PPG K38 Paint Help.........

[69 OUR/TEA]

Seems everybody else in here has the answer for him so I'll stay out of this conversation from this point on. LATER.

     

. Better use a 1.4 for smoothness. Have fun. LEON.         

make up your mind

[hemi-hampton]

I was being sarcastic with the 1.4 comment.

[83CHARGER2.2]

Hey Kevin,  This seems odd that you are having these problems and so many folks are arguing back and forth over the situation.  I have a good friend who IS a PPG rep and he indicated to me that in the south, where are temps are hot, it is obvious that a bigger tip gun is needed to spray in a hotter environment.  A 1.8 is a standard spray tip for a primer gun.  If some folks are using  a GTI with a 1.5, well then that setup in a GTI Devilbliss may be a good combo, but a 1.5 in a typical GRAVITY (BECAUSE NO ONE SPECIFIED WHAT THE GUN IN QUESTION WAS YET) feed a normal Clear tip. 

My PPG friend said that 1.8, with K38 is a perfect set up.  Normal spray pressure of 25 PSI or what ever the GUN not the P Sheet but the GUN requires at the tip, is what is to be used.

The Tech Sheet is just that.  A tech sheet, which is produced for IDEAL conditions, and as we know that is why chemicals need to be altered, as most do it yourself individuals do not have ideal conditions. 

It sounds like the correct gun, with the correct mixture and additional reduction as needed would cure your problem all together.  I have had to add reducer and even extender as I stated previously, to K38.  In nature K38 is a great FAST primer which is nothing more that K36 with more talc in it to produce a higher build.  Once finished with the Gallon of K38, try using DPS3055 which is a K36 type primer (ISO) that is slower to work with. My PPG Friend said that is why this product was created.   The PPG Tech line at 440.572.6100 can always help as well.

The best solution for most paint problems is experience and giving yourself an education so you do not have the same problem in the future.

[68mmcharger]

Thanks for the info 83CHARGER2.2.  I will contact the PPG tech lilne regarding a K38 reducer/extender.

Looks like I need to replace my Ingersoll Rand gun since there are no tip options for it. I have been looking at the Devilbliss FLG-653B Master Kit at tcpglobal.com. They have this setup for $229.00 which comes with a 1.3, 1.5, 1.8 and 2.2 mm tips, case and regulator. Does anyone know how this gun compares to Devilbliss's GTi-620G? The GTi is $359.00 with a 1.3, 1.4, 1.5 mm tip, case and regulator.

[68mmcharger]

Talked to the PPG tech line today. He said there was no extender available for K38 to extend pot life. Looks like I will just have to deal with the short pot life.

I ordered a Devilbliss GTI gun with the 3 tips tonight, hopefully I'll have it before this weekend. 1.5 is the max tip size in the set. Probably should have ordered the 1.8 at the same time but I'll try the 1.5 and see how it works.

I'll keep you guys updated.

[69 OUR/TEA]

Hey Kevin,
that's good,you'll be happy with that gun.One thing you can get for the GTI is the ziplock bag kit,works great,allows you to spray upside down and makes cleanup of the gun simple.I only use it when I am spraying paint,(base and clears),epoxy and sealers.Primer is just alittle too thick to get through the small plastic bushing that you install in the bottom of the gun with the bag.Also,a good starting point for you with the GTI when spraying primer,turn the fan control on top all the way in(clockwise),back out about 1/4 turn and try it there.That's around where I spray with for priming,yeah the fan pattern is'nt huge,and you'll have to go a little slower,but you should find it will work fine with the 1.5 tip.
  BTW,did the tech line  tell you to add reducer? Also,when you're all done with your stock of K38 try NCP271,I think you'll have found you're new favorite primer.Take care

[68mmcharger]

69 OUR/TEA - Thanks for the gun set up tips. The PPG tech line said there was a reducer but all it would do was extend the dry time, not the pot life. We didn't discuss which one since it did not provide what I was looking for.

Does the GTI have a strainer below the paint cup? If so, do you leave it in with K38.  My existing gun worked much better with the strainer removed but still not right.

Kevin

[69 OUR/TEA]

No strainer in this gun,take it out no matter what gun,and whatever you are spraying.Just strain the paint with the disposible strainers given to you from the paint store.Good luck Kevin.

[83CHARGER2.2]

Kevin,

Dont forget, a GTI is a finish gun, not a Primer Gun.  The GTI which was recommended by another post is a great gun, but a finish (Base clear) gun.  Nothing is said that you cannot use this to spray primer, but any one who knows up to date spray guns will tell you to use a primer gun to spray primer, and a finish gun (GTI) to spray top coats. 

A GTI's air cap atomizes the crap out of the material spray, eliminating most of the solvent in the spray procedure.  That is what I was getting at before in a preivous post.  A primer gun will leave the solvent in the mix to get it on the panel and to allow it to flow slightly.  The primer gun will also have a huge tip for the higher solids products.  A primer is a higher solids than a clear or definitely basecoat.  The basecoats and clears need the atomization at the tip of a gun like a GTI so that it removes those solvents at the spray procedure.  A primer does not have any where near the amount of solvent in it that a base coat color does, therefore the solvent in the primer, needs to stay in the primer so that you do not get extremely fast drying primer.

You may still have the problem with the GTI even with the BiG tip (1.8, 2.2, etc)  Good luck.  A perfect inexpensive primer gun is a Devilbliss finishline with a 2.0, or a Plus with a 1.8.  ( A plus can be also used for finish coats, but is not an HVLP Gun, but VOC Compliant).

There was a reason that Hemi-Hamptons' PPG chart put the GTI in the sealer category, because it is a topcoat gun.

Good Luck!

[hemi-hampton]

Wow, your the only guy to listen to me. I guess only you & me noticed the GTI was not listed on my chart in the primer surfacer category for a reason. The reason it was deleted & not a option is because the 1.5 is the biggest tip available it seems for that gun.  LEON.

[83CHARGER2.2]

Talked to the PPG tech line today. He said there was no extender available for K38 to extend pot life. Looks like I will just have to deal with the short pot life.

I ordered a Devilbliss GTI gun with the 3 tips tonight, hopefully I'll have it before this weekend. 1.5 is the max tip size in the set. Probably should have ordered the 1.8 at the same time but I'll try the 1.5 and see how it works.

I'll keep you guys updated.

Kevin,

Forgot to post this earlier but D886 is a universal extender for the entire Global line that will work fine in K38. My paint rep recomended this to me.

[68mmcharger]

I got in the GTI gun and used it to spray a couple of coats on the fenders with the 1.5 tip.  It works MUCH better that the IR gun with the 1.4 tip. It at least provides a steady spray and a smooth coat if I go slow. I will have to use it some more to decide if I move up to a larger tip.

Leon - Tips are available all the way up to 2.2 - $55.00 +shipping.

83Charger2.2 - Is there a recommended mix ratio for D886 with K38?

Your logic on the base/clear gun certainly makes a lot of sense. Is the atomization a function of the cap only vice the gun body? Looking at the Finishline 3 info it appears Devilbiss calls their guns a primer gun when you get into the 1.8 tip size range. Appears that the body is the same.

Kevin

[83CHARGER2.2]

Kevin,

I talked to my buddy who is a PPG rep again today.  He said, and I thought this was correct in my head but I wanted to confirm with him.  D886 which is in the Global PPG line and DX54 i nthe Delta Line are basically the same product. They are created to extend the pot life of a ISO CYANATE product.  In other words any ISO primer, clear, sealer, etc.  K38 is an Isocyanate primer and either the D886 or the DX54 extends the pot life.  The mix ratio is 1.5 ounces to Ready to spray quart.  So, 1.5 ounces per 32 ounces of mixed (primer and hardener mixed together) primer. 

The guns I know about,  the GTI is again, a great topcoat gun, but not a primer gun.  The air cap is specific per gun.  So they are not interchangable like the nozzle.  The needle has such a taper in a GTI that it can accept various sizes of tips or nozzles, but the air cap is specific per Devilbliss gun.  Prior to the GTI millenium, there was a straight GTI which took a No. 100 air cap, again different than your GTI millenium.   Hope this helps.

[hemi-hampton]

  hhmmmm, Isn't that what I said/implied LEON.

[Todd Wilson]

 

[Charger-Bodie]

hhmmmm, Isn't that what I said/implied LEON.

Not that I read anywhere. 

Leon,

Why do you have such a strong NEED to be right about this, by making someone else wrong?

There are many guns that can do the job and many ways to do it!

Its not like the primer is going to turn into water if you use a gun thats mainly used for top coats. If it works use it!

And again about the additives, I will not use them unless its ABSOLUTELY necessary, There is always a negative risk involved with extenders and accelerators.....Thats why they don't list them in the P-pages (tech sheet) with the primer , because in most cases they are a band-aid.

To anyone reading this thread:
           ALWAYS use the product as recommended in the tech sheet unless ABSOLUTELY necessary!!!!!! If you follow the recommendations of the the people who designed the product (especially the mix ratios) you will be far less likely to have problems with the product!!!

Kevin,

I talked to my buddy who is a PPG rep again today. He said, and I thought this was correct in my head but I wanted to confirm with him. D886 which is in the Global PPG line and DX54 i nthe Delta Line are basically the same product. They are created to extend the pot life of a ISO CYANATE product. In other words any ISO primer, clear, sealer, etc. K38 is an Isocyanate primer and either the D886 or the DX54 extends the pot life. The mix ratio is 1.5 ounces to Ready to spray quart. So, 1.5 ounces per 32 ounces of mixed (primer and hardener mixed together) primer.

The guns I know about, the GTI is again, a great topcoat gun, but not a primer gun. The air cap is specific per gun. So they are not interchangable like the nozzle. The needle has such a taper in a GTI that it can accept various sizes of tips or nozzles, but the air cap is specific per Devilbliss gun. Prior to the GTI millenium, there was a straight GTI which took a No. 100 air cap, again different than your GTI millenium. Hope this helps.

He said she said! Do you have any of you're own real world experience you would like to share USING any of these products or USING any spray guns applying any of these products?

Ill bet if you ask you're rep , he'll say to only use the additives as a last resort.

[hemi-hampton]

I keep saying he needs a Primer gun. You dont use a top coat gun & then use that same gun for Primer. The 2 guns are used seperastely. Heres what you do to be more Specific. You buy a $300-$600 base coat gun, you then buy a $300-$600 clear coat gun, You then buy a cheap $50 Primer gun. The base gun only used for base, the clear gun only used for clear, the primer gun only used for primer. You dont waste $300 on a Primer gun, Thats Stupid. Primer guns dont last long & you dont want to keep replacing them at $300 a pop. I prime not just one panel at a time but Complete cars with K-38 with my cheap $50 2.0 tip gun & in 90 degree heat & have no problem. I dont have A/C in the spray booth. Use a smaller tip in Primer gun to use/spray the thinner sealer. This is just my opinion but if you do things this way you'll have no problem, I dont. LEON.


P.S. I use Sata Jet guns.

[hemi-hampton]

Here's a example of complete car primed in K-38.

[hemi-hampton]

After Blocking & ready again for 2nd time around. If someone having a problem priming a fender while I do copmplete cars something is wrong. For one thing just use a white filter/strainer & never use one in the gun fior Priming, thats was a big part of your Problem. Most I know dont even strain there primer at all. LEON.

[Charger-Bodie]

I keep saying he needs a Primer gun. You dont use a top coat gun & then use that same gun for Primer. The 2 guns are used seperastely. Heres what you do to be more Specific. You buy a $300-$600 base coat gun, you then buy a $300-$600 clear coat gun, You then buy a cheap $50 Primer gun. The base gun only used for base, the clear gun only used for clear, the primer gun only used for primer. You dont waste $300 on a Primer gun, Thats Stupid. Primer guns dont last long & you dont want to keep replacing them at $300 a pop. I prime not just one panel at a time but Complete cars with K-38 with my cheap $50 2.0 tip gun & in 90 degree heat & have no problem. I dont have A/C in the spray booth. Use a smaller tip in Primer gun to use/spray the thinner sealer. This is just my opinion but if you do things this way you'll have no problem, I dont. LEON.


P.S. I use Sata Jet guns.

I just so happen to use worn topcoat guns for primer , when they aren't good enough for clear anymore I use them for primer and it works fine for me! Is this the only way to do it ? NO! but its one way and thats the problem with this thread is that you (LEON) seem to think that the only way it can possibly be done is YOU'RE way! and it simply is not the case!! There is more than one way to skin a cat !

And, by the way Ive shot primer with our GTI mil. and it works great for that.

P.S. I have Sata , Devilbiss , and Iwata guns!

[hemi-hampton]

I could post hundreds of Pics of cars I've done in Various priming stages & resto stages But I really dont think people want to be bored with such things as all my k-38 & other primer pics. LEON.

[hemi-hampton]

NO, I''ll agree many different ways of doing it. I'm saying this is what works for me. What I think would be best, if possible is being able to try both ways, the GTI 1.5 way & then my cheap Sharpe 2.0 way & then decide what works best for you & go with that. If it's your way then fine. My way fine. I dont care, just trying to help the guy out. LEON.

[tan top]

I keep saying he needs a Primer gun. You dont use a top coat gun & then use that same gun for Primer. The 2 guns are used seperastely. Heres what you do to be more Specific. You buy a $300-$600 base coat gun, you then buy a $300-$600 clear coat gun, You then buy a cheap $50 Primer gun. The base gun only used for base, the clear gun only used for clear, the primer gun only used for primer. You dont waste $300 on a Primer gun, Thats Stupid. Primer guns dont last long & you dont want to keep replacing them at $300 a pop. I prime not just one panel at a time but Complete cars with K-38 with my cheap $50 2.0 tip gun & in 90 degree heat & have no problem. I dont have A/C in the spray booth. Use a smaller tip in Primer gun to use/spray the thinner sealer. This is just my opinion but if you do things this way you'll have no problem, I dont. LEON.

P.S. I use Sata Jet guns. 

yep i agree            one for  base coat , one for clear coat  &  a cheepy  with a big fluid tip & air cap for primer . ..been painting  18 years   my self  ...   & been using sata guns since the NR 95  came out .   

[hemi-hampton]

Thanks Tan Top, looks like were on the same page . LEON.

[Charger-Bodie]

I keep saying he needs a Primer gun. You dont use a top coat gun & then use that same gun for Primer. The 2 guns are used seperastely. Heres what you do to be more Specific. You buy a $300-$600 base coat gun, you then buy a $300-$600 clear coat gun, You then buy a cheap $50 Primer gun. The base gun only used for base, the clear gun only used for clear, the primer gun only used for primer. You dont waste $300 on a Primer gun, Thats Stupid. Primer guns dont last long & you dont want to keep replacing them at $300 a pop. I prime not just one panel at a time but Complete cars with K-38 with my cheap $50 2.0 tip gun & in 90 degree heat & have no problem. I dont have A/C in the spray booth. Use a smaller tip in Primer gun to use/spray the thinner sealer. This is just my opinion but if you do things this way you'll have no problem, I dont. LEON.

P.S. I use Sata Jet guns. 

   

yep i agree            one for  base coat , one for clear coat  &  a cheepy  with a big fluid tip & air cap for primer . ..been painting  18 years   my self  ...   & been using sata guns since the NR 95  came out .   

I not saying You shouldnt have a dedicated primer gun, But it dont have to be a cheapy! a good older paint gun works well too!

P.S. The first complete paint I sprayed was when I was 11 years old in 1982 ....I was born into My Dads body shop , Its ALL Ive ever done period.