hemigeno's Daytona restoration - a few more tweaks... again!

[hemigeno]

OK, here are the pictures I took this morning of the original seal material I'm trying to replicate.  The first two show the overall surface of the seal material (or what I have left of that particular seal!).  The third shot shows the edge of the seal, with the loose fibers sticking out.  The reason the fibers are not sticking out all the way through the edge, is because I cut most of the way through the rubber with a utility knife, and tore the last little bit.  It's the torn part that really shows the fibers.

The last picture is a piece of repro material that has a very close look on the outside.  However, this material is roughly half as thick as the original stuff, and is so flexible that it would not be suitable for use in a K-frame seal application.  It's one of the closer materials we've found as far as looks go.

[hemigeno]

Here are four more pictures I took of various edges around the original seal material.  You can clearly see the embedded fibers.

From what I've been told, the fibers are not asbestos as I had originally suspected.  One lab feels that the fibers are nylon, but both thought that it wasn't asbestos.

I have seen a few NOS seal pieces from Superbirds, and they seem to have a white cotton fiber embedded rather than the nylon (assuming that's what this is).  It would have been easy for a material/supplier change to have occurred, as Chrysler wasn't exactly known for consistency.    

[hemigeno]

Hey Gene, how was your trip? Thanks for the invite, I wish I could have came out to see you and the Daytona. My to do list is still weighing pretty heavy and I am running out of time before the S word hits. How was she looking, is the paint completed yet? Look forward to more pics. Take care.

Steve

Hi Steve,

Wish you could have made it by Vance's place.  I thought I'd be there for an hour or so, and ended up forcing myself to leave after 5 hours so I could make it back home at a reasonable time.  There is an incredible amount of information to learn about how these cars were assembled, what parts were used, and what the final product should look like.  It is always a learning experience when I spend time up there.

The car was not painted, nor did I expect it to be with the missing air seals.  Vance has finished up or shipped out a lot of his other projects in the shop, so I know he's itching to get going.  I took another round of photos, and maybe this time it won't take me six months to post them...   

[WINGR]

Thanks again Vance, I can imagine how hard it would be to see your baby and then have to leave her there again. It will all be worth it once she's done and cruising the highbanks of talladega. Again, can't wait to see more pictures. 

[472 R/T SE]

We used to use shims that looked VERY similar to those for concrete bridge beams, pre-cast.  Just a lot thicker.

Beings you're in the construction trade you may know what I'm talking about.  Or we use different stuff up here, although if what I'm talking about was feasible you wouldn't be looking? 

[Daytona R/T SE]

Geno, That original material looks like the backside of a roofing shingle-the side without the grit on it

I had a new roof put on my house in August, and I'm still finding hunks of this sh#t everywhere

Every piece I find has 243 nails in it 

Can you get gritless shingle material ...gritless roll roofing

Ok, I'm nuts...I'll shut up now 

[hemigeno]

We used to use shims that looked VERY similar to those for concrete bridge beams, pre-cast.  Just a lot thicker.

Beings you're in the construction trade you may know what I'm talking about.  Or we use different stuff up here, although if what I'm talking about was feasible you wouldn't be looking? 

I've had a number of people suggest mud flap manufacturers as a potential source, but haven't found one to contact just yet.  They too make a material a whole lot thicker than the 1/8" I'm shooting for.  Maybe they'd ratchet the mill down and run a batch through for me, I dunno... 

Geno, That original material looks like the backside of a roofing shingle-the side without the grit on it

I had a new roof put on my house in August, and I'm still finding hunks of this sh#t everywhere

Every piece I find has 243 nails in it 

Can you get gritless shingle material ...gritless roll roofing

Ok, I'm nuts...I'll shut up now 

Nope, you're not nuts at all, Chris.  Fiberglass shingles have a reinforcing pattern very similar to this, but they don't come "gritless" that I know of.  Good idea though.

I talked with the most recent rubber Mfg. that I'm working with on Monday.  They are going to run another customer's order of what the rep feels is a suitable replacement material yet this week.  The sales rep promised to send me a sample of this product to me once it's produced.  That means I'll have to call next week and remind him, at which time he'll look on the schedule for the NEXT time that same customer's rubber will be milled.   

[hemigeno]

OK, I have a few minutes this afternoon so I'll post a few of the pics taken when I checked on the car in October.

The first pic is of the battery tray.  For whatever reason, I had forgotten whether Vance had changed out the battery tray to a very nice original he had from another Charger Daytona project (same as any other late '60s B-body AFAIK).  Just for the record, I snapped a pic of the part number.  Yep, it's the original piece and not the later-style NORS part that had been on the car for a while.  There are a few minor differences besides just the part number stamping.

In the second pic, I had double-checked to see if they had drilled the extra hole for the relocated wire harness T-stud.  Sure enough, they have not drilled it out yet.  Since Creative installed this hole, everything would be painted prior to that particular hole being made.  The other holes were punched out before the paint process, meaning they would have paint on the inside of the hole itself.  Vance will drill the hole after everything is painted.

The third picture is of the latch tray support piece, which is finished to resemble bare metal.  Most cars' support piece was painted black on top - usually after the piece was spot-welded to the yoke, and probably at the same time that the inner fenders/seals were blacked out.  None of that blackout was applied on my car, which meant that anything left bare was pretty pitted up.  They filled in the pits to smooth everything out nicely, and then shot it with a paint.  It would be impossible to restore the original piece in a bare finish with all the pits, so the next best thing (in my book) is to refinish the original part.  Vance could have made a new piece and left it bare, but then that would be a replacement part. 

I don't know how many of you guys have noticed the left side shock towers on many Hamtramck-built cars, but a whole lot of them have a TON of heavy pock-marks where the tower was spot welded onto the inner fender.  Someone hammered the tar out of this area regularly, as mine is not the first car I've noticed this on.  It doesn't make any sense to me, as there really isn't a clearance problem to solve that I know of - they just got happy with the welder, I suppose...   

[hemigeno]

Here's how the car looked on the 8th - not much different in a lot of respects overall.

The last couple of pictures were some components getting ready to be sent off.  The instrument cluster looks dark because one of the prior owners (not the guy I bought the car from) took a can of black spraypaint and Earl Scheibbed the tan dashpads without masking off the bezel.     All the dash components have since safely arrived at Performance Car Graphics for a complete rework. 

[hemigeno]

The nose is all ready for action - just waiting for the rubber air seals still.

I did get an update from the latest rubber manufacturer that says they can help.  It took two more follow-up phone calls after they assured me they'd have the sample sent out to me right away.  Right now, they say I should get it on Monday - but I'm not holding my breath.  The price is right on the material, if it's OK stuff.  Exclusive of shipping charges, the worst it should cost for enough raw material to do one car is $21-28.  Of course, if I need them to (and if they're willing to) mix me up a custom batch, it could be a whole lot more than that.  Winter weather is coming to Missouri anyway, and this Mfg. is in the desert southwest - so I might just hop on the state bird of Texas (Southwest Airlines) and go visit these guys.  Maybe they wouldn't ignore me if I was camped out in their lobby...

David Patik at PCG seems to think he has a promising rubber manufacturer close to him in Florida that could supply a suitable rubber material.  He was supposed to hear back from them this week, and since David didn't call to gloat (that he found the right stuff before I did) I suspect they didn't come through for him either.

[hemigeno]

Hey Stuart, I really did dig around looking for the original turn signals from my car.  These are the piles & racks I went through, and did not see them.      That took a while. 

Vance's guys that work in the sheet metal shop were not there that day, and these are the same ones who took everything apart.  I did get a pair of good used lenses from Vance for you though.

[hemigeno]

The Dana axle tube is the original one from the car, dated in late May of '69 (they stamped both the initial machining date and final assembly dates on the tube).  Looks a whole lot nicer now... 

Vance pointed out that the pinion will be coming back off for refinishing.  The yoke itself is a bare cast piece, and the shield is a bare stamped steel piece - not the gloss black you see here.  Vance's guys on the sheet metal side were helping out with some of the component restoration work, but they didn't know to handle this part differently.  No big deal.  One other little tidbit...  See that machined flat spot where the pinion snubber mates up?  That machined area will have its black paint removed.  The machining work was originally done after the black paint was applied, and you can see a little bit of this area even after the snubber is installed.  It's all about the details...

I also took plenty of engine pictures, as Vance was just getting started with the final engine assembly.

[hemigeno]

More engine detail pictures.  Vance is prepping the engine to run, and will clean and seal everything up nicely before starting the engine.  I've asked him to break the engine in prior to painting/detailing/installing it in the Daytona, so I won't be as worried about that sort of thing once I get the car back.  That'll also give him the chance to fix any seal leaks/seepage as well, which will only help the finished product.

That first picture shows what was originally the right cylinder head - where the alternator bolts up.  Both Vance and I think this head had a machining or casting defect.  The original and second owner complained to me that the car had a tendency to snap alternator bolts.  This weird hole must have played a role in that, as something must have been out of alignment to break an alternator bolt (1st owner said it happend 4 times or more, second owner said it happened a time or two).  If you look, we've swapped the location of the cylinder heads so that this end of the head now points towards the firewall.  Vance is still thinking about adding some epoxy filler and machining out the hole to look normal.  It's not extremely visible, but it does look weird if you can see it at all.

[hemigeno]

More engine detail shots

[hemigeno]

I received an education in oil pumps while I was there.  Sharp-eyed viewers will note that the oil pump installed on the block is the "long" oil pump style, which wasn't used in 1969.  Because it has taller rollers/gears, it can move a lot more oil volume than the original short style can.  Since Vance is responsible for protecting the engine during the breakin period, he thought it would be better to break the engine in with the "wrong" pump, and then swap the correct one in prior to painting and detailing everything.

The orange painted oil pump cap is the correct style for '69 HP engines.  Note the "Y" shaped casting differences, and the square shape of the end cap/plug - not a hex head plug.

The really dirty/cruddy pump was the one taken from the engine in my car when it had the fire.

[hemigeno]

More detail shots

[hemigeno]

Some shots of the slugs waiting patiently to do their thing... someday...

You can also see the restriction fitting placed in the oil passage.  That's a must-do modification for any engine project if you want it to turn any kind of RPM's.  The Oiling System had to be considered the Achilles heel of Mopar engines -IMHO.

[nascarxx29]

Coming along nicely

[hemigeno]

Thanks, Dave!

[hemigeno]

A few more detail shots, including one of the underneath side of the fuel pump.  The Carter pumps from back in the very late '60s through VERY early 1970 had a distinctive shape, and stampings/markings.  I was lucky enough to find a correct 4434 pump, but none of us feel lucky enough to say that it will last very long.  Those rubber diaphragms just don't age very well even if they're not used.

[hemigeno]

Here's a subject you probably haven't heard much about lately...  Wheel Weights.

The original factory wheel weights from that period mostly had a distinctive "diamond L H" stamping to them.  You can also see in this picture that there is almost always a paint mark right above where the original wheel weight was installed.  Chrysler still does that to this day, as my '07 truck has the same paint mark on the sidewall where each wheel weight is installed. 

Vance had a couple of original/intact spare tires and wheels, which show the wheel weight and paint daub mark remnant.  He thinks he has a lead (no pun intended) on a stash of weights with these markings, so hopefully we can actually/properly balance the restored wheels and NOS tires I have squirreled away.

[hemigeno]

More detail shots, including one showing the factory's original lifting brackets attached to each engine at the Trenton engine assembly plant.  These brackets were in place when the engine was painted, and were usually removed as the car was being assembled.  That means there should be a small bare spot where the engine bracket was.  Vance will replicate this detail once the engine is ready for painting (after break-in).

I put the shot of assembly-line-correct lug nuts in there just for reference.  My car had road wheels, so I'll be refurbishing a set of chrome lugs for it, but I had never seen what correct pristine steel wheel lugs look like.  The reddish lug is the left-hand thread, of course.

The last picture is of a freeze plug.  We were going to try and replicate the small diamond pattern found on the original freeze plugs, but there are two problems with that:  hiding the "P" already stamped on this plug set, and creating the new mark accurately.  To avoid having visible evidence of this, he'll just apply a liberal amount of paint over the plugs to help obscure the detail.  These are somewhat hard to see anyway.

[hemigeno]

More engine shots, including one of the totally un-touched VIN pad.  This will remain just as you see it - totally un-touched (apart from paint).  The casting date of the engine, as you can see, is several months prior to its engine assembly date on June 6th.  That's a little unusual, but not unheard of.

The last pictures are of a set of new exhaust tip hangers.  The repros I had found/bought (from Mitchell?) just don't look quite like the originals.  This set that Vance had laying around will work perfectly.  Note the burn/weld marks still visible...

[moparstuart]

Hey Stuart, I really did dig around looking for the original turn signals from my car.  These are the piles & racks I went through, and did not see them.      That took a while. 

Vance's guys that work in the sheet metal shop were not there that day, and these are the same ones who took everything apart.  I did get a pair of good used lenses from Vance for you though.

awesome thanks . PM me what i owe you and i'll send you a check

[hemigeno]

awesome thanks . PM me what i owe you and i'll send you a check

Vance gave them to me for free, but you can have them at double that price   


I'm not gonna let you pay me for something that didn't cost me a cent.  Now delivery is another story...