Chrysler halting production.

[68charger383]

Our local dealership had the best ever month of November in the history of the company and December was starting off very good. I dont thnk Chrysler and Ford are in bad shape. GM is in really bad trouble.


Todd

 Same holds true for the dealerships around here and they are projecting increase in sales!  Maybe some geographical pockets haven't been hit yet??

That's because their giving them away right now so you have some people buying up deals. FORD has their employee pricing. Hell a dealer near me is selling new Mustang GTs for $18,988.

I live in CA and you usually see new cars on a reglar basis since people tend to only keep cars for a few years and then replace with new. On my normal 45 mile one way drive into work I usually only see one new car when I used to see about 10. (CA has car dealership plate on car until the CA ones are sent in about 3-4 weeks. So they're real easy to spot.) That shows me the dealers are not selling cars at all!

[Brock Samson]

  I drove by the local auto dealerships this past Monday, and three major GM dealerships had closed... Chevrolet/Pontiac/Buick/GMC/Hummer and a Caddy, also a San Francisco Chrysler dealer ship at 16th street, disappeared overnight...
When i checked out the Chrysler dealerships to see the new Chally a couple Mos. back it was deserted, i talked at length with the salesman (one who I respect BTW) and he said sales were off 80% only the wealthy Silicon Valley (those are left coast folks BTW) were in buying or looking to buy Challys... which they couldn't get...
the State of California froze all construction projects yesterday the report said that will lead to 100,000 layoffs...
The chickens have come home to roost...

[chargerjy9]

Let's not "left coast" bash us on this issue, Detroit did it to themselves. Besides that, aren't those idiot senators Republicans? 

here we go again, "Detroit did not just "do it to themselves". this attitude seems to be the same bashing heard countrywide. YES, they may have made some bad choices thru the years,but this crisis has been brought about by factors out of their control namely the credit crunch, blame can be passed around for this one. I have been employed in the industry for nearly 40 years, I have seen what goes on first hand. there are so many mis perceptions about us, i.e. junk cars, overpaid workers, UAW, cushy jobs, etc that what I detect is a seeming jealosy of what the car companies have provided to build up the middle class lifestyle that maybe some other industries haven't kept up with. THE CAR COMPANIES WERE THERE in defense of this country during WWII. THE CAR COMPANIES WERE THERE during many natural disasters that hit the South (Katrina) check it out see how much was contributed by foriegn car companies.
YES those idiot southern senators are republicans who it seems forgot that the war is over, what hypocrits!  Note, Michigan is a democratic state. the last time I voted democratic was for George McGovern. however because of their sheninigans and also the seeming disinterest of the current administration in DC.ny ideals may have been changed.

[Charger_Fan]

I agree, the days of "American cars automatically being a bad product" are at least a decade old. Their current cars are much more improved than what they were making in the 80's/90's.

As bleak as the future of our auto industry seems to be, I still don't think they should be bailed out...nor should the Bush admistration throw them a few billion to tide them over. Wall Street should have NEVER been bailed out, either. The chips should fall where they may & life will resume from there...wherever "there" is.
The greedy corporate bastiges (including politicans) that got us here should be serving jail time right now & the rest of us should learn from their mistakes & vow to never get into this predicament again.

IMO, the time for the UAW is through, they served their original purpose, and now they are just a huge ball & chain around the ankle of the auto industry. If the foreign guys can come here & make cars without the need for UAW, then we can too! In this age, there's enough laws on the books to protect auto employees that weren't there in the old days...that's been fixed, we don't need the UAW anymore.

I will say that if (& when) the auto companies fold up, it will suck big time, but we'll survive. I know that there's enough smart people in there that know how to do the auto manufacturing job "right", that within a short amount of time, they could begin a fresh new PROFITABLE American car company...without the UAW there to pull them down.
There's also tons of governmental regulations that are another ball & chain, but I don't have a good answer for a fix on that one.

[Back N Black]

If a Company is not viable, let it fold. We can't be bailing these guys out every 6 months.

[nh_mopar_fan]

There's a big hole in the bottom of the bucket. Pouring more cash into it isn't going to fix a thing.

Those senators that killed the bailout are absolutely correct. Until the big 3 change the fundamentals, it's a losing proposition.

There's talk about an orderly backruptcy today. Finally. That's the correct route to take out of this mess.

[Mike DC]

Detriot is better than they were 10-20 years ago but it's not enough.  Honda & Toyota still have a small quality lead in most cases and it seems to widen as things get higher up in mileage. 

Let's not all start rattling off a list of individual examples as if that proves one way or the other.  The overall trend is what matters, and Japan still had a clear quality lead up until just very recently. 

(And not everyone is buying new cars, either.  "Very recently" means a lot of people should logically still be buying used Jap cars for years to come.  And as long as that's the case, the resale value of the Japanese cars will stay higher, which helps them seem like better values when brand new even if Detriot's quality really was equal on paper . . . the point is that Detroit pulling even in the quality race 3 or 7 years ago isn't enough to kill the issue for a long time yet.)



If Detriot ever wants to lose their bad quality image then they need to spend at least a decade making BETTER cars than the Japs.  That's the only thing that will sway the public.  It's a harsh situation but that's how it is.

[runningman]

I don't know, would someone purchase a vehicle from a company that is going through bankruptcy because it is labeled as "orderly"?  Chrysler has been going through major restructuring for the last 10 years or so.  We initially had less than half of the people producing engines at the 3.7 plant than we did at Mound Road, it is now probably a quarter or so.  We have implemented Smart and Lean manufacturing as well as TPM, which were initially brought the attention of the Big 3 in the early 80's but they deemed these programs to not be value added.  Toyota's U.S. based workers make wages that are comparable to those of the Big 3 minus the legacy costs.  It appears that the real issue is with the retirees; the recent numbers I had read stated that there were roughly a million retirees or surviving spouses collecting retirement and health care benefits from the Big 3 compared to 270,000 active employees.  I am not sure what the answer is for that, do they just file bankruptcy and let the government take over these costs?

[dodgecharger-fan]

The problem with letting a company as large as any of the big 3 fold is that it affects so much more than that company and its employees.

If you think about the suppliers to the automakers, they are, in many case smaller companies that live and die by the orders from the automakers. The automakers go lean (or away) and the suppliers suffer - and there's no bailout strategy for the little guys.

For every one job at an automaker, there are as many as 8 other jobs tied to it: suppliers, catering (in the lunch rooms), maintenance (my neighbour is an electrician at the Ford plant - he's fine as long as the building stays open), workers in the community where the autoworkers live. The list goes on.

It's all a house of cards and has less to do with the pay cheques of the execs at the auto manufacturers. They should all be working for a dollar a year right now.

Heck, I don't work in the auto industry and I'm worried. I live in a GM town. If they were to go under, this place would be pretty bleak - and it's already bad enough. If all of the GM workers move away, the tax base will be affected in a great way. that'll impact the city's ability to deliver services to the people that stay behind. It's bad enough if the GM plants were to stop paying their taxes - if it can come to that.

We've already got major manufacturing facilities that closed up shop and no one else was able to move in to the plants with a different industry. Large plants are sitting empty and not contributing to the tax base. the best plan we have is to go after the really old buildings and convert them into housing - they call brownscaping. But some of the "non-heritage" buildings can't be converted and no one would want to convert them anyway.

[dodgecharger-fan]

I don't know, would someone purchase a vehicle from a company that is going through bankruptcy because it is labeled as "orderly"? 

Sure. I would. I don't see a big problem with it. Even if the company dries up and blows away, it doesn't mean the end of all of their cars. There will still be enough parts out there to keep them going for a reasonable amount of time. I would either baby the car and hoard parts or I'd drive it into the ground and get my money's worth then crush it. It would just depend on the car itself and how much I really liked it.

[runningman]

I guess the worry would be the warranty coverage.  I would assume that this would cease to exist if the company were to go out of business.

[chargerjy9]

since when have the auto companies been "bailed out" every 6 months? As I recall, Chrysler asked for a "loan" in 1979, which was repaid 18 months later with 30 % interest.  We all sacrificed then as we are now.I was there, I lived it. I was just retired as a result of this latest meltdown. They are looking for a LOAN not a BAILOUT when are people going to get it. If this country loses it's manufacturing base who is going to build tanks and guns the next time they are needed, Kia? in Alabama?

[Ghoste]

It wasn't even a loan in 79 it was a loan guarantee.  Chrysler still had to borrow the money from the bank all the feds did was promise to pay the banks if Chrysler defaulted. 

[RallyeMike]

here we go again, "Detroit did not just "do it to themselves". this attitude seems to be the same bashing heard countrywide.

You have to look no further than Consumer Reports to find what actual owners think of their vehicles. The public has spoken, and the American cars do not fair well, especially Chrysler. The bashing seems to be country-wide, because it IS country-wide. It comes from everyday Americans who are unsatisfied with the (comparative) junk that comes from the big 3, and they are reporting the real results of their bad experiences to this data base. All the flag waving in the world isn't going to change it.

As much as it pains me to see the big 3 bailed out with MY money, considering what a mess that mostly they have made, I do agree that that this country needs to be cautious about losing it's manufacturing base. It could most certainly be a serious security threat as well as an economic one. One way or another, I don't think Washington is going to let them all implode.

[WINGR]

I agree with chargerjy9 and that this problem stems more from the fact of the credit crunch and the huge oil price spike, not to the mention the so-called "Fair Trade Agreement". If you remove these issues the auto companies would not be in this position. We all are aware that the auto companies have made some mistakes, but it is not a perfect world and along with these mistakes they have done alot of good. Especially with their great efforts during war periods, many charitable donations, as well as allowing many people accross this great country the opportunity to provide for their families.

There are alot of people out there that just don't get the picture, if the big three fail the fallout is going to be horrendous, not only for the Detroit area but the U.S. as a whole. I myself do not work for these companies but my livelyhood is connected in some way. My wife's company just laid off a bunch of people including her and due to this recent disaster my job is also in danger. We both have worked hard to provide for our young daughters. As I'm sure many will agree, this uncertainty is not a good feeling when you have a family to care for. Again I must say that this was not just brought on by Detroit themselves, and  there are alot of innocent people suffering for the greed and ridiculous decisions that a handful of people at the top have and are still making. I know they are wanting to knock down the autoworkers wages and maybe they do need some adjusting. But honestly with the credit crunch and the aweful housing market, what are these people supposed to do, just lose there homes?

I am an American and even if a non-American car company did make a better car I am still buying from an American Car company, end of story. Although I don't necessarily believe that to be the case anyway. The company I work for has several Ford's and Chevy/GMC vehicles that are into the 200,000 to 300,000 mile range and still going. It's just like with anything as long as you maintain it properly it should last you quite awhile.

I think the amount of the loans that these companies are asking for is minute in comparison to what the finance agencies have been given. This has to be a top priority and maybe there should even be more set-aside in order to assure that they can remedy the credit problems that the current credit crunch has caused. On top of that they have got to get these financial institutions to loan qualified people or businesses the needed money to buy cars, refinance or purchase a home, finance normal operating capital. As many if us know, due to the credit crunch it is getting harder to collect on monies owed for services provided. Many companies are forced to rely on operational financing to keep things flowing as they work for continued business as well as collections of income.

One last thought, as a country we have to find a way to get back more manufacturing here. If we could slowly bring these items back and have more of a mind set that if we can't get it here, then maybe we don't really need it. I know this cannot be easy but for what is at stake I think that it is well worth the effort, don't you?

WINGR

[bull]

Looks like my Dodge Durango warranty will expire about the same time Dodge expires.

[Ghoste]

Even Toyota is worried about the economic fallout and how it would affect them if the Big 3 go under.

[chargerjy9]

Thank You WINGR

a voice of reason who gets it

[Mike DC]

I think the amount of the loans that these companies are asking for is minute in comparison to what the finance agencies have been given.

I agree. 

Honestly I think what we're looking at is a bit of an unintended smoke screen.  Congress pisses away several trillion of our dollars to banks with little or no accountability, and then they put Detroit through the wringer for a paltry $20-50 billion to make us feel like they're doing their jobs. 

Congress may never have consciously set out to do things this way but it seems to be what is happening. 


-------------------------------------------------------------

There are alot of people out there that just don't get the picture, if the big three fail the fallout is going to be horrendous, not only for the Detroit area but the U.S. as a whole.

Unfortunately I think a lot of people in power get the picture but they just don't care. 

--  If Detroit goes under we're looking at a bunch of proletariat-level jobs lost, and a few bigwigs who probably couldn't end up with less than a few hundred million if they tried.   

--  And the much-vaunted manufacturing base . . .  the US is already commercially outsourcing its current war effort as it is.  This talk about "making our own tanks in time of war" probably sounds archaic in that sense.

So if you're high up in the govt or business world, who (that matters) actually gets hurt here?


-------------------------------------------------

I am an American and even if a non-American car company did make a better car I am still buying from an American Car company, end of story. Although I don't necessarily believe that to be the case anyway. The company I work for has several Ford's and Chevy/GMC vehicles that are into the 200,000 to 300,000 mile range and still going. It's just like with anything as long as you maintain it properly it should last you quite awhile.

Most of America isn't buying their own cars in the first place.  A struggling person can't rely on doing above average maintenance to prolong a car that lived its first 140,000 miles in someone else's hands.  The used market matters just as much as the new one.

And for the same group, sacrificing "a better car" to buy American is usually not about sacrificing a few horsepower or a few extra butt-heaters in the seats for the sake of patriotism.  It would be putting yourself in an unreliable vehicle, and that often means threatening your family with economic collapse if anything unforeseen breaks.  Much of the public's refusal to buy American has a lot to do with economic hardship.

[Mopar2Ya]

GM & Chrysler got the bailout, details are still being worked out.

[Charger_Fan]

I knew they would.
I just hope that this time it won't be business as usual by this time next year. Hopefully this scare will stay in their minds a while & things will get fixed...starting with the stinkin' UAW.




BTW, the approval rate for congress was at 11% last I heard. We need to remember this crap next vote & get some fresh meat in there.

[nh_mopar_fan]

It buys them 3 months.

What's going to change in 3 months?

[Ghoste]

Hopefully everything.

[RallyeMike]

I am an American and even if a non-American car company did make a better car I am still buying from an American Car company, end of story. Although I don't necessarily believe that to be the case anyway. The company I work for has several Ford's and Chevy/GMC vehicles that are into the 200,000 to 300,000 mile range and still going. It's just like with anything as long as you maintain it properly it should last you quite awhile

Wouldnt it be nice if it were that simple?

I probably did more to support American workers and business when I purchased my Honda Civic assembled in a plant in the USA vs. the Dodge Ram I bought, assembled in Mexico. The 07 Honda built by American workers runs like a champ and my 07 Ram built in Mexico spends all it's time at the dealer under warranty repairs and recalls. Considering what it's costing Dodge to continually repair my truck, I'm probably doing Chrysler's bottom line way more harm by buying their crap than not 

[TK73]

Let's not "left coast" bash us on this issue, Detroit did it to themselves. Besides that, aren't those idiot senators Republicans? 

here we go again, "Detroit did not just "do it to themselves". this attitude seems to be the same bashing heard countrywide. YES, they may have made some bad choices thru the years,but this crisis has been brought about by factors out of their control namely the credit crunch, blame can be passed around for this one.

Unfortunately, I neglected to clarify my statement of Detroit doing this to themselves. Of course I understand the current credit crisis.   What Detroit FAILED to do was promptly, and appropriately, respond to the Japanese auto industry encroachment on the American market in the early '70's.  COME ON, why did it take over 20 YEARS to catch up in quality??  Answer: Detroit did not take the threat seriously until 50% of auto sales in the U.S. are foreign built cars. They just kept thinking the crap they built would be consumed. It was, and EXPERIENCE taught Americans to buy quality.

Prior to buying my new car in June I RESEARCHED, RESEARCHED and RESEARCHED new cars.  Chrysler was way out of the question, Chevy didn't impress me... I was left with mostly Japanese cars that fell in my price range.  When it came to sign on the line I had to get something FUN that did not have below average ratings...
I viewed my search, and research, on a scale: reliable to fun, taking into consideration cost.  Reliable, and inexpensive, ALWAYS came back as foreign built.