Forgotten And Neglected Daytonas & Superbirds

[nascarxx29]

This might explain the XX29 daytona vin number shortage .A XS 29 Daytona on factory document .For this survivor daytona XX29L9B356530 http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,34131.0.html

[nascarxx29]

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Daytona and 500 Registrations from  1976 wing warrior newsletter.It reads how many of you daytona and chargers 500 owners have the problem of possesing a registration slip showing maybe XS on the paperwork instead of XX.Well if you want to correct this error.Then heres what Mike Mcguire says you have to go through to straighten the matter out.As he had the same problem with his daytona.You write to James H Kilroy chrysler corporation office of civic affairs P.O. Box 1919 Detroit Michigan 48231.Include a copy of the title and picture of the car.And if possible a picture of the serial number on the dash.Or from the engine compartment plate.We recommend you use the dash.As we have seen a case where they even put XS on the engine compartment plate instead of XX as was on the dash.Mr Klilroy will inturn respond with a letter to your state DMV notorized stating he correct serial number.And they will in turn change the registration.Most of these problems were caused by an erroneous statement on the the factory title of origin.And in this case the mistake was made on Mikes Daytona.

It was the case on 69 charger 500-s

[FJMG]

     

This might explain the XX29 daytona vin number shortage .A XS 29 Daytona on factory document .For this survivor daytona XX29L9B356530

   Except that this car actually DOES show up on the list. Very cool paperwork nascarxx29!

After going thru those pics in the link I see that this car has the earlier dual cooling holes in the rad yoke support and the std 8.75" axle bumper instead of the larger dana unit. It is rather intersting to see that so many dana cars were manufactured with the incorrect bumber. Does anybody have a pic of a Dana-equipped Daytona that was actually BUILT with the larger Dana bumpers.

[TONY]

my daytona had a xs title, + it ended up costing me $10k

the guy i was buying the car from and i agreed on a price, he was nervous that the title read xs instead of xx,

he got ahold of someone in the winged warriors club to ask him about that, even though i told him that the vin flub  was ok with me,

the club took the liberty of giving his ph# out and a bidding war started, + i ended up having to pay an addtl $10k more to "win" the car

[superbirdtom]

Yes we need them  .I got Barrys email I sent him some documents for his Hamtramck site.Gotta ask about those wings

>>>>>>>>>>>>


The car is long buried in the dump. the wing was sold yaers ago . the engine?  I have the tranny. 

[69bronzeT5]

I'd be digging to find that 'Bird

[superbirdtom]

Don't think I haven't thought about digging that car up. but underground here where our rainfall is 200 inches of rain a year , and the car being buried in 1973, don't think theirs much left , but theres hundreds of buried cars along with it . it is capped off with epa approved method and no one can dig around the old dump. drat!!!  it will haunt us all forever!!

[hemigeno]

This might explain the XX29 daytona vin number shortage .A XS 29 Daytona on factory document .For this survivor daytona XX29L9B356530

I don't think I've ever seen an original Daytona's Manufacturer's Statement of Origin that did NOT list XS29 on it.  There were a whole lot of cars that had issues with their title not matching the actual VIN of the car for that very reason - I know all of the Daytonas originally titled in Missouri were that way.  Unless the owner took the time to fill out the title application differently than the MSO, and provided the proper VIN correction/verification document, my guess is that they all started out with an incorrect title.  The XS vs XX can't be the reason there are shortfalls in recorded HemiDaytonas compared to Galen's number, since I'm pretty convinced that every (or nearly every) Daytona had that same MSO quirk. 

So far, I have found a couple discrepancies where a known HemiDaytona was recorded on the Shipping List as a 440 car.  There are not that terribly many of them that have surfaced or proven to be that way though, not nearly enough for me to say with any degree of certainty that Galen's numbers are correct.  Who's to say where those numbers came from...   

   It is rather intersting to see that so many dana cars were manufactured with the incorrect bumber. Does anybody have a pic of a Dana-equipped Daytona that was actually BUILT with the larger Dana bumpers.

So far, every 4-speed Daytona that I have ever seen had the rounded Dana bumpers, and my car originally came that way also.  Robert, you and I have kicked around the axle bumper issue before, and I will grant you that an inordinate number of automatic SuperPerformance Axle Package Daytonas (cars with the 4.10 Dana and a 727) do have the pointed bumper rather than the "correct" rounded one.  That may have been just a late '69 phenomenon though, as there are other periods where that is not the case. 

It could be that the line worker during that timeperiod did not interpret the engineering drawings correctly, as I know you have seen the factory info that goes against what can be observed on more than a few Daytonas such as the Dressler car.  This is just a guess, but the Hamtramck worker responsible for installing the axle bumpers may not have taken the time to sort through which automatic cars had the Dana axle and which didn't.  That SHOULD have been the determining factor, and from everything I've seen, they at least put the right bumpers on the 4-speed cars (Hemi and 440, which got the Dana no matter what).

The follow-up question is (especially for a guy in your situation, Robert):

If the factory SHOULD have put the rounded bumpers on 4.10 automatic cars, do you re-assemble it with those, or with the "incorrect" pointed bumpers?  Personally, I think a case could be made either way - but I lean towards putting the car back together the way it was originally built if it can be documented.

[FJMG]

  Thanks Gene, Of all the 4-spd Daytonas I have seen I Don't have a record of the Bumper (had seen them many years ago). So this issue seems to to revolve around the A32 package on Daytonas then. Well that narrows it down somewhat, interesting. If this seems to be a "late" phenomenom them maybe it was a supplier issue? This could be checked with 70 chargers and the A32 package?

[nascarxx29]

Was looking for my 69 salesman book .But found a 70 charger book page .With the axle codes and definations of Auto and 4 speed axle packages
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/dealerships/SalesmansPocketGuides/1970/70_Charger_2.jpg

[maxwellwedge]

I will check my 4.10 Auto 'Tona and my 4.10 Auto '70 Charger and chime in. I can confirm that I have seen no rhyme nor reason on E-Bodies - They are all over the map.

[hemigeno]

Weirdly enough, the '70-71 parts book makes things pretty simple in contrast to the Engineering Illustrations.  That parts book says 1970 4-speed 440 & 426 B-Bodies get the rounded bumper, and pretty much everything else gets the pointed bumper.  E-bodies have a separate part number from the B's for 1970, but for 1971 they used the same part numbers for both B & E-bodies.  If I'm not mistaken, I think the difference is in the metal strap that slides through the rubber bumper and fastens it the framerail, and not the rubber itself. 

The Engineering Illustrations for both 1969 and 1970 are pretty confusing and still don't seem to match up with what was built - and what was built wasn't always the pillar of consistency either.

Thanks for checking out your cars, Jim - I'll be interested to see what they had.

[pettybird]

the '67 Hemi automatic GTX I'm restoring here at work has the rounded ones, too.  3.23 axle. 

i need to post pictures of that car...  I'm almost done underneath...

[maxwellwedge]

Weirdly enough, the '70-71 parts book makes things pretty simple in contrast to the Engineering Illustrations.  That parts book says 1970 4-speed 440 & 426 B-Bodies get the rounded bumper, and pretty much everything else gets the pointed bumper.  E-bodies have a separate part number from the B's for 1970, but for 1971 they used the same part numbers for both B & E-bodies.  If I'm not mistaken, I think the difference is in the metal strap that slides through the rubber bumper and fastens it the framerail, and not the rubber itself. 

The Engineering Illustrations for both 1969 and 1970 are pretty confusing and still don't seem to match up with what was built - and what was built wasn't always the pillar of consistency either.

Thanks for checking out your cars, Jim - I'll be interested to see what they had.

OK - Here is a partial list of some of my stuff...

69 Hemi 4-Speed RR - Big, rounded (Oct. Build)
69 Hemi 4-Speed GTX - Big, rounded (Oct. Build)
Dana Auto 'Tona - Big, pointed
8-3/4 'Tona - Big Pointed
8-3/4 6BBL SuperBird - Big Pointed

(Getting the Idea I am a Boob man yet???)

70 Dana Auto Hemi Charger - Not here - Can't find my pics - My Resto guy is checking for me

[maxwellwedge]

Maybe we should start a new thread on the bumpers 

[FJMG]

   Yes  I can see the title now  "The bumper thread, no not the CHROME ones the RUBBER ones, no not E-body the axle ones, no not the pinion snubber". Awe shucks I think I should use the part # instead. Better yet maybe someone else should title it.

[maxwellwedge]

Let's call it:
Big and Round
or
Big and Pointy
and move it to the "Adult" section!

[quapman]

You guys will like these..........

Wasn't there a guy on fleebay selling the Bird serial # list several years ago?

This one was a mile from my old house. It was a busy street, so I could never get a chance to get pics of it in the SNOW. Yes, all TWO FEET of it. I don't remember where this car went. The owner was a super-putz. He wanted one of every color and never paid more than $4500 for any of 'em. He was also looking for a set of recall wheels for one, because he "thought they were neat". Yep, scored a mint set for like $400 with a want ad in some magazine. I tried to tell him they were 69 only wheels, but he didn't care. He and a few others are why I look at these cars at shows, but shy away from chatting with the owners.

I heard Dick Landy almost bought the car. Not sure if the owner even knew who Dandy Dick was.

Anywhoo, enjoy..............

Steve

[quapman]

Maybe somebody here owns these.........

Taken at the Weedsport Central NY Mopar Club Mopar Madness, near Syracuse, NY in 94 or 95........

Yeah, it's got a Hemi!

[WingCharger]

GOD...IT MAKES ME SICK!!!!

sorry, im new here and im not sure what you mean

He is VERY young he does not know what he means half the time either.

I think he mean's seeing rusty Wing cars makes him sick.

CORRECT!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!

[pettybird]

GOD...IT MAKES ME SICK!!!!

sorry, im new here and im not sure what you mean

He is VERY young he does not know what he means half the time either.

I think he mean's seeing rusty Wing cars makes him sick.

CORRECT!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!

most of them WERE rusty, and our cars still kinda are...  I guess I don't have to worry about hauling you around, eh?   

[69bronzeT5]

You guys will like these..........

Wasn't there a guy on fleebay selling the Bird serial # list several years ago?

This one was a mile from my old house. It was a busy street, so I could never get a chance to get pics of it in the SNOW. Yes, all TWO FEET of it. I don't remember where this car went. The owner was a super-putz. He wanted one of every color and never paid more than $4500 for any of 'em. He was also looking for a set of recall wheels for one, because he "thought they were neat". Yep, scored a mint set for like $400 with a want ad in some magazine. I tried to tell him they were 69 only wheels, but he didn't care. He and a few others are why I look at these cars at shows, but shy away from chatting with the owners.

I heard Dick Landy almost bought the car. Not sure if the owner even knew who Dandy Dick was.

Anywhoo, enjoy..............

Steve

Can I please use those pics?

[nascarxx29]

My friend in Nevada seen a black superbird with a hemi in it .And it belonged to Dick Landy

[quapman]

Can I please use those pics?

I don't see a problem and I appreciate your asking.  If you think of it, just credit me with a "Thanks to quapman" or "Thanks to Steve M." or something along those lines. Everybody needs their 15 minutes of fame, right?

Steve   

[69bronzeT5]

Can I please use those pics?

I don't see a problem and I appreciate your asking.  If you think of it, just credit me with a "Thanks to quapman" or "Thanks to Steve M." or something along those lines. Everybody needs their 15 minutes of fame, right?

Steve   

Thanks! Will do!