do the same thing when they rave about the 427 being a semi-Hemi and you tell them it's really just canted valves.  While those may be musclecar semantics at play the point remains that it's the engine they wanted.  They wanted to own it, they wanted to beat it.  Right or wrong its status as a performance engine has become iconic and its the only engine to have it's own class in the NHRA.  NASCAR banned it and the brand X guys will scream with joy when they have a victory over it.  It's the win they can't wait to wave in your face.  They were/are a lot of money and take skill and dedication to make run properly; except for the local rich kid it is the engine that was only purchased by the truly rabid hardcore types.  Fast Mopar unknowns were always rumored to be Hemi's although very few of them were.
I'm not really sure what you mean by "abuse" though CB?
Also, Don wasn't Ray Barton originally from around your way? (same experience here btw, there was one good running Hemi local to me and then a couple that just hid.  There was also one 440-6 in a Challenger though that didn't run very good but that is different story and as we know out of character for a Six Pack.)

Nacho-RT74

#41
March 10, 2009, 08:45:57 AM
as I told... stock over stock, Hemi looks to be the powerfull engine ever, right ?

so you say why not get a 440 and stroke it ?, well if you compare an stroked 440 and an stroked hemi, wouldn't youy get same results ? still more power on an Hemi. Is not fair to compare an stroked 440 with a stock hemi... beside the money factor. But Money factor is just about the begining price ( the stock engine ) not the engine built. Hemi rebuilt/stroke could be a little bit expensive than same job on a 440, but the main diff is on get the engine itself.

Hemi is expensive ? yeah, but you pay for what you want and get.

anyway, I think that they are overpriced too and is true that with less money you can get a similar power. But is about technology, sound, cool factor.

Only stuff that I don't like about Hemis is you hardly can try to put an A/C on it.

Aren't all Dragsters Hemi engine powered ?
Venezuelan RT 74 400 4bbl, 727, 8.75 3.23 open. Now stroked with 440 crank and 3.55 SG. Here is the History and how is actually: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,7603.0/all.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,25060.0.html

RD

#42
March 10, 2009, 08:49:34 AM
i guess i am different... i wouldnt turn down a hemi, but i would sell it to finance my wedge blocks.  I know hemi's make power, but so do all the other engines if built right.  I dont need a race engine in street form (i.e. hemi) when I have a 440.  Its simply the math that shows which route is best, and the hemi is more conversation piece than $$$ per hp efficient.

For the price I could buy a regular 425hp 426 hemi, I could build a Indy headed 440, stroked, roller cam, blueprinted block; purchased headers, a 1050 carb, and still had enough left over to put money into my car to handle the newly acquired hp that would make said hemi de-evolve into a mini-pachyderm.

Yeah the guy next to me can say he has a hemi, big whoop.  All show and no go, makes for a dull day.

remember, primer makes the car go faster. :D
67 Plymouth Barracuda, 69 Plymouth Barracuda, 73 Charger SE, 75 D100, 80 Sno-Commander

maxwellwedge

#43
March 10, 2009, 08:50:57 AM
Quote from: Ghoste on March 10, 2009, 08:23:24 AM
And it isn't just the one all the Mopar guys want.  Ford guys will go to great lengths to talk about the 429 Boss as being a Hemi (it actually shares a similar combustion chamber shape to the current modern Hemi if I'm not mistaken) and will pout a little if you tell them it's really jus a semi-Hemi.  Chevy guys will do the same thing when they rave about the 427 being a semi-Hemi and you tell them it's really just canted valves.  While those may be musclecar semantics at play the point remains that it's the engine they wanted.  They wanted to own it, they wanted to beat it.  Right or wrong its status as a performance engine has become iconic and its the only engine to have it's own class in the NHRA.  NASCAR banned it and the brand X guys will scream with joy when they have a victory over it.  It's the win they can't wait to wave in your face.  They were/are a lot of money and take skill and dedication to make run properly; except for the local rich kid it is the engine that was only purchased by the truly rabid hardcore types.  Fast Mopar unknowns were always rumored to be Hemi's although very few of them were.
I'm not really sure what you mean by "abuse" though CB?
Also, Don wasn't Ray Barton originally from around your way? (same experience here btw, there was one good running Hemi local to me and then a couple that just hid.  There was also one 440-6 in a Challenger though that didn't run very good but that is different story and as we know out of character for a Six Pack.)

Close Ghoste - Barton came from Quebec

RD

#44
March 10, 2009, 08:51:07 AM
Quote from: Nacho-RT74 on March 10, 2009, 08:45:57 AM
...Aren't all Dragsters Hemi engine powered ?

true, but 99.9% of the people out there dont own dragsters
67 Plymouth Barracuda, 69 Plymouth Barracuda, 73 Charger SE, 75 D100, 80 Sno-Commander

Ghoste

#45
March 10, 2009, 08:55:06 AM
Quebec isn't close  :lol:, I thought he was from somewhere in the GTA like Richmond Hills or something.
Maybe I'm getting confused with Lee Ellison from Orangeville (yes, I know that is looooong way from the GTA) but then again I don't think Lee ever got his Hemi car on the road did he?

Khyron

#46
March 10, 2009, 09:02:49 AM
Quote from: Old Moparz on March 10, 2009, 07:29:59 AM
Who would you rather have your friends see you with, the overweight chic with all the pimples wearing spandex pants in wally-mart, or Angelina Jolie? 

Did you just call my engine a fat chick with pimples? :lol:

Personally, If it was a stock vers stock. I understand the desire for the 426 hemi. When I see some at a show. I always stop and admire the old girl for what she is...


However...


I stand behind my Built 440. Though the Hemi has the history and nostalgia going for it, it has major costs going against it. For the price of building up a 426, I could build 2 440s to hand it it's butt.

I say this will all respect to the Hemi. But I'm a budget racer, and that dictates that I stand behind my $300 can still get a good block from a junkyard motor :)

*EDIT* BTW: Splining a 440 to get 4 bolt mains isn't too expensive ;)


Before reading my posts please understand me by clicking
HERE, HERE, AND HERE.

Ghoste

#47
March 10, 2009, 09:07:12 AM
And that hasn't changed since they were new.

firefighter3931

#48
March 10, 2009, 09:16:02 AM
Quote from: Mefirst on March 09, 2009, 07:38:33 PM
I have had both engines in my Charger. The difference (other than looks) is the different character/personality of the engines. The 440 is a more "gentle" engine, the power curve is progressive, even if it has a truck load of horsepower.. The Hemi on the other hand is kinda like a Turbo engine, first nothing happens, the rews go up, then suddenly it starts to pull like a SOB..


Tom, that really isn't a fair comparison to make. Your 440 was a mild "pump gas" build that was running a flat tappet cam and poorly assembled which lead to it's early demise. Not your fault (you didn't build the shortblock) but it was not a well built engine or what would be considered a "full-on" engine. I can't remember the details on your heads but i don't think they were ported either.  :scratchchin:

The new Hemi engine you're running is a former race build with good aluminum heads, 13:1 compression and an large, agressive roller cam.  :2thumbs:

Comparing these two engines would be like comparing apples and oranges.  ;)


As for the Hemi vs Wedge debate ;  as previously mentioned the street hemi is basicly a detuned race engine. The large port heads made excellent power up top and that is why the cars that ran them pulled so hard at the end of the 1/4. Wedge engines back in the day were primarily torque monsters and that's why they functioned well on the street in stoplight to stoplight battles.

Today, it's a whole new ballgame with a large assortment of aftermarket cylinder head castings available and that has levelled the playing field, substantially. With a little homework and proper planning a wedge can make some descent power.   :cheers:

My 446 is nothing special ; stock crank, stock rods, TRW replacement pistons, single 4bbl.... but a custom cam and a set of ported heads. That little .030 over 440 outpowers the 472 stroker "crate hemi" that Mopar Performance sells.


Don't get me wrong....i like the look of a Hemi under the hood, but i am not mesmerized by past glory.



Ron
68 Charger R/T "Black Pig" Street/Strip bruiser, 70 Charger R/T 440-6bbl Cruiser. Firecore ignition  authorized dealer ; contact me with your needs

maxwellwedge

#49
March 10, 2009, 09:37:56 AM
Quote from: Ghoste on March 10, 2009, 08:55:06 AM
Quebec isn't close  :lol:, I thought he was from somewhere in the GTA like Richmond Hills or something.
Maybe I'm getting confused with Lee Ellison from Orangeville (yes, I know that is looooong way from the GTA) but then again I don't think Lee ever got his Hemi car on the road did he?

Sorry - Ray was in Thornhill before moving to Quebec.

Good old Lee....I don't think he did get it back on the road.
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