Belgian Stroker

[Belgium R/T -68]

Time to start with the heart of my Chargerproject, the strokerbuild. I've already had some initial contacts with Ron (Thanks  )
concerning the basics but now  it's time to start building. Here is the thought set up:

440 -68 block 0,040 oversize
440source 440=>500 strokerkit #5094
Flat top pistons with reliefs 10.9 comp with .039" headgasket
Edelbroeck RPM 84cc heads
Edelbroeck performer RPM intake manifold
Engle K60 112° lobecenter camshaft
Proform 850 race carburator
MP electronic ignition with orange or chromebox
Firecore plugwires
Carter HP fuelpump
Alu waterpump + housing
Serpentine belt setup
TTI 1 7/8 headers connected to TTI 2,5" x-pipe system
2500 stall converter
3.55 gears
26" radiator, used the conversion plate to change from the stock 22". Good thing

Open issues:

Oilpan, have a 5qt Milodon
Rockerassembly, have 2 setup of 440source roller rockers but know about fellow members problems. Also a frequent issue on other forums.
Mufflers, have the ones in the TTI package and a pair of Flowmaster 40 series.

I hope to be able to get it to the dyno end of Januari or beginning February, need to go to neighbour country The Netherlands!
Here is the link to the carproject.


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,46508.0.html

[firefighter3931]

That is a nice build....it will be a blast to drive. 

The one upgrade i would make is a 6qt Hemi reproduction pan and MP 4.15 stroker windage tray. 

On the mufflers i would opt for the supplied mufflers with the TTI exhaust kit which should be a Dynomax product. 




Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

Ron,
Since my addiction with these cars is spending time wrenching in the garage I will propably test both mufflers and via youtube
let all of you wote in a poll.

Bought 440source windagetray #127-1002 together with the kit, hope it's OK.

[firefighter3931]

Bought 440source windagetray #127-1002 together with the kit, hope it's OK.

Not sure how that tray will fit with the repro hemi pan...you'll have to try it and see. 

The nice thing about the hemi pan is that it doesn't hang down below the k-frame ! 



Ron

[Chatt69chgr]

Will that combination run on pump gas?  With the piston .018 in the hole and with the .039 head gasket, you will end up with .057 piston to head clearance.  I recall reading that you lose the effects of quench at about 60 thousands clearance.  Wouldn't it be better to have more dish and deck the block to get down to around 45 thousands piston to head clearance to achieve quench thereby reducing detonation and allowing use of pump gas?  Of course, I have ignored whether proper choice of the cam will achieve a lower dynamic compression ratio.  Might have to special order the piston to get more cc dish.  I think the 440 Source pistons are either Ross or Keith Black pieces.  They told me once but I forgot what they said. Nothing wrong with them.  They could tell you if the dish could be increased or if they have another flattop part number that has more dish.

Otherwise, this build seems to follow all the recommendations for just about every part that I have seen for the past year reading the board. 

Others offer the stroker kits too.  I think Mancini has one that uses Diamond pistons and eagle crank and rods.  Not sure of the cost

What kind of rockers will be used?  I think the K60 is a hydraulic cam.

[Belgium R/T -68]

I bought the strokerkit already so I'm kind of stucked with it regarding compression, I hope it will work out.

Concerning rockerassembly for the K60 I will go for stock rockers, I don't race, just ocassional cruising.

[Chatt69chgr]

Calling Ron:

Do you think Belgium R/T 68's stroker will run OK on 93 octane pump gas?

[firefighter3931]

Calling Ron:

Do you think Belgium R/T 68's stroker will run OK on 93 octane pump gas?

We're allready on top of it Chatt 

Per and I have been discussing this through PM's and there are a couple of options to reduce the static compression into the 10.5:1 range which is much safer. It's unfortunate that this kit was purchased beforehand but it is managable with a few "tweaks". 



Ron

[Chatt69chgr]

Could you post what solutions you come up with.  I'am storing this type info away for a possible future stroker build.

[firefighter3931]

Will do ! 

The easy way to dial in a 4.15 stroke build is to order a 12cc dish piston and use the 84cc closed chamber head and .040 head gasket....that gives you a nice 10.5:1 static comp ratio @ zero deck. 


Ron

[kingjoop]

in Holland (next to Beglium) we have pumpgas @ 100 octane 

hope to see your project on a meeting nearby some day  Happy building!

[Belgium R/T -68]

Will do ! 

The easy way to dial in a 4.15 stroke build is to order a 12cc dish piston and use the 84cc closed chamber head and .040 head gasket....that gives you a nice 10.5:1 static comp ratio @ zero deck. 


Ron

Ron,
Could you find a link for such a piston?

[firefighter3931]

Will do ! 

The easy way to dial in a 4.15 stroke build is to order a 12cc dish piston and use the 84cc closed chamber head and .040 head gasket....that gives you a nice 10.5:1 static comp ratio @ zero deck. 


Ron

Ron,
Could you find a link for such a piston?

Per, Diamond Racing carries such a piston. Here is a link to a Large PDF file which is their entire online catolog. Check out the BB mopar street/strip dish pistons :

http://www.diamondracing.net/Diamond2008.pdf


#52415 is a 13cc dish with .990 pins at .030 overbore
#52416 is a 13cc dish with (stock) 1.094 pins at .030 overbore
#52417 is a 13cc dish with .990 pins at .040 overbore

What is the pinsize on your 440 source rods ?



Ron


Ps. Did Santa arrive yet ? 

[Belgium R/T -68]

No Ron, the Belgium customs does everything they can to not have to clear your shipments. Once  a package from
Mancini was sitting there 2 weeks and when I called they asked for a copy of the invoice, when I recieved the parcel the original
invoice was sitting ON the package.

Pistonpin is .990" and bore is .040"

I take a look at the file when the wife has gone to bed, need to score some good points tonight.

Thanks  //Per

52417 gives 10.1, not to little?

[firefighter3931]

No Ron, the Belgium customs does everything they can to not have to clear your shipments. Once  a package from
Mancini was sitting there 2 weeks and when I called they asked for a copy of the invoice, when I recieved the parcel the original
invoice was sitting ON the package.

Those a-holes !  The package arrived at BELGIUM CUSTOMS on the 19th. Scrooge must be working there ! 

Pistonpin is .990" and bore is .040"

I take a look at the file when the wife has gone to bed, need to score some good points tonight.

Thanks  //Per

52417 gives 10.1, not to little?

The 52417 is your piston ! If you read the footnotes on the Diamond website that comp ratio is for a deckheight of -.017 inches. When you have the block machined the decks should be squared up and milled to achieve a zero deck measurement. Once this is done the resulting ratio works out to 10.5:1 with an 84cc chamber and .040 head gasket. Perrrrrfect for Belgium pump gas ! 


Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

Ron,
If I got this right right: After a potential purchase of those pistons I assemble the rotating assembly to messure the deckheight
and then take it back to the machineshop for milling? My block is already bored.

If the block is milled does the intake manifold has to be done also to compensate for the height difference?

Finally, who carries those pistons? Didn't saw any price in the catalog but Mancini has that brand and they are not for free.

[firefighter3931]

Ron,
If I got this right right: After a potential purchase of those pistons I assemble the rotating assembly to messure the deckheight
and then take it back to the machineshop for milling? My block is already bored.

Yes, that would be the correct procedure.....mock up the block and assuming the crank indexing is consistent on all cylinders it's just a matter of cutting and squaring the decks. 

If the block is milled does the intake manifold has to be done also to compensate for the height difference?

The intake manifold alignment will be fine....no worries 

Finally, who carries those pistons? Didn't saw any price in the catalog but Mancini has that brand and they are not for free.

Mancini is a Diamond dealer so you can get the pistons from them or deal with Diamond directly. I have a set of the #52416 slugs for a future street stroker build and they are very nice. Diamond is a superior product ! 



Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

Ron,
I'm considering selling my strokerkit and buy one from Mancini. They have a 493 kit with the Diamond pistons, will propably be enough
for my needs. I will come out much cheaper then buying pistons alone.

I had it coming over in the Challenger so it didn't cost me any shipping so getting the money back here in Europe shouldn't be a problem.

What's your thoughts?

[firefighter3931]

The Mancini kit looks good....just make sure that the pistons have a 12-13cc dish....and remember you need a 4.36 bore sized piston.  Their price is competitive. 

Diamond also makes a 24cc dish 493 piston and you don't want that one. 

Selling your kit will be more cost effective because you will recover the cost of the pistons as opposed to having them sit on the shelf while replacing them with the Diamonds. 



Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

Just my thought Ron, those pistons I have will never be useful. I will call them when they are open again after the holidays
and check how a kit could look like before I order.

Merry Christmas to all of you anyway!

BTW, anybody else here running a 493 kit?

[kingjoop]

is that your add on the dutch mopar forum? 

i have a 493 stroker, from eagle

[BigBlockSam]

 

[Belgium R/T -68]

is that your add on the dutch mopar forum? 

i have a 493 stroker, from eagle

Yes KJ, It's for sale in Sweden aswell, being a Viking myself.

Are you happy with your stroker and what comp do you have?

[Chatt69chgr]

Very informative thread and just the type of info I would need for a future stroker build. 

Now-----if you were looking for, say, a 6500 rpm max really fun street car using a 727, what would be a good choice for a cam?  And how many cfm would one be looking for in a carb(s).  I assume dual plane for the intake and headers for the exhaust.

[Belgium R/T -68]

I took up on one of Rons other suggestion concerning my compression so I will get my Heads done so they messure 88cc instead
of the 84cc I have now. Now I have to learn how to messure the crankshaft with plastigauge, in the rebuildbooks they make it easy,
-"if not within tolerance, fix it". Easy said.