hemigeno's Daytona restoration - a few more tweaks... again!

[moparstuart]

  that nose is a thing of beauty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hemigeno]

Thanks everyone, it is inching along and I'm as anxious to see it in paint & back together as anyone.

Brian/UFO, you're right on about the spoiler being in the trunk and there's paperwork to back that up besides the photograpic evidence of the cars on the car hauler.  My guess is that Creative could have used different procedures at different times.  Just because mine & others were treated a certain way doesn't mean that ALL cars should follow that pattern.  There probably are untouched cars and/or cars with DayOne photos showing a body-color chin spoiler, perhaps even cars with black stripes.  The key is, if you have enough indicators to show how a particular car was when new, it might be more appropriate to follow the car's actual historical pattern.

Vance and I are both people who don't mind bucking trends, so some of these little details probably intrigue us more than others.

Any more opinions to chime in?  I might start another thread with a poll so we can see what the cumulative DC.com thoughts are.

Thanks again for the comments - the whole reason for posting all this info is so that you guys can see the inner workings of the whole restoration rather than just the before & after photos.  I don't know about y'all, but I've learned a TON of stuff just from seeing everything taken apart and how they are going about refinishing it.  Hopefully some other folks can do the same.

[tan top]

if a black spoiler came off your Daytona , & it looks like it has not had previous damage  like (UFO) said , then if t were  me i would paint it black  .

[abebummy26]

Black would be my suggestion.
1. It would be different which in my opinion is always good .
2. I think it would look better.
3. It would be correct for this car so it appears.

[69_500]

Oh if i make another trip to Detriot I'll defiantely be packing a lunch/supper and or taking him to eat at his restaurant. So this time you didn't get out of there until 3 am huh? Not bad, considering it was around 7 pm when you got there wasn't it?


As far as the chin spoiler goes. Hmmmm, that one is a difficult one. If you go with black, which is my choice then your always going to get the ??'s from people at shows, and judges as well. If you go with R4 red on the chin spoiler your always going to get the from people like me. 

I wonder what is under the black paint on Jim's green car? I know he wouldn't want to sand it down to look, until the time comes that someone chooses to restore the car. I'm trying to think what other Daytona's I've seen with a black chin spoiler. So all three of the Daytona's he has done have had a black chin spoiler?

[moparstuart]

Oh if i make another trip to Detriot I'll defiantely be packing a lunch/supper and or taking him to eat at his restaurant. So this time you didn't get out of there until 3 am huh? Not bad, considering it was around 7 pm when you got there wasn't it?


As far as the chin spoiler goes. Hmmmm, that one is a difficult one. If you go with black, which is my choice then your always going to get the ??'s from people at shows, and judges as well. If you go with R4 red on the chin spoiler your always going to get the from people like me. 

I wonder what is under the black paint on Jim's green car? I know he wouldn't want to sand it down to look, until the time comes that someone chooses to restore the car. I'm trying to think what other Daytona's I've seen with a black chin spoiler. So all three of the Daytona's he has done have had a black chin spoiler?

does 3 daytona's spoiler have any rock chips or maybe they could sand some on the back of it ?

[69_500]

Rock chips? I think so. Let me take a few minutes to search the photo's I've taken of the car in the past couple of years.

[69_500]

Can't find a photo showing just the nose cone or chin spoiler on the car. However the ones that I have that do show the front end, show a large portion of the passenger side top part of the chin spoiler appears to be bare metal.

[hemigeno]

Danny, Vance has done way more than 3 Daytonas - but he has seen three original/untouched cars with black chin spoilers.  Bill Card's, Chris Sauer's and mine.  I don't know how many of the other Daytona's he's done were original/untouched cars, or how many of the untouched cars (if there were any more) had body-colored spoilers.

I have forgotten whether Jim's Daytona had black underneath the green, or green underneath the black - but I think it showed both colors.

[tan top]

highly unlikely i know , but just supposing that all the daytonas come with body colored chin spoilers , &  for one reason or another they got  damaged  early on  , & the first owners went to the dealer to get a nother , & it came in black or  the red oxide stuff . not thinking it would  matter & trying to save  some dollars , the owners  decided to  get a black  spray bomb out  like i say guys just guessing

[moparstuart]

highly unlikely i know , but just supposing that all the daytonas come with body colored chin spoilers , &  for one reason or another they got  damaged  early on  , & the first owners went to the dealer to get a nother , & it came in black or  the red oxide stuff . not thinking it would  matter & trying to save  some dollars , the owners  decided to  get a black  spray bomb out  like i say guys just guessing

Thats true and that is a very low piece easy to damage on a parking block or curb .  I would bet that more then likely some slipped out of creative black though ?

[69_500]

Gene the question of the chin spoiler is making me wonder. I went through all the papers from Michigan, but found nothing regarding paint the chin spoiler body color or black. Unless I'm overlooking something from those, I didn't see anything. I can't think of many unrestored Daytona's to go check out, I know that Dave B's car had a red chin spoiler on it, or at least in all the pictures I've seen of it.

[moparstuart]

  do it in black , then if you get better information later going the otherway. It's an easy fix. Or if you get tired of the questions paint it then !

[PocketThunder]

This chin spoiler color decision is almost as bad as deciding what color the bezels should be on the back, stripe or body color?     

[hemigeno]

Great analogy there, Paul.  If it wasn't for the fairly small number of black spoiler examples we've all seen as compared to the number of body-colored marker bezels, it would be clearcut.

Might be a good question for David Patik, although I think I know what his initial answer will be. 

[Aero426]

I think if you paint it black, you will go weary from the questions.   I would keep that spoiler as-is for proof, and put a Patik repro on it

[Magnumcharger]

I think if you paint it black, you will go weary from the questions.   I would keep that spoiler as-is for proof, and put a Patik repro on it

Do your original in black. Buy a Patik repop and paint it body color. Then swap 'em out when you feel the need.

[Troy]

Why not just make it however you feel like it and tell the naysayers where they can stick their opinions? If you're going through all the trouble to make it "original" then by all means duplicate it exactly. Honestly, it's the stories about the cars and the idiosyncrasies that excite me and if they all followed the same recipe I'd skip right on by looking for something more interesting. Just like adding all the seat buttons to Dave's car when it seems that the factory forgot that step. That's cool if you ask me (and a conversation starter). I can't imagine that anyone would think that Gene could have actually messed it up...

Troy

[hemigeno]

Why not just make it however you feel like it and tell the naysayers where they can stick their opinions? If you're going through all the trouble to make it "original" then by all means duplicate it exactly. Honestly, it's the stories about the cars and the idiosyncrasies that excite me and if they all followed the same recipe I'd skip right on by looking for something more interesting. Just like adding all the seat buttons to Dave's car when it seems that the factory forgot that step. That's cool if you ask me (and a conversation starter).

, especially when it comes to the stories about the cars.  Doug's also right though - there will be a never-ending stream of people who will point out that eggregious mistake.  I might make up a little sign to put underneath the car that says "The original spoiler was black, but thanks anyway"

I traded emails with David Patik yesterday on this subject, and he was curious to know some of the details about the spoiler itself such as: how the edge looked; how the bend in the center was formed; and what shape the attachment holes were.  I guess he has done enough research on the subject of spoilers (that's a good thing since he reproduces them), and can hopefully tell me a few things about both mine and the other spoiler Vance still has.

I can't imagine that anyone would think that Gene could have actually messed it up...

Nothing like a little pressure, eh?   

[69_500]

Well Gene, there will be people asking about the black painted chin spoiler, as well as the latch tray areaa on your car. Anywhere else that people will be pestering you with questions? Oh other than the local yocal thinking that you messed up a perfect General Lee by putting a nose and a wing on it. 

[hemigeno]

I traded emails with David Patik about the chin spoiler on my car, and he was adamant that the darker greenish primer we exposed on top of the aluminum would not have been used.  He was pretty convinced that the spoiler I have is not wearing its original paint.

Soooo, to find out for myself I placed a call to the original owner, who contacted me yesterday afternoon.  As it turns out, the car did NOT have a black spoiler originally.  Nor, as it turns out, did the car have its scoops painted black at the St. Josepth Dodge dealership as I had earlier thought.  The original owner (Terry) remembers both of those being R4 red when he bought the car.  So, those "touches" must have been done by either the dealership who took the car in trade, or by Owner #2.  I'll talk with the 2nd owner sometime soon to find out what he remembers of the deal.

I found out another couple of tidbits about the car's history too, which always fascinate me.  Terry used to take the car to occasionally to a dragstrip north of his hometown, where he ran both the 1/4 and the 1/8mile.  He said the car would be doing well over 100mph at the 1/4 mile, but he didn't remember the ET.  The last time he went down the strip he was racing a 396 Chevelle, who insisted on getting a car length headstart on the Daytona.  The Chevelle beat Terry to the line by a nose (no pun intended), but was disqualified afterwards when it was discovered the Chevelle's engine was not stock.  That was the last time Terry ran the car on the strip.  He told me about running between St. Joseph and KC on the 4-lane cruising at 135mph, and being able to kick the carburetor secondaries in at that speed.   

One final point...  when the car developed its oil consumption problems, he traded it in on a '72 340 Cuda in early October of '72.  The dealership gave him $1,600 trade-in value for the Daytona, and I know from talking with Owner #2 that it was purchased from the same dealership less than two months later for $1,700.  Those were the days!

So, the mystery of the black spoiler (on my car, anyway) is solved.  That does not mean other cars did not come out with such, but mine was not equipped that way.

I hope to make it up to Michigan in a couple of weeks to check on the car's progress.  The nosecone is back on the car from what I hear, so it is starting to turn the corner.

[tan top]

solved your chin spoiler mastery then , thats awesome you could actually talk to the original owner    thanks for sharing the info ....... would love to here what story's the second owner has ..............

[BigBlockSam]

thats incredible that you got to talk to the original owner. congrats. Rene

[hemigeno]

That's actually the second time I've been able to talk with the original owner.  He's a really nice guy who (understandably) really wishes he had never gotten rid of the car.  If it hadn't had a problem burning some engine oil, he probably would have kept it since he liked the car alot.  The dealership he was taking the car to for warranty service on the oil problem would fill it up with oil and send him out for an "oil consumption" test.  In Terry's mind that was just the dealership's way of having him run 500 more miles onto the odometer and make it that much closer to the warranty's expiration.  It also said "Go Away" pretty clearly too.  The dealership supposedly put new rings in it, but Terry said it didn't change the way the car used oil one bit.  Chances are they didn't get any farther than taking the valve covers off, but who knows??

Terry said the very first time he drove the car into his hometown, he was immediately pulled over by the local State Highway Patrolman who wanted to know: Who he was; where he lived; what was he doing in town with that car; and what the car had in it.  I guess they wanted to know where to find him "just in case."  They'd have known whodunnit for sure with a car that stuck out like a bright red Daytona...

[69_500]

Unless the somehow got it confused with a green Daytona in the same town right?

Well I guess that solves part of the mysetery on the black chin spoiler. I wonder if they painted the scoops and chin spoiler black to match the other daytona that was in town. Probably saw the Green one running around town with the black scoops and chin spoiler, and someone thought it was a pretty cool idea and painted yours that way too.