WARNING! DANGER! If you are or will run a flat tappet cam read this!!!

[AKcharger]

I was informed by firefighter and another pal about the importance of having a zinc additive added to your oil during initial cam break in. I used regular oil on my break in and began to panic so I wanted to get the story....and it is potentially catastrophic!

I called Valvoline this morning and spoke to Chris at their tech department and confirmend the story; zinc dithiophosphate (ZnDTP) levels were reduced by mandate of the EPA within the past year. He said regular oils now have less than 850 ppm ZnDTP but their diesel oils are still between 900 and 1000 PPM and their valvoline racing oil has 1300ppm because it's designed for off-road use.

OK, so that's the oil part, I then called Engle, the manufacturer of my cam  and spoke to Doug. I asked about the low zinc deal and asked if this was really something to worry about, he said YES. In fact he stated emphatically to use an additive not only during break-in but ALL THE TIME. he said the low ZnDTP will eat the cam/lifters and due to shavings floating around the engine...eventually the rest of the motor will go too.

So what to do?

- Use a Zinc additive. Engle suggests "justice brothers" and figherfighter suggests GM EOS or ZZDP plus
- My pal talked to Bullet racing cams (they custom ground his hemi cam) and they say any oil conforming to CI-4 rating (Diesel oil) offers adequate protection
- I haven't tried any additive yet so I can't make a recommendation...but feel free to add to this post

I can't believe this isn't getting press...or if it has I sure missed it.

P.S. my engine is OK 

[mally69]

Just for curiosity does that STP oil treatment in the little blue bottle have the zinc that is needed.?

[firefighter3931]

Bill, this is what happens when you don't have adequate oil protection additives :

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,46002.0.html


There are several race oils out there with added zinc/phos (royal purple racing/amsoil etc...) but those cost big $$. A good diesel oil like Rotella T 15/40 with an EP additive will work just as well. The Rotella used to have lots of the good stuff in it but that has now changed thanks to the EPA. 

The additives i would use include ; GM Engine oil supplement (EOS), Comp Cams breakin lube, or ZZDP plus.

Bill you dodged a bullet brother....don't take anymore chances. 




Ron

[MOPARHOUND!]

E.O.S. has been re-released by GM finally............at twice the price of course.  Bought some Monday at the local Buick dealer.

[mally69]

Oh jees. I ran my new engine for about 50 miles on NAPA 15-40. Maybe I should pull my valley pan and check my lobes.  I hope i didn't ruin anyting already.

[AKcharger]

An easier option would be change your oil and filter and then cut open your old filter and chek for contaminants, here's mine after 2 hours of running, a few slivers but otherwise good

[Dodge Don]

Thankfully Ron alerted me to this awhile ago and I went around buying up as much Rotella CL-4 as I could get my hands on and I have a stockpile of GM EOS as well. It was good timing as the old Rotella was being replaced with the new lower zinc stuff at the time so I grabbed every one I could find locally. In a few years when my stockpile is used up I'll switch to whatever high zinc racing oil is available and continue using GM EOS.

[bill440rt]

Just curious, but what if you run synthetic?? 

[AKcharger]

The valvoline guy said synthetics also conform to the new low lead criteria 

[Ghoste]

Does anyone have an update on the oil additive that Mopar Performance was working on?

[firefighter3931]

Just curious, but what if you run synthetic?? 

Royal Purple "racing" has lots of zinc/phos but it's $12 a quart. 

Mobil 1 motorcycle oil also has lots of the good stuff as well 


I like dinosaur oil with a little extra kick (EOS/Comp breakin lube or ZZDP plus) 




Ron

[1969chargerrtse]

I've put 2,000 miles on my rebuilt motor and used Valvoline ZR1 racing oil from day one.  It is listed as racing oil because it has the Zinc in it.  Please confirm this oil is o.k and I need to do nothing else? 

[firefighter3931]

I've put 2,000 miles on my rebuilt motor and used Valvoline ZR1 racing oil from day one.  It is listed as racing oil because it has the Zinc in it.  Please confirm this oil is o.k and I need to do nothing else? 

The VR-1 20/50 racing oil is descent but i would still add an EP additive. 



Ron

[FLG]

How can you tell the older better Rotella from the newer stuff? Local gas station has bottles that look like they been sitting for quite some time..so i may buy up a stock if its the older better stuff.

[firefighter3931]

How can you tell the older better Rotella from the newer stuff? Local gas station has bottles that look like they been sitting for quite some time..so i may buy up a stock if its the older better stuff.

Frank, the old Rotella 15/40 will have a CL-4 or CL-4 plus rating on the bottle. The new "reformulated" Rotella has a different rating and a sunburst logo on the bottle. It's still descent but the zinc/phos has dropped from 1400-1500 ppm down to 900-1000. Adding a bottle of the correct EP additive will get it back up to where it used to be if not slightly better. 



Ron

[toupee]

Alright, I'm lost.  So this problem applies to basically all non roller engines?  That's a lot of people.  And no company's have to make an announcement about this?  Seems like they would be setting themselves up for lawsuites from a bunch of vintage car buffs if motors start failing all over the place in the next few years.

[AKcharger]

Alright, I'm lost.  So this problem applies to basically all non roller engines?  That's a lot of people.  And no company's have to make an announcement about this?  Seems like they would be setting themselves up for lawsuites from a bunch of vintage car buffs if motors start failing all over the place in the next few years.

Well I'd like to agree but who would we sue? it would have to be the EPA and I'm sure they made like 100 flyers about it and that would leagally cover them. We have to face the fact we are an extreme minority and gov't and 99% of industry doesn't care about us or people who own 20+ Y/O cars

[toupee]

You're probably right.  Funny how things work.  Now, if you were talking about some sort of civil rights issue and we were the extreme minority I bet agencies/press would be falling over themselves to make sure everybody knew.

[mally69]

Just a queston, but what do most cars have in there for lifters today. Are they all roller?? What would my 4.7 in my dakota have in there.?

[Plumcrazy]

Just a queston, but what do most cars have in there for lifters today. Are they all roller?? What would my 4.7 in my dakota have in there.?

The 4.7 is an overhead cam design.  It has roller type cam followers.

[BrianShaughnessy]

I can't believe this isn't getting press...or if it has I sure missed it.

Old news for some of us.       But it helps to keep it up top... cause there's newbies all the time.

Frankly,  flat hydraulic cams are obsolete.   Hydraulic roller cam V6 / V8s have pretty much been standard since the mid 80's.    20 years is a long time to worry about zinc levels when they're not necessary for modern engines to survive and harmful to other components or emissions.       

Solid cams haven't been in a production car probably since '70 or '71 which pretty much makes them archaic... but they're still fun! 

I'm pretty sure the near future will see the camshaft itself is archaic and replaced by computer driven solenoids as standard.   

[FLG]

Ron just bought a quart, they have both ratings on the bottle 

[bordin34]

Does Ci-4 still have enough ZDDP in it. I bought 5 quarts of Ci-4 plus Mobil Delvac because they are now becoming CJ-4. Also, I just bought 2 quarts of Ci-4 Ford oil at walmart.

[RallyeMike]

Well, I'll add my story: Two flat cam lobes and crap that fouled up a piston skirt likely as a result. Complete tear down, hone, and rebuild with new pistons, cam and bearings. Just got the engine back in the car today. It had about 600-700 (hard) miles on it. I was using Mobil 1 20-50W, which a couple years ago was fine. Did not realize the formula had changed once again since I last checked it out.  I need to pay more attention to this crap !

[firefighter3931]

Well, I'll add my story: Two flat cam lobes and crap that fouled up a piston skirt likely as a result. Complete tear down, hone, and rebuild with new pistons, cam and bearings. Just got the engine back in the car today. It had about 600-700 (hard) miles on it. I was using Mobil 1 20-50W, which a couple years ago was fine. Did not realize the formula had changed once again since I last checked it out.  I need to pay more attention to this crap !

Mike, why not run a solid cam and use the EDM lifters with priority lobe oiling. In an application like yours that would be my preferance. 



Ron