Vibrations

[firefighter3931]

Thanks

Will try as soon as I solved the electrical problem.

What electrical problem ?

[Belgium R/T -68]

Thanks

Will try as soon as I solved the electrical problem.

What electrical problem ?

To start the car you have to put power directly on the startersolenoid so either the starterrelay, neutral safety switch or the ignitionswitch is brooken.

[Belgium R/T -68]

Fixed the neutral switch so the car starts with the ignitionkey but I'm back to step 1.

The engine can't handle the fuel with the choke activated although it's very cold, same problem as before.
this is what has happend since the rebuild was finished:

- First startup was perfect, same temprature as today, eddy 750 carb with choke.
- Second startup after "oilleak" engine don't start, I thought carb was flooding.
- Without choke it's possible to get the engine running untill it's warm.
- Test with Holley 750 with warm engine and it runs but no coldstart with choke.
- New Proform carn and new plugcables and same symptoms, engine can't handle the amount of fuel with choke.
  Can't get it running although I tried different positions of the distributor. Runs for a couple of seconds and dies.

Can it be the spark that's to weak for the cold engine with choke? 

Please help me.

[firefighter3931]

Per try firing the engine with the choke open. The idle mixture is probably too rich and needs to be adjusted. 



Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

Per try firing the engine with the choke open. The idle mixture is probably too rich and needs to be adjusted. 



Ron

Ron,
I will try that but how comes that the 750 Holley from the 300 gives the same symptoms but on the 300 it's perfect?

[firefighter3931]

Per try firing the engine with the choke open. The idle mixture is probably too rich and needs to be adjusted. 



Ron

Ron,
I will try that but how comes that the 750 Holley from the 300 gives the same symptoms but on the 300 it's perfect?

Probably because the 300 engine is properly tuned...the timing is correct. You still need to tune the GTX engine for both fuel and ignition. Every engine is different. 


Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

Tried with choke in different positions with same result, start to think it doesn't get enough fuel in this cold garage BUT,
coming back to the same question: why did the first startup went so perfect?

Will pull a plug to see if it's wet or dry.

[Belgium R/T -68]

Plugs are really wet, are my new plugs not correct? AcDelco R43S, the ones they had in the speedshop last time.

Checked them out, it's the correct type for a 440-69. Maybe not the best ones but they are new so the car should at least start.

What about weak spark? Should I try another coil maybe? Perhaps it had some overload due to all cranking in this "project"?

[Belgium R/T -68]

Tried a new coil but no change, I'm out of imagination. I could propably get it to run if I had someone standing besides me, I have an
enormously respect for carbfires.

[firefighter3931]

Once the plugs are fouled that badly it will be impossible to start. Throw a fresh set of NGK xr5's in there and start over with the choke in the open position. On fresh startups where the fuelpump hasn't self primed i like to fill the bowls up with gas using the vent tubes. This will give you enough fuel to run the engine while the pump is pulling fuel from the tank and priming the system.



Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

Ron,
Have to do with cleaning them unless those NGK's fit any european model. Will order some sets with the next need of parts.
For minimizing the idle fuelmix, is that screws inwards?

And anyway Ron, how comes it's getting wet in this cold? I almost don't touch the throttle.

[FLG]

Inwards leans mixture unless there something different on the proforms.

[firefighter3931]

Ron,
Have to do with cleaning them unless those NGK's fit any european model. Will order some sets with the next need of parts.
For minimizing the idle fuelmix, is that screws inwards?

And anyway Ron, how comes it's getting wet in this cold? I almost don't touch the throttle.

Per, to lean out the idle mixture you need to turn the screws in. Turn them all the way in and back them out 1 1/4 turns to start....that should be close enough to get you going.

Check the float level to make sure it's not flooding. The fuel level should be no more than halfway up the site glass on the side of the bowl. 


Have a look down the venturies with the engine being turned over to make sure fuel is not coming out of the boosters...if it is the floats are too high.



Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

Could finally get the engine started and running but this was without choke and full throttle. the engine is very sensitive for extra fuel
although it's around 38-40* F. Plugs were cleaned and I adjusted the idlemix to 1 1/4, it was out 2 turns. Floatlevel was OK, just in the middle.

Timing set to 16-18* at idle and maximum at 3000 rpm was 30* with vacuum disconnected and plugged, should I try connecting to get my 36*?

Secondly, the choke doesn't want to release when the engine is warm. I know on eddys you can adjust the electric choke but again no manual
was included. Now I have to keep it open manually.

Tomorrow I will try coldstart again but I fear that the result will be the same because the small adjustments I have can't be the reason the engine
can't take the fuel when cold. I think moore and moore that the spark isn't good enough but OK for a warm engine. Can that be?

[flyinlow]

Electric chokes have to be adjusted to close the choke when cold, but not so tight that the choke plate cant open part way on engine start.

If you  turn on the ignition without starting the engine the choke will start heating .In about 5 minutes it should open. My Edelbrock electric chock is set at the full lean mark. Warm the engine for 30seconds then drive away. Experiment.

I noticed you grounded the choke to the carb. Are you getting a good ground this way?

Most  pump gasoline is blended for easier starting in the winter, it evaporates faster. Unfortunatly it is also blended for fuel injected engines ,which make the chokes job harder.

[Belgium R/T -68]

The problem is the engine don't want any choke although it's freezing. Maybe the grounding of the choke is the problem it doesn't open.

[Steve P.]

WOW, Flyinlow said everything I was going to say.


Per, It does sound as though you DO NOT have a ground for the choke or that your power TO the choke is not present all the time. A simple test light will tell answer both questions. Also you NEED 12 Volts at the choke stat. If you have tapped into a resistor wire it could be working against you on both accounts. Poor choke and poor ignition.

I have only set up a few aftermarket electric chokes as I don't like them. Open horn or solid wired open when I lived in the icy North. They just don't work the same through all the temp differences and can run perfect one day and load the plugs the next. For me it's a manual choke or NO choke.

Do those tests and let us know.


Also, full advance should be higher than 30* BTDC @ 2500-3000 RPM. 34-5* should feel good to your motor. Checking and setting your ignition curve comes later. Let's get it up and running now..  

[firefighter3931]

Timing set to 16-18* at idle and maximum at 3000 rpm was 30* with vacuum disconnected and plugged, should I try connecting to get my 36*?

If you have heavy springs in the distributor it might not be at full advance at 3000 rpm. try revving the engine to 3800-4000 and see if there is more advance coming in at those rpms.


It sounds like your engine doesn't like a choke....i've never used one, myself.



Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

Will do some moore testing tomorrow  guys, thanks for the inputs so far.

BTW, the choke is hooked up to the wipermotor. I was told that was a common way.

[Steve P.]

Per, before you try to start the motor tomorrow, test the choke setting. Mark the choke body and housing in it's present position. Loosen the three screws that hold the choke housing to the body and turn the choke housing to the LEAN side until the choke butterfly is just in the closed position and lock down the three screws.

Now check to see that you have a good ground on the choke (-) side.

Now clamp the test light on that ground, turn on the key to the run position and test the (+) side  of the choke. (Do this quickly so you don't heat the choke).

If these things check out good move to the next step.


Start the motor and with a voltage tester read the voltage going into the choke. This must be 12 Volts or more.
If not, shut down the motor. Change the pos. wire to a jumper going directly to the battery. Restart and test for power. Watch the choke. It should open completely within 4 -5 minutes on the coldest day.

Make sure you don't leave the jumper wire hooked to the battery when the motor is not running unless you are doing testing.

[flyinlow]

The problem I run into with the electric choke is if you shut off a warm engine ,it resets closed in about 10 minutes. You come out to start the car with an engine that is still warm with a choke that is on and not needed. With todays gas and unheated intake manifolds that we use, a manual choke is probably a good choice.

One way to clean plugs is with a propane torch. Set plugs on a metal plate or fire brick and heat the electrodes until they just start to glow. They should burn clean in a short time. Let them cool,inspeck for any ceramic damage, if o.k. reinstall. This is how the engine keeps them clean.

After you get your tuning done , and the fouling problem is solved, buy a set of NGK's   

Craig

[firefighter3931]

The problem I run into with the electric choke is if you shut off a warm engine ,it resets closed in about 10 minutes. You come out to start the car with an engine that is still warm with a choke that is on and not needed.
Craig

This has been my experience with chokes on hot rod engines....chokes are a pain in the AZZ ! More often than not they cause problems by richening up the idle mixture and leaving it there for too long leading to plug fouling problems. Sure it's more difficult to start a cold engine without a choke but it's simply a matter of feathering the throttle to keep the engine running for the first minute or two before it settles down into an nice smooth idle. 

After you get your tuning done , and the fouling problem is solved, buy a set of NGK's  

I agree....the NGK v-power plugs work great, start up easier and stay clean for a long time. For a pump gas build the XR5 is an excellent choice. Heat range is important....if the plug is too cold it will be prone to fouling and the engine will be cold blooded (difficult to start). The AC R43S is too cold a plug for your application, inmo. I've recommended this plug to several members and the feedback has allways been overwhelmingly positive....Easier starts, no fouling, sharper throttle response etc.... 


http://www.glowplugs.com/more_info.asp?AAIA=&pid=2552




Ron

[Belgium R/T -68]

Problem was bad connection on the plus side of the chokewire, it was just put into the bulkheadconnector for the wiper.
Sometimes contact, sometimes not. Since I knew the choke was the issue todays coldstart was a piece of cake.
He wanted gasoline instead of flooding. Next step is a set of NGK, I promise.

Thanks again for all help. 

Per

[firefighter3931]

Well, that's good news ! Time to start tuning and install those NGK's ! 

Keep an eye on your current plugs to make sure the choke isn't fouling them up. 



Ron

[flyinlow]

 

  Spring  is coming! Then we can put the chokes away.