WARNING! DANGER! If you are or will run a flat tappet cam read this!!!

[ACUDANUT]

 I need a price check-in for GM's  EOS. Thanks...I am going to have to buy a case it looks like. 

[firefighter3931]

Here's a link to 20 samples of Mobile 1 test results, and they all show zinc and phosphorous.  Why do you say your Mobile 1 has never had zinc in it?

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

Yes those tests confirm that Zn/Phos is present in the "current" formulations but those levels are inadequate for flat tappet cams. The old formulations (before the EPA mandated BS reduction) had 1400 ppm zinc/phosphorus and therein lies the dilemma. That chart is difinitive proof that anyone running a flat tappet cam needs an EP additive or they risk destroying their hard earned investment.



Ron

[62 Max]

Here's a link to 20 samples of Mobile 1 test results, and they all show zinc and phosphorous.  Why do you say your Mobile 1 has never had zinc in it?

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

Yes those tests confirm that Zn/Phos is present in the "current" formulations but those levels are inadequate for flat tappet cams. The old formulations (before the EPA mandated BS reduction) had 1400 ppm zinc/phosphorus and therein lies the dilemma. That chart is difinitive proof that anyone running a flat tappet cam needs an EP additive or they risk destroying their hard earned investment.



Ron

Ron,

If "you" ran this oil only,would "you" still use an addative?


The Penn-Grade 1® oils "typical" 1,500 ppm Zinc (Zn) and 1340-1400 ppm Phosphorus (P)

[AKcharger]

...The Penn-Grade 1® oils "typical" 1,500 ppm Zinc (Zn) and 1340-1400 ppm Phosphorus (P)

Must be an "off-road only" oil at those levels.

[y3chargerrt]

Price check for GM EOS. I just bought a pint for 25 bucks! Yikes

[62 Max]

...The Penn-Grade 1® oils "typical" 1,500 ppm Zinc (Zn) and 1340-1400 ppm Phosphorus (P)

Must be an "off-road only" oil at those levels.

Not really.
http://www.bradpennracing.com/

http://www.bradpennracing.com/racingoilline.html

[firefighter3931]

Here's a link to 20 samples of Mobile 1 test results, and they all show zinc and phosphorous.  Why do you say your Mobile 1 has never had zinc in it?

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

Yes those tests confirm that Zn/Phos is present in the "current" formulations but those levels are inadequate for flat tappet cams. The old formulations (before the EPA mandated BS reduction) had 1400 ppm zinc/phosphorus and therein lies the dilemma. That chart is difinitive proof that anyone running a flat tappet cam needs an EP additive or they risk destroying their hard earned investment.



Ron

Ron,

If "you" ran this oil only,would "you" still use an addative?


The Penn-Grade 1® oils "typical" 1,500 ppm Zinc (Zn) and 1340-1400 ppm Phosphorus (P)

Max, if BP is indeed 1400-1500 ppm Zn/Phos then i would have no problem using it without an EP additive. 

I've seen conflicting VOA results regarding BP oil.....some show 800-900 while others show what you are reporting. 

Mobil 1 15/50 synthetic was at one point in the 1400-1500 ppm range but has since been reduced. The Mobil 1 "motorcycle" 15/50 is supposed to have lots of EP goodies at the present time....perhaps because motorcycle lube is not held to the same standards as regular passenger car oil. 

Overall, I find the situation frustrating... to say the least ! 



Ron

[62 Max]

Here's a link to 20 samples of Mobile 1 test results, and they all show zinc and phosphorous.  Why do you say your Mobile 1 has never had zinc in it?

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

Yes those tests confirm that Zn/Phos is present in the "current" formulations but those levels are inadequate for flat tappet cams. The old formulations (before the EPA mandated BS reduction) had 1400 ppm zinc/phosphorus and therein lies the dilemma. That chart is definitive proof that anyone running a flat tappet cam needs an EP additive or they risk destroying their hard earned investment.



Ron

Ron,

If "you" ran this oil only,would "you" still use an additive?


The Penn-Grade 1® oils "typical" 1,500 ppm Zinc (Zn) and 1340-1400 ppm Phosphorus (P)

Max, if BP is indeed 1400-1500 ppm Zn/Phos then i would have no problem using it without an EP additive. 

I've seen conflicting VOA results regarding BP oil.....some show 800-900 while others show what you are reporting. 

Mobil 1 15/50 synthetic was at one point in the 1400-1500 ppm range but has since been reduced. The Mobil 1 "motorcycle" 15/50 is supposed to have lots of EP goodies at the present time....perhaps because motorcycle lube is not held to the same standards as regular passenger car oil. 

Overall, I find the situation frustrating... to say the least ! 



Ron

Ron,I can get an unbiased independent analysis of the BP oil.I have 6 cases and I send our oil samples for our fleet of 50 diesel trucks to http://www.staveleyna.com/public/FLhome.asp for analysis.I can have a sample in the mail on Monday.Usually have results in three days.No comparasion with any one else,just real time analysis.
This I will do and post the results.

[ACUDANUT]

Price check for GM EOS. I just bought a pint for 25 bucks! Yikes

***25.00 bucks for a pint That's crazy 

[Ghoste]

Not as crazy as buying a new cam.

[62 Max]

Not as crazy as buying a new cam.

After all the talk about losing a cam,I would really like to know how many out of the thousands sold how many really did.

[firefighter3931]

Ron,I can get an unbiased independent analysis of the BP oil.I have 6 cases and I send our oil samples for our fleet of 50 diesel trucks to http://www.staveleyna.com/public/FLhome.asp for analysis.I can have a sample in the mail on Monday.Usually have results in three days.No comparasion with any one else,just real time analysis.
This I will do and post the results.

That would be awesome Max ! Thank you !!! 


It would be fantastic to see some "current" results. I've heard nothing but GOOD about the Brad Penn racing oil 



Ron

[firefighter3931]

Price check for GM EOS. I just bought a pint for 25 bucks! Yikes

***25.00 bucks for a pint That's crazy 

Last year i purchased 2 cases (24 pints) at $6.00 each. There must be an online supplier that won't bend you over...whoever sold it to you at that price sure is ! 



Ron

[y3chargerrt]

My local Gm dealer sold it to me. Last spring I think i was $16.00. Bastards!

[ACUDANUT]

 Ron, where can I find a case that cheap...$6.00 a pint ??

[General_01]

Ron,I can get an unbiased independent analysis of the BP oil.I have 6 cases and I send our oil samples for our fleet of 50 diesel trucks to http://www.staveleyna.com/public/FLhome.asp for analysis.I can have a sample in the mail on Monday.Usually have results in three days.No comparasion with any one else,just real time analysis.
This I will do and post the results.

That would be awesome Max ! Thank you !!! 


It would be fantastic to see some "current" results. I've heard nothing but GOOD about the Brad Penn racing oil 



Ron

I agree. That would be a great service for everyone on the board 62. Thanks.

[Ghoste]

Not as crazy as buying a new cam.

After all the talk about losing a cam,I would really like to know how many out of the thousands sold how many really did.

I only know of three that it happened to personally but I can add that there is only one that I actually care about (if you know what I mean).

[General_01]

Usually when something like that happens, I am not to concerned with how many times per thousand cams it happened to. Just that it happened to my cam and now I gotta pull it. Just as Ghoste has alluded to.

[Runner]

i lost a cam that had been fine for 10 years.   im pretty gun shy on the camshafter and oil issues now

[maxwellwedge]

I use Joe Gibbs oil in all my old Mopes. A lot of the others mentioned are good as well.

BR for break-in and "Hot Rod Oil" after that.  http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/hotrod/index.html

Nice blurb on oils   http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/Downloads/racingoil101.pdf

I know, I know - He races Toyota's - Don't matter to me. There was a rash of wiped cams the last few years from a bunch of engine builders I know. There is an old saying, " You can't not afford a good doctor or a good lawyer". Same goes for my cars....Super Cheap insurance at whatever price they are asking. 

[62 Max]

I use Joe Gibbs oil in all my old Mopes. A lot of the others mentioned are good as well.

BR for break-in and "Hot Rod Oil" after that.  http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/hotrod/index.html

Nice blurb on oils   http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/Downloads/racingoil101.pdf

I know, I know - He races Toyota's - Don't matter to me. There was a rash of wiped cams the last few years from a bunch of engine builders I know. There is an old saying, " You can't not afford a good doctor or a good lawyer". Same goes for my cars....Super Cheap insurance at whatever price they are asking. 

I would rather know who's oil it is.Don't think Joe has his own refinery.

[ted]

Check out www.bobistheoilguy.com   its quite a site dedicated to lubricants & there's a wealth of info on the passenger car rorum & racing forum.  I switched to Brad Penn 1 Racing Oil (the real 'green' oil that used to be Kendall GT1).  It has 1300 ppm of zinc & lots of phosphorus.  Valvonine VR1 is also high in zinc & highly rated.   Some tests they did that are on the site don't recommend additives since they compromise the formulas that the oils were designed with.  Check out the website.

and most of the regulars there say this is a non issue

[ted]

mobil says the current re-released 15-50 is over 1200ppm

[maxwellwedge]

I use Joe Gibbs oil in all my old Mopes. A lot of the others mentioned are good as well.

BR for break-in and "Hot Rod Oil" after that.  http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/hotrod/index.html

Nice blurb on oils   http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/Downloads/racingoil101.pdf

I know, I know - He races Toyota's - Don't matter to me. There was a rash of wiped cams the last few years from a bunch of engine builders I know. There is an old saying, " You can't not afford a good doctor or a good lawyer". Same goes for my cars....Super Cheap insurance at whatever price they are asking. 

I would rather know who's oil it is.Don't think Joe has his own refinery.

I think it is made by Motul out of Europe

[General_01]

Here's a link to 20 samples of Mobile 1 test results, and they all show zinc and phosphorous.  Why do you say your Mobile 1 has never had zinc in it?

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

Yes those tests confirm that Zn/Phos is present in the "current" formulations but those levels are inadequate for flat tappet cams. The old formulations (before the EPA mandated BS reduction) had 1400 ppm zinc/phosphorus and therein lies the dilemma. That chart is definitive proof that anyone running a flat tappet cam needs an EP additive or they risk destroying their hard earned investment.



Ron

Ron,

If "you" ran this oil only,would "you" still use an additive?


The Penn-Grade 1® oils "typical" 1,500 ppm Zinc (Zn) and 1340-1400 ppm Phosphorus (P)

Max, if BP is indeed 1400-1500 ppm Zn/Phos then i would have no problem using it without an EP additive. 

I've seen conflicting VOA results regarding BP oil.....some show 800-900 while others show what you are reporting. 

Mobil 1 15/50 synthetic was at one point in the 1400-1500 ppm range but has since been reduced. The Mobil 1 "motorcycle" 15/50 is supposed to have lots of EP goodies at the present time....perhaps because motorcycle lube is not held to the same standards as regular passenger car oil. 

Overall, I find the situation frustrating... to say the least ! 



Ron

Ron,I can get an unbiased independent analysis of the BP oil.I have 6 cases and I send our oil samples for our fleet of 50 diesel trucks to http://www.staveleyna.com/public/FLhome.asp for analysis.I can have a sample in the mail on Monday.Usually have results in three days.No comparasion with any one else,just real time analysis.
This I will do and post the results.

Hey Max, did you ever get results on the oil?