440 Rebuild HOT STREET!!!

[Charger_Martin]

So could this be made with my 440? Like the article says or is it alot of work extra which they do not write?

Or is it that easy to just change the parts and thats it?

[Musicman]

On a dyno, this combo made 527 hp and 557 lb-ft. The peak horsepower was achieved at 5,600 rpm, and the peak torque occurred at 4,100 rpm, making over 500 lb-ft from 2,900 rpm all the way to 5,500 rpm. In fact, the average torque throughout the entire pull was 529 lb-ft. Even with all that power, it still pulled 12 in-Hg at an idle, just perfect for the street.

I ran this build in my PC and produced the following...

Peak Torque was 526 @ 4100
Peak HP was 487 @ 5500
12.5" Vac @ Idle

Average Torque was 493 from 3000 to 5500

This was assuming a good set of headers and a quality exhaust system was in place, as would be on the vehicle.
Assuming a good set of headers and an OPEN exhaust produced 538 TQ and 497 HP.

Of course there are a host of components which are not mentioned in the article that would effect the final numbers. The use of electric fuel pumps and fans for instance would increase the numbers, low tension rings etc, etc,etc.. Still, all-in-all a very nice alternative 

[Charger_Martin]

Well, you can do a decent build if you go for around 450 horsepower that will be a lot more economical than 500-550 horsepower, good bang for the buck ,  a street combo that I kind of wanted to do:   

   the aluminum stealth heads from 440source website, 900 bucks, this lets you have higher compression while running pump gas,
  get an engle K58 or K56 cam, work great in 440's says firefighter, (can I quote you firefighter?)
use an edelbrock RPM performer dual plane intake, and an eddlebrock or similar 750 cfm carb,  buy some mopar performance rods and some decent forged pistons, and go for a zero quench deck lid, (this is determined by the head gaskets and the height the pistons will go up to the heads,   this combo will give you maybe 450 horsepower?  and you won't have to build up transmission and rearend and change a bunch of other stuff like a 550 horsepower engine will need,  lots of tire roasting power with 450 horsepower,   ,  get the block you have bored if necessary, get all the parts, and find someone who will put it together for you,  would be close to 4000 probably, except for the high labor it sounds like you might have to pay for the machine shop over there, 
  or look into a crate engine and take your chances on the quality of the assembly, and have it shipped to you,

So you would perfer the aluminum stealth heads from 440source instead of Edelbrock 84cc (which I have read that alot of guys use) Would that be a better choice?

And the Engle K56 cam instead of comp and those other brands?


450 hp would be more than enough for now I guess. So is the heads + cam all I need to get or should I get pistons,rods ++++ or is that not necessary?

Already have new exhaust,headers,intake,carb so that something I don`t need.

Please help me out here guys. Going to buy/order heads and cam this week.

[SeattleCharger]

well, I am sort of new at all this, but from what I have learned from this site, the engle K58 is probably the best for a 440, K56 is bigger and would have more high rpm horspower, but less responsive low end, not as streetable and would require higher stall converter and lower rearend gears, you are probably better off with the K58,
as for the heads, the thing about the stealth heads is they are cheaper, AND, the spark plugs come out straight just like the original heads, but the eddlebrock heads have slanted spark plugs and make getting in a couple plugs just about impossible without customizing your headers,
  they have about the same specs, 84cc flow, same dimensions, etc., but different price and different spark plug angle, I would go with the stealth for those reasons.
  I would recomend new rods and forged pistons,   the rods will be lighter and stronger, and make it easier for the rotating assembly to speed up in revolutions with the less weight,  mopar performance rods from 440source? not sure,  actually I don't really know for sure the advantage to new pistons other than that they are lighter and stronger,  maybe someone else can chime in and explain this better or recommend the piston/rod thing for you,

[john108]

Hi
I am no expert either but the K-58 has more duration and greater lift then the K-56, Therefore, I think the K-58 is "Bigger"

[SeattleCharger]

Hi
I am no expert either but the K-58 has more duration and greater lift then the K-56, Therefore, I think the K-58 is "Bigger"

oops,  thanks

  anyways, go with the K58,  streetable and produce good power, but you probably shouldn't go bigger than that without higher stall and lower rear gears,

[Musicman]

What years is your existing block, is it the original 69? If so then compression should not be an issue, just freshen up the pistons with some new rings etc, and check the cylinder bores etc.
You say that you already have headers, what size and type are they? 1-3/4 or 1-7/8 Dia. with 35" or 36" runners would be best.
If you want to keep your performance power in the 3000 to 5000 rpm range then I wouldn't get to excited about a big cam. All you need is a good cam with a little snap to it. The Lunati Voodoo 60302 would be a good choice for a mild build in this rpm range, plenty of vacuum at idle, with just enough of a lope to let you know it's there without getting rude. The Lunati 60303 would be your next step up, but you want to move up to a 2800 stall with this one. Personally, I would stick with the 60302... it's slightly better on low end performance.
Heads... Edelbrock or Stealth heads would make a good choice. The Edelbrocks flow slightly better out of the box, but they do cost a bit more. You will be running a mild cam, so the differences here are rather minor in my opinion. Myself I would opt for the cheaper Stealth heads and save the extra cash for a good quality valve job and maybe some 10 degree locks & keepers for piece of mind.
Intake... This would be a street build, so stick with a dual plane design for better low end performance. The Eddy Performer & Performer RPM are both good choices here. The RPM will give you slightly better high end performance, but the Performer's low end boost will get you to the top quicker... you have to decide which is more important to you. You also want to remember that the RPM manifold is a little taller. This is not normally an issue, but it is something to keep in mind.
Carburetor... Everyone has their own particular favorites... an Eddy Thunder Series 800 CFM unit would make a nice street kit, but there are a lot of other "really great alternatives" out there as well.

Bottom line... You need to pay the most attention to your heads and your exhaust. These two pieces will make or break a mild street build. Obviously all of the puzzle pieces must work together for a successful build, but your heads and your exhaust are the foundation in a street build such as this.  There's lots of little things you can do to improve performance too, like pulling that old radiator fan off and placing a good electric puller on the back of the radiator (no pushers)

Of course, you know what they say, opinions are like @$$holes, everybody has one.... This one is mine, I'm sure others will follow.

[Charger_Martin]

It is a original 69 block.  I think I will go for the 440 source stealth  heads, but then its cam,rods and forged pistons to find out.

[Musicman]

Well, if you factor in the cost of the heads & bolts, the Cam & Lifter kit, Intake manifold & Carburetor, new rings etc... your probably looking at $1900 American... add to that the head work etc.      You might have enough left over for rods and pistons if necessary 

[firefighter3931]

Don't forget about Machining costs....quality machinework isn't cheap. 



Ron

[Musicman]

Don't forget about Machining costs....quality machinework isn't cheap. 

Ron

Yup... as Ron has stated here... machining costs will be a major factor if you start getting carried away. All said and done your already looking at over $2000 just for the basics components and supporting odds and ends, like nuts bolts, lubricants, etc... Then there's shipping costs, taxes, etc... it all adds up pretty quick. I wouldn't do any more than I had to if I were in your position. After all, a $4000 budget will disappear into an engine block real quick... it's not a lot to work with. The last thing you want to do is get half way through a poorly planned build and then suddenly realize you can't afford to finish it. Do all your planning up front start to finish, and see where it takes you. Strive to do the best you can utilizing whatever you have.

[G-man]

30 000 or so for 600hp...

I got something even cheaper for you then a Hemi.

440ci - 512ci stroker.

850 Horsepower - $16 000AU dollars.

[Charger_Martin]

So would you guys rather get the Lunati Voodoo 60302 or the K58?

Or would COMP have some good cams instead?

What lifters should I get with the  cam?

And which cam fits the 440source stealth heads best?

I will get the 440source stealth heads, but do I need to get the ported heads? They cost twice as much.

I would only need rocker arms & shafts, head bolts with the heads and nothing else??

Does anyone think that this is a bad choice to make? Rather Edelbrock rpm heads??

If not I will go for these heads but still needs some advice.

[Musicman]

So would you guys rather get the Lunati Voodoo 60302 or the K58?

2 completely different animals, requiring different support components...  The mild Lunati 60302 is a good street cam, the more aggressive Engle K58 is a good Street/Strip cam. As such, different components are required to maximize their potential.

[SeattleCharger]

You want a bad engine, but don't want to spend a fortune.  The K-58 is going to be more of a hot rod cam.  Don't get the heads that cost twice as much, stealth heads good enough.  Every part of the engine you could upgrade ten times up in cost and performance, but what you are getting is bang for your buck, from stock to upgrading some key things significantly enough to get big difference,  just get some mopar performance rods and decent forged pistons.  Do a zero quench build,            As you upgrade more and more, you start paying more and more for slighter increases in power,  the curve goes up, you know?   450 hp will be a blast, don't worry, and will sound like a hot rod, not a race car, but will be a bad machine none the less 
  read through these threads:    You might save the links into a wordpad file for future reference:
   

                  http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,21349.0.html     (cam thread)

          and this one:

                       http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,22562.30.html    440 Engine build with 440 source aluminum heads, all info for quench height , break in, etc. 


                      http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=34087.new;topicseen#new   new440sourceheads and "cam" info with HP EXHAUST and CH4B intake
           

                                http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,10041.0.html   (cam, Hughes, Engle)

              http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,28602.0.html  440 engine build with alum. Heads/ specs/ qu. Mi. times,


                     http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33451.0.html    440 engine builds and links for about 500 hp with aluminum heads
                 

   

[gordo1968charger]

are you in the uk?if so i know of a good builder,mopar specialist,runs a 9 second gtx,so its safe to say he knows what hes doing,hes doing mine when/if  the cash is available

[Musicman]

Go with the Stealth heads... NO you do not need the ported heads, they cost more and you are trying to conserve your resources remember. Save the money for a good valve job and a set of upgraded locks & keepers.

If you go for a larger cam like the Engle K58 or Lunati 60304, you will see slightly better high end performance with properly matched components, but you will also be looking at the addition of some extra items like a new torque converter as well... which is even more money.

Like we said in the beginning...  Performance costs money... How fast do you want to go?
In your case it's more about bang for the buck, and what you can afford on a limited budget.

[Charger_Martin]

450 hp will be good enough for me.

Not looking for a STRIP/RACECAR but a streetcar that has BALLS. Don`t want a bad engine, since that would cost alot with upgrading brakes,gear,rear etc..


Im thinking about getting a new converter, but the one I have seems to fit good right now.

Then I will get the complete 440source stealth heads + rods & forged pistons.

Just the cam and lifters left.

Summit sells the Lunati Voodoo 60302, should I get that cam? Seems like the k58 is too much for my block?

[SeattleCharger]

I like musicman's idea of the lunati now that I read more and see his reasoning.    You don't really need more high end for the stree that much, a 440 is a torque monster, don't need to rev em up to high rpm's,   saves the money of the torque converter and the other parts he mentioned.

[Musicman]

450 hp will be good enough for me.

Not looking for a STRIP/RACECAR but a streetcar that has BALLS. Don`t want a bad engine, since that would cost alot with upgrading brakes,gear,rear etc..


Im thinking about getting a new converter, but the one I have seems to fit good right now.

Then I will get the complete 440source stealth heads + rods & forged pistons.

Just the cam and lifters left.

Summit sells the Lunati Voodoo 60302, should I get that cam? Seems like the k58 is too much for my block?

This will be a 450 hp street build... with that in mind, do you really feel it's necessary to replace your existing rods and pistons? I don't, not as long as they are in good shape and the cylinder bores check out. The 68 block already had a 10+ compression ratio... A new setup would be nice of course if you had the extra cash flow, but I wouldn't consider it necessary. A good street build will be putting the power out there in the 3000 to 5000 rpm range, so extra strong lightweight high rev components are not absolutely required.
Furthermore, since the engine will be operating within a normal street rpm range, Anti-Pump lifters will not be required, but they are highly desirable. Most Cams like the Lunati and others can be purchased with standard lifters as a kit, reducing the overall cost of buying the components separately. If you want Anti-Pump lifters like the Lunati Micro-Trol lifters they will have to be purchased separately driving the overall cost up about $50 over a kit.
Converters... A mild cam like the 60302 (which is the next step up from a stock Mopar Magnum cam), does not require a stepped up torque converter, but that is not to say that you wouldn't benefit from using one. Again nice to have but not a necessity in this case. If you did decide to go with a new converter at some stage of the game, I would suggest that you contact the manufacture before purchasing one and let them help you decide which stage would be best suited to your engine.

[Musicman]

Forgot to mention... Since you have decided to go with the Stealth heads.... Be sure to order the ROL's head gaskets that 440source sells to go with them... This is a necessity as far as I'm concerned. The larger bore diameter of the ROL gasket is better suited to the Stealth head, and a requirement in some cases.

Side items like the 10 degree locks & keepers, and anti-pump lifters do add a small amount to the cost of the build, and it's true that they may not be a requirement in this instance, but they do go a long way toward peace of mind if you can afford them.

[firefighter3931]

The stealth heads are fine for a 450hp build and with that cam i would be looking at a 3000 stall and 3.55-3.91 gears.

Like Mike says the stock rods and crank are fine....i would be looking to upgrade the pistons though. The factory ratings were often generous in terms of compression....most 10:1 motors were closer to 9:1 in reality.



Ron

[Musicman]

True enough there Ron, and new pistons would be nice... I was simply looking at it from the budget standpoint, figuring the smaller closed chamber of the Stealth heads would take up the slack a bit on the compression, good enough for a pump gas build anyway.

[Charger_Martin]

Cool, so then I should get the mild Lunati 60302 cam with the stealth heads from 440source + pistons but what?

And lifters also but what?


Probably new gasket,head bolts, what else?

Do I need to take the engine out of the car or can it stay while the parts are going in?

The money is not the problem here, but I just don't want to spend a lot of money if its not necessary.


Really appreciate all the help im getting. Thank you so much guys.

[SeattleCharger]

Are you putting in new pistons?    are you getting the engine bored out?