Is it just me or are there a lot of quality issues cropping up about 440source?

[Ghoste]

I'm only asking because it seems like I've read more than a few threads across a couple of different forums about people having problems.  Am I just noticing it out of proportion?  I hope that's the case because Brandon is a Mopar guy and I know he wants to deliver to the Pentastar community.

[srpntlair1]

Well as many of you have seen my previous post about rear main seal problems, I am not the only one that has experienced it. after a year of messing around with ideas and possible fixes on the crank one of the people at 440 source tech dept stated they had a "bad" run of cranks in early 2007. as far as what that meant I do not understand. But to me, knowing they had a problem and unhappy customers, sometimes you should bite the bullet and warranty something sometimes. Also through all my research of talking to other builders, not mentioning part brand to them but the problem, 8 out of 10 builders would laugh and name 440 source as manufacturer.   just my rant about it     PS Keith in Washington if you reas this, give me a call again, the wife wiped out my email and I lost your # again

[oldschool]

i think it comes down to,you get what you pay for.some parts you just cant skimp on.....just like machine work too,you have to spend the money to have the reliability

[Ghoste]

Do you think the issues with their products seem to be more recent?

[aifilaw]

...just like machine work too,you have to spend the money to have the reliability

Not necessarily true... the vast majority it seems, and I'm speaking as someone who has no experience with 440 source thus far... but from what I've read the vast majority have had no problems, and they built a reputation on being inexpensive... which to me is "about time" since mopar parts vs. chevy or ford parts with the exception of 440 source cost 50% more for the exact same quality.

I have spent big bucks on "quality machine work" to get something half-assed....
To me its all about finding someone who is careful, lots of experience with mopars, knows what they are doing and has a proven track record... after that, I couldn't care less how much it costs.

[Chatt69chgr]

I want to believe that 440 Source does not knowingly ship bad parts.  But it sure appears that when they find out about bad parts from feedback from their customers and they realize that a batch of bad parts went out, they make zero effort to inform folks that have purchased these parts about the problem.  Now you can be sure that they know exactly who bought these items and all it would take would be a post card to that individual to warn them to check this or watch out for that or send that part back in and we will send you a good part.  But they don't do that.  So I am thinking that they are operating on such a tight budget that they simply can't afford to absorb the costs involved in letting folks know.  I don't think it's a good long term way to build up a good business reputation.  But in their defense, many other companies do the same thing.  I've had Ford Motor Company outright lie to me about problems.  And that's not lately.  They did it with my old F100 pickup.  Did it again later with my 94 Tarus.  GE didnt' treat me right on one of their dishwashers.  I won't go into the gory details of these transactions but even Ma Mopar tries to rip people off on the warranty.  So 440 Source is not alone.  Good thing that we have the internet now and more specifically, the Mopar Forums so we can make each other aware of pertinent issues.  These days, it getting much harder to run a business in this fashion.  In fact, companies that keep on that track wind up not being in business.  This truism might be something for 440 Source to keep in mind.   

[Challenger340]

i think it comes down to,you get what you pay for.some parts you just cant skimp on.....just like machine work too,you have to spend the money to have the reliability

Very well said !

[idahogrumpy]

            I'm currently trying to put together a Indy headed 440 source 470, and this thing is really kicking my butt.  Maybe all of the 400 based stroker kits are like this but the rod bearing side clearance on this combination has been a nightmare. I think that in this area the quality could be better.  This is my 1st build of this type and I may not do another, what a pain in the butt!    Kyle
           
   

[John_Kunkel]

Once the negative conversation starts, all you will hear is the negative reports.

Start a thread on problems with any American made product that is sold in the same quantity a 440source and see what happens.

[bull]

It's hard to gauge what "a lot" means exactly. Maybe they've had a string of bad luck and/or maybe it's just a perception. I bought about $400 worth of stuff from them about six months ago and the transaction went well. The water pump I got from them had rolled around in its box and tore the gasket and o-ring and when I told them about it they sent me two new ones without any hassle.

[General_01]

I ordered my stroker kit from them. I had an engine shop put my engine together and dyno it. Everything seemed to go well. They did not tell me that anything was way off. The only thing I was told at the beginning was that I may have to pay to have the knurled end of the crankshaft taken care of because he had found in the past that the knurling was too rough for the rear main seal and he had problems with them leaking until he started doing that. I am not sure if he had to do that though because the only crankwork I got charged for on my bill was $25 for polishing.

[bull]

I don't think it's unusual for flaws to show up in new aftermarket parts, especially considering the less-than-perfect craftsmanship that seems to be prevalent these days. My engine guy showed me a set of new, name-brand pistons with rough edges he had to file down before he could install them.

[aifilaw]

I want to believe that 440 Source does not knowingly ship bad parts.  But it sure appears that when they find out about bad parts from feedback from their customers and they realize that a batch of bad parts went out, they make zero effort to inform folks that have purchased these parts about the problem.  Now you can be sure that they know exactly who bought these items and all it would take would be a post card to that individual to warn them to check this or watch out for that or send that part back in and we will send you a good part.  But they don't do that.  So I am thinking that they are operating on such a tight budget that they simply can't afford to absorb the costs involved in letting folks know.  I don't think it's a good long term way to build up a good business reputation.  But in their defense, many other companies do the same thing.  I've had Ford Motor Company outright lie to me about problems.  And that's not lately.  They did it with my old F100 pickup.  Did it again later with my 94 Tarus.  GE didnt' treat me right on one of their dishwashers.  I won't go into the gory details of these transactions but even Ma Mopar tries to rip people off on the warranty.  So 440 Source is not alone.  Good thing that we have the internet now and more specifically, the Mopar Forums so we can make each other aware of pertinent issues.  These days, it getting much harder to run a business in this fashion.  In fact, companies that keep on that track wind up not being in business.  This truism might be something for 440 Source to keep in mind.   

I work for a company, that currently is very very profitable, even with the sinking economy. I know about problems, I can think of two offhand. One is a flaw that the production line consistently screws up. The other is something the assembly line did they weren't supposed to that is not dangerous in any way, but is illegal.
In both cases the companies decision (and believe me, they definitely have the money to do a recall, or tell all their customers what to watch out for) is to keep quiet, and handle warranty as they come in.
They do this for two reasons... 1. if the problem is in 1% of the product, and you tell everyone to watch out for the problem, 70% of the customers will request warranty monies. and 2. greed.

On this front, its everywhere, with every company.

[AKcharger]

I've been happy with all my stuff from 'em
- 470 kit
- heads
- water pump housing
- stuff
- I got an oil pan from them but it didn't fit well...that was a bummper

AK

[bull]

I've been happy with all my stuff from 'em
- 470 kit
- heads
- water pump housing
- stuff
- I got an oil pan from them but it didn't fit well...that was a bummper

AK

Is "stuff" in its own category above?

[AKcharger]

YUP, "stuff" is misc. bolts, nuts, gaskets too numerious to mention   

[defiance]

I'm actually still having the rear main seal issue ... but one thing to note is that honestly, I believe the problem is more related to machinists than 440source.  Not sure about that, and I hope to find out ASAP, but my point is I can't say with any confidence that there was anything at all wrong with what I got from 440source...  Or vice versa.

[Challenger340]

This is a tough issue to weigh in on, but just my 

I think the main reason people buy 440source stuff, is because it's "attratively" priced, without enough consideration given to "how" it gets that way, pricewise.

"price" is dictated by "Quality", you get what you pay for PERIOD !

"Quality" has many criterion to it, not the least of which is "consistency",
over large numbers of the mass produced Product to get to "that" attractive price.

This is NOT a knock on Brandon, or 440source.

Seen lotsa his stuff that was just fine, some that wasn't quite IMO.

Either way, whatever you purchase, it's up to you to check everything, lest you get Oily "shoesies".

Again, just my opinion
But, the guys who buy parts, because they are "attractively" priced, then typically want to access

                                        "Done right, but same, attractively priced Machining"  ??

The attractively priced machining, doesn't always include enough checks/criterion, to "catch" alot of the flaws that may be present in the "cheaper" parts  ?

I think alot of the problems being encountered these days with engines, is the result of the above Business facts in the Industry.

[General_01]

Here is my opinion:

I see that the majority of people who have problems are the do-it-yourself people. We buy the less expensive parts because we don't have a lot to spend. Thus, we put it together ourselves because we are trying to save money to do other things to our cars. I will be the first to admit that I have put an engine together with my cousin. The same motor twice in twenty years. It ran great. Does this mean I know everything to look for when putting an engine together? No. It means I did what I thought needed to be done and the other stuff worked out well. My cousin was a diesel mechanic, but he did not tear engines down, machine the block, or port heads. He changed clutches out, did air brakes, worked on trailers, welded when needed, replaced worn out parts, etc. It was not an engine shop. It was a repair shop. I have turned a wrench on cars since I was a kid helping my dad work on his daily drivers. This does not qualify me to be an engine builder or a mechanic. That is why, when it came to building a stroker, I decided to splurge and take it to professionals.

Please don't think I am bashing do-it-yourselfers. I am one of them and I have paid for my mistakes in the past. I had to have a tranny rebuilt because I totally spaced making sure both dowel pins were in place for the bellhousing. I just think people need to realize that just because you can turn a wrench doesn't qualify you to do everything on a car or motor. Remember, an engine shop has guys doing this every day. They see things and know things to look for because they run into it daily and weekly. You and I run into it every few years because we only do it when it breaks on our car. Just my 

[Challenger340]

Getting Tougher to be a "do it yourselfer" these days, partially because of the cheaper quality parts now prevalent in the market place.

Whereas years ago, the stuff you were typically working with, was generally "higher quality", albeit cost much more.

The same "cheaper parts" these days, that we "think", should make doing it yourself easier, IMO, are in fact making it tougher, and more prone to unrecognized problems.

Out of 100 Callies Cranks I used to work with, I might find 1 or 2 that weren't quite "perfect" for drop in use.

In todays world, out of 100 Eagle/Various Chinese cranks I work with, I probably regrind, or re-do to some degree, 40-50% ?    IMO.

Now, unfortuneately, I'm starting to see more & more Callies Cranks I gotta frig with,
IMO,
as a direct result of them having to attempt to "price match" somewhat with the flood of cheaper offshore stuff.

[General_01]

I think I would have to totally agree with that assesment 340. Sad, but totally true.

[kamkuda]

"price" is dictated by "Quality", you get what you pay for PERIOD !

Price can be dicated by quality but also by the margin extracted for the company.  This includes monies earned, reinvested into R&D
And I agree in that you most always need to pay for good quality.