Warning if you are using stealth heads.

[Steve P.]

I'm not eager to buy that slick Comp Cam tool to take off the springs without removing the head but hey...it IS a new tool!!!!

And THAT'S NEVER a bad thing.....   

[defiance]

After reading this, and considering how bad my luck has been lately (still working on my rear seal ), I just ordered a set of the comps referenced earlier in the thread to swap in this weekend.

[defiance]

Swapped all mine out last night.  <$100 spent (springs were in the right range, so I just swapped the retainers and locks), about an hour to swap 'em, and now I can rest easier  

[my73charger]

Are you guys going with the 7 or 10 degree retainers/locks?

[defiance]

I used the 10 degree comp set referenced above.

[firefighter3931]

Just a note for reference ;

The Comp 10* lock and retainer part numbers are :

Comp #741 retainer
Comp # 613 lock



Ron

[dkn1997]

.......yeah i really enjoyed the part where he tells his customers like it is by calling them dumb:

In plain english, this means "If you're dumb enough to slap a bunch of parts together in a performance engine without checking anything, don't expect us to bail you out once it turns into a grenade."

.........

from all of the postings I have seen from him, that plain language is definitely a bit out of character from brandon, but think about the amount of abuse he takes over there.   I gotta give brandon a free pass on the "dumb" comment due to the fact that he's said the exact same thing nicely for years...how many times do you have to tell someone something?

If Dram, Moper, ron firefighter, chryco psycho or any of the other respected guys over here or there says "you must measure everything in a high performance application, even new parts out of the box"  everyone agrees,   if brandon says it, he's making excuses for bad parts made in china.  that's such a double standard based on no facts, a political agenda, or some other thing beyond reason.



who could blame the guy for getting a tired of it.  He's a more patient man than I.  If I was doing my best and bringing affordable good products to a segment of the hobby that gets ignored by most of the large companies, and I got treated like poop for my trouble, I would tell the high and mighty regulars over there to kiss my hindparts and I'd start making buick parts for nice people.

[Mfr426]

So far I'm quite happy with my 440 Source parts (stroker kit, water pump, heads, windage tray, etc.).

My new retainters and keepers are here along with the cool Comp Cam valve spring tool. Friday will be new retainer day! 

[AKcharger]

...If Dram, Moper, ron firefighter, chryco psycho or any of the other respected guys over here or there says "you must measure everything in a high performance application, even new parts out of the box"  everyone agrees,   if brandon says it, he's making excuses for bad parts made in china.  that's such a double standard based on no facts, a political agenda, or some other thing beyond reason...

Here Here!

You get what you pay for. I paid $900 for a set of Aluminum heads, that's a great deal, BUT I took 'em down to my shop to have them checked before I installed them. Now, had I paid like $5-6K for a set They'd BETTER be perfect.

[john108]

I Agree
I paid $1000 for a new set of e-heads and I plan on having them professionally checked out.

[Mfr426]

Well I put the new retainers and keepers on yesterday. The job (with the motor in the car) took about 2 hours. I bought the Comp Cam "on head" valve compressor tool. It worked well. The valves back near the firewall were a bit tougher to get to so I used a thick screwdriver to leverage the tool (instead of the supplied handle). That was no big deal and the tool is precision (thanks Ron).

The keepers that came on the stock Stealth heads are clearly wimpy. The ridge that is suppose to keep the keeper secure is VERY shallow and the overall strength of the keeper is questionable once you put it next to the Comp Cam keeper. The Comp Cam unit is about twice the overall thickness and size of the one that came on the heads. The retainer however appeared about the same quality as the Comp Cam unit.

Now that I see the issue with this keeper, I would strongly recommend any Stealth owners to make the change. Hopefully you can do it before you have the motor in the car. If you don't have that luxury, buy the Comp Cam tool and get the job done.

Pay attention to this thread folks!!!

Mike R in Reading PA

[firefighter3931]

Well I put the new retainers and keepers on yesterday. The job (with the motor in the car) took about 2 hours. I bought the Comp Cam "on head" valve compressor tool. It worked well. The valves back near the firewall were a bit tougher to get to so I used a thick screwdriver to leverage the tool (instead of the supplied handle). That was no big deal and the tool is precision (thanks Ron).

Good work Mike.....that wan't too difficult was it ? 

The keepers that came on the stock Stealth heads are clearly wimpy. The ridge that is suppose to keep the keeper secure is VERY shallow and the overall strength of the keeper is questionable once you put it next to the Comp Cam keeper. The Comp Cam unit is about twice the overall thickness and size of the one that came on the heads. The retainer however appeared about the same quality as the Comp Cam unit.

Mike, now you've seen the difference between a cheap "stamped" piece and a quality "machined + hardened" keeper. 

This is a no brainer upgrade....do it and you can sleep better at night. 



Ron

[tan top]

been thinking about getting a set of their CNC ported stealth  heads    .............. what happened to the head gasket problem after all , was it resolved .... seems odd to me they would invest all that dough in a new product & then cut corners on retainers & keepers ..

[Musicman]

I don't care who you by your heads from... The bottom line is, every piece of the puzzle will have to be checked, there is no such thing as "Plug & Play" in this area. Eddy, Indy, 440source... it makes no difference, they have all had their share of problems and will continue to do so. Yes, we hear a little more about some of the issues associated with 440source at the moment because they are the new guys on the block, and that's a good thing, but that does not mean that the competition is any better. If you do your homework you will find that the exact same problems still plague the old tried and true manufactures as well, so do not treat them as if they were somehow magically exempt from the same quality assurance checks.... Their Not.

[Musicman]

I noticed this morning that 440source is now selling and recommending the Comp Cams 10 degree Locks & Retainers as an upgrade for any head running greater than .500 lift on the valves.

http://440source.com/valveretainers.htm

Apparently someone has been listening to the customer... 

[Mfr426]

I think the 440 Source is a good company and sells good products. Just like all of us they are always learning. I give them credit for getting these parts available period and am happy with my purchases. 

[Belgium R/T -68]

What comp partnumbers is 440source using? I would like to upgrade my heads for future use.

[Mfr426]

I think they are the same parts that the experts here suggested. This is from Ron on the 8th...

This is what I got

"...Just a note for reference ;

The Comp 10* lock and retainer part numbers are :

Comp #741 retainer
Comp # 613 lock..."

[Belgium R/T -68]

I think they are the same parts that the experts here suggested. This is from Ron on the 8th...

This is what I got

"...Just a note for reference ;

The Comp 10* lock and retainer part numbers are :

Comp #741 retainer
Comp # 613 lock..."

Sorry, missed that one.

[frederick]

For future reference.
I've cc'd the 440 source head befoce and after skimming.

Stock: 84cc
Cut 1.25mm/0.0492": 75cc

[my73charger]

For future reference, if you are going to order these Comp 10* locks and retainers from Summit Racing, here are the links:
(I think it might actually be cheaper to order from 440Source after looking at it because the locks come in a set of 16 from Summit for $22 and a set of 32 from 440Source for $29)

Comp 741 Retainers
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CCA%2D741%2D16&N=700+115&autoview=sku

Comp 613 Locks
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CCA%2D613%2D16&N=700+115&autoview=sku

Just to be sure, these are correct right Ron?

[dstryr]

Those are the numbers.  I just looked at my receipt from the port work and the shop used 611-16 on my heads which have a recess for lash caps.  When I mocked up the Harland Sharp roller rockers they hit the valve tips perfectly but lash caps won't be used.  No issue here, is there?

[AKcharger]

I'll be doing mine towards the end of March. If any of you guys who already did the mod want to get rid of that spring tool or air adapter PM me.

[mally69]

Ok guys, Just today i started putting my new locks and retainers on my stealth heads. Well I bought the tool from comp to compress the springs while on the head and i used the tool that screws into the sparkplug hole to fill the cylinder full of air. Now, before i get to far along this story i just want to say that I had the valves and seats all checked and made sure they were sealing when i assembled my engine. Well today when i hooked the air up to the heads every valve had a small amount of air blowing through them intake and exhuast but my number 2 intake really was blowing the air through. If i am correct thier should be NO air leaking between the valve and the valve seat, Right?

[Steve P.]

As long as the valves are closed you should NOT be leaking by.  (Obviously you have removed the rocker rods so the valves SHOULD all be completely closed).  You may hear some air escaping passed the rings and that air will escape through all the drain-back holes for oil. This can sometimes sound like a valve leaking. You can test by putting your hands over the carb when on an intake valve and the exhaust tips when on an exhaust valve.

Something I do when testing is:  With an air charge on the cylinder, I tap the valve tip with a brass hammer to open and reseat the valve. You should not have any build up on your valves as they are so new, but you just never know. It doesn't take much carbon buildup to hang a valve slightly open.


If you have a huge rush of air bypassing a valve it is time to pull the heads and inspect and repair.



Good luck bro. Let us know ...............