I give up, 440's just run HOT

[69chargeryeehaa]

ok, here's the deal, 69 charger r/t, 440/727/8.75 with 3.23. Stock 440 with eddy CH4B intake, eddy 1411 750 afb. New stock rad, shroud, stock fan, 180*deg stat, electric fan on front (pusher), insulating carb gasket/spacer. That's what I'm working with.

It seems like whenever it gets warmer, the car just starts to run hot only when sitting at a light, drive thru, ect....
Timing is perfect, 15*deg initial, 35 total, 14 vac. Plugs look perfect, the car runs perfect. Driving temp is always 185*deg, but when you sit at a light, it creeps up to 190, sitting in a drive thru last night and it went to 200 and then started running like crap. I just don't get why this thing runs hot, my old charger, identical setup (intake, timing, carb, ect...) did the EXACT same thing. Coolant is clean, recently changed, hoses are not collapsing, thermostat confirmed on the stove, engine has perfect compression, no oil use, <10000mi on rebuild, no crud in the motor/rad it's all NEW.

Someone please tell me a solution, this is driving me nuts I've tried everything to solve this nothing works. The electric fan just prolongs the temp creep up, but it still gets to 195+ and then starts running like crap. I've changed the:coil, ecu (chrome), plugs, wires, dist pickup, ect....EXACT SAME THING. It's not a ignition issues, it seems to be a carb issue when it runs bad when getting hot, but if it didn't run hot it would run perfect..IDEAS?? or is this just the way it is?

[Charger-Bodie]

Have you tried "Water Wetter"? I had a 440 that acted like that and I put some of that in there and it helped alot.

[BMOTOXSTAR]

My 400 BB in my 73' Charger does the same thing. 
Everyting is in great working order but .....
The 318 in the SatellRunner never over heats.

[BrianShaughnessy]

22" core or a 26" core rad?

Your post says new stock rad and stock shroud.   440 auto R/T's typically came with 22" core.     

[69chargeryeehaa]

Have you tried "Water Wetter"? I had a 440 that acted like that and I put some of that in there and it helped alot.

yes, did nothing

[69chargeryeehaa]

22" core or a 26" core rad?

Your post says new stock rad and stock shroud.   440 auto R/T's typically came with 22" core.     

it's the larger one of the 2.

[mikepmcs]

Have you tried "Water Wetter"? I had a 440 that acted like that and I put some of that in there and it helped alot.

+1

they have some other things as well that say they will make the car run 20* cooler.

v/r
Mike

[Charger-Bodie]

Do you have A/C?

[69chargeryeehaa]

Do you have A/C?

no

[Charger-Bodie]

2 or 3 row radiator?  doe you also have a stock fan? to go with the elec. pusher?

[RECHRGD]

When I first got my car on the road it would overheat in traffic.  The first thing I tried was a two core aluminum radiator.  It helped but did not cure the problem.  Then I changed from a flex fan to a viscous type fan and there was no improvement.  The next attempt was to install an electric pusher fan that is thermostatically controlled.  That helped some more, but on a hot day if stuck in traffic, the temperature would still creep up to uncomfortable areas.  The last thing that finally seemed to cure it was installing a Milodon aluminum high flow waterpump and t-stat.  Now the only time the electric fan kicks on (set at 185) is on a very hot day if stuck in traffic and it will cool the engine down to the point where it will shut off.  In other words the fan will cycle on and off just like a modern car.  Bob

[Back N Black]

I had a Chevy 350, that did the same. i replaced everything that you mentioned and still running hot. The last item that i changed was the water pump, cured the problem.  ??

[Blown70]

If not a show car I would go with an aluminum radiator and A GOOD one, not the cheapest you could find.  Also, consider a water pump that may not be up to par?  I have had problem changed 3 different t-stats and nothing. 

If not then I thin RECHARGD too gave you some good pointers.....

Tom

[Rob R]

I'd try fattening it up and see if that has any effect...chances are there's a piston that's a couple of tenths too tight...seen it more times than I can count

[69chargeryeehaa]

i did try fattening it up, the only thing it did was make my eyes burn!!!

I'm going to remove the pusher fan, install the rubber seal from hood to rad support, try that.  Next step is flush and fill with 160 stat, if that does'nt work water pump.

thanks

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

200º is not THAT hot IMHO.......215-220 IS hot
Just as long as it cools back down.... that is key

I also assume you are using a quality aftermarket gauge to measure this temp & not the stock inaccurate dash gauge?

[69chargeryeehaa]

200º is not THAT hot IMHO.......215-220 IS hot
Just as long as it cools back down.... that is key

I also assume you are using a quality aftermarket gauge to measure this temp & not the stock inaccurate dash gauge?

yes, factory gauge and mechanical aftermarket.

[RD]

200 isnt hot, really, especially sitting in traffic with no air movement over your engine to assist in cooling.  hell, when the cars came out that is what happened all the time.  I remember in '76 or thereabouts my 73 charger overheating in traffic (San Diego, CA).  They are big engines and if sitting around other heat producing vehicles on a hot day with the sun shining... its expected.

now.. to fix the problem.. yeah, do the above hehe

[440fan]

i did try fattening it up, the only thing it did was make my eyes burn!!!

I'm going to remove the pusher fan, install the rubber seal from hood to rad support, try that.  Next step is flush and fill with 160 stat, if that does'nt work water pump.

thanks

I have a survivor 69 Dodge Coronet R/T with a 440 magnum engine and 4 speed and a 160 degree stat is going to do nothing to cool it down. I installed a Mr Gasket Hi Flow 180 degree stat and flushed and refilled with coolant and made sure that timing was right on. Also, make sure that you are not running lean because THAT  can really heat up the engine. These engines do run on the hot side and like the carb on the rich side of the setting...

[resq302]

One thing I found by mistake was when my water pump seal started leaking, I found out that I was supposed to have an 8 blade impeller vs. the 6 blade that was installed when the engine was rebuilt.  Turns out the 8 blade impeller is for NON-a/c cars and the A/C cars got the 6 blade, probably cause of the larger rad design.

Also, do you have any coolant leaks?  Might be worth renting a pressure tester and checking for leaks.

Are you moving the coolant through the rad too fast which is not causing the rad to absorb the heat like it should?  I have heard of someone having a similar problem because the coolant was cycling through too fast due to a high volume pump.

How old is the rebuild on the engine?  Or core of the rad?  Maybe scale or rust build up has clogged a passage somewhere.  Also, the studs fo the exhaust manifolds were notorious for leaking.

Do you still have the coiled wire inside the lower rad hose to prevent it from collapsing closed and causing an overheating issue that way?

Just things to check.

[superduperbee]

I've always changed to a 160 degree thermostat in summer, and put the 180 back in for winter. Second thing is the waterpump, I believe Edelbrock makes a high volume waterpump where the rear of the impeller is covered with a disc instead of open. This design makes the coolant flow with less turbulence, thus moving it quicker. Make sure your lower radiator hose has the spring in it or it will collapse and cut the flow. Sounds like you have a big enough radiator and fan/shroud. Like others said,  200 is not all that hot. If you have a real overheating problem it would boil. One last thing, I have rebuilt engines and found them to be packed solid with rust behind the freeze plugs.  Think about giving it a good flush if you have a lot of miles. a small obstruction in any of the passages can give you fits.

[Corellian Corvette]

Your car is running great, and in my opinion you're going to chase a problem you won't be able to solve.

If you're running 185deg with a 180deg thermostat while driving that's exactly how it should be. Your cooling system is working properly.

A cooler thermostat isn't going to help the problem you have and may make it worse. All a 160deg thermostat will do is open earlier, and not allow the proper heat transfer as the water will just flow around the engine. It needs time in the radiator core to properly cool the water before going back into the engine.

These cars get warm - if you're getting up to 200 deg and that's it, you're worrying about nothing. As was said before, you don't need to worry until you're creeping up to the 220+ range, and even then (as was stated) that's only a problem if it's not cooling down as you drive.

Did you say you're runnign 2 fans? One on either side? That's unnecessary, and the "Pusher" fan – unless I'm mistaken that means you have the fan in front of the radiator - That could be a problem – the fan should be on the engine side of the radiator to allow the maximum amount of air volume through the fins. Putting something in front just impedes airflow.

Here's a great experiment that I bet will surprise you. Take both of your fans off the car - the electric fan and the belt driven fan - and drive the car around the neighborhood keeping your speed above 25mph. I bet your car runs at exactly the same 185 - 190deg. The volume of air above 25 or 30 mph should be more than plenty to cool the radiator. If that's the case (and I'll bet you it is), your cooling system is fine. Remove the parasitic belt fan, swap the electric fan to the engine side, and enjoy your ride.

Also – too lean OR too rich can cause the car to run hot. Lean can definitely be a problem. Going *slightly* rich (and I'm talking 1/8 to 1 / 4 turn max to rich) could help. You may want to raise your idle speed just a bit to keep your water pump spinning a little faster. Experiment and see what works.

No older big block is going to stay cool while sitting idling. Ultimately, you're just going to slow the creep, not stop it. I'm sure you're going to be unhappy if you spend a bunch of money on this problem.

The problem with gauges is that you're looking at it it's just something to obsess over.

[myk]

Did you say you're runnign 2 fans? One on either side? That's unnecessary, and the "Pusher" fan – unless I'm mistaken that means you have the fan in front of the radiator - That could be a problem – the fan should be on the engine side of the radiator to allow the maximum amount of air volume through the fins. Putting something in front just impedes airflow.

That's not a bad idea.  I only have the stock engine driven fan and have never had problems with cooling.  Cruising I'm guaranteed 160.  At idle on a hot day 180, maybe 200 but as it was said before it's not a problem..

[Musicman]

Your car is running great, and in my opinion you're going to chase a problem you won't be able to solve.

If you're running 185deg with a 180deg thermostat while driving that's exactly how it should be. Your cooling system is working properly.

A cooler thermostat isn't going to help the problem you have and may make it worse. All a 160deg thermostat will do is open earlier, and not allow the proper heat transfer as the water will just flow around the engine. It needs time in the radiator core to properly cool the water before going back into the engine.

These cars get warm - if you're getting up to 200 deg and that's it, you're worrying about nothing. As was said before, you don't need to worry until you're creeping up to the 220+ range, and even then (as was stated) that's only a problem if it's not cooling down as you drive.

Did you say you're runnign 2 fans? One on either side? That's unnecessary, and the "Pusher" fan – unless I'm mistaken that means you have the fan in front of the radiator - That could be a problem – the fan should be on the engine side of the radiator to allow the maximum amount of air volume through the fins. Putting something in front just impedes airflow.

Here's a great experiment that I bet will surprise you. Take both of your fans off the car - the electric fan and the belt driven fan - and drive the car around the neighborhood keeping your speed above 25mph. I bet your car runs at exactly the same 185 - 190deg. The volume of air above 25 or 30 mph should be more than plenty to cool the radiator. If that's the case (and I'll bet you it is), your cooling system is fine. Remove the parasitic belt fan, swap the electric fan to the engine side, and enjoy your ride.

Also – too lean OR too rich can cause the car to run hot. Lean can definitely be a problem. Going *slightly* rich (and I'm talking 1/8 to 1 / 4 turn max to rich) could help. You may want to raise your idle speed just a bit to keep your water pump spinning a little faster. Experiment and see what works.

No older big block is going to stay cool while sitting idling. Ultimately, you're just going to slow the creep, not stop it. I'm sure you're going to be unhappy if you spend a bunch of money on this problem.

The problem with gauges is that you're looking at it it's just something to obsess over.

Good advice... 

[440fan]

Your car is running great, and in my opinion you're going to chase a problem you won't be able to solve.

If you're running 185deg with a 180deg thermostat while driving that's exactly how it should be. Your cooling system is working properly.

A cooler thermostat isn't going to help the problem you have and may make it worse. All a 160deg thermostat will do is open earlier, and not allow the proper heat transfer as the water will just flow around the engine. It needs time in the radiator core to properly cool the water before going back into the engine.

These cars get warm - if you're getting up to 200 deg and that's it, you're worrying about nothing. As was said before, you don't need to worry until you're creeping up to the 220+ range, and even then (as was stated) that's only a problem if it's not cooling down as you drive.

Did you say you're runnign 2 fans? One on either side? That's unnecessary, and the "Pusher" fan – unless I'm mistaken that means you have the fan in front of the radiator - That could be a problem – the fan should be on the engine side of the radiator to allow the maximum amount of air volume through the fins. Putting something in front just impedes airflow.

Here's a great experiment that I bet will surprise you. Take both of your fans off the car - the electric fan and the belt driven fan - and drive the car around the neighborhood keeping your speed above 25mph. I bet your car runs at exactly the same 185 - 190deg. The volume of air above 25 or 30 mph should be more than plenty to cool the radiator. If that's the case (and I'll bet you it is), your cooling system is fine. Remove the parasitic belt fan, swap the electric fan to the engine side, and enjoy your ride.

Also – too lean OR too rich can cause the car to run hot. Lean can definitely be a problem. Going *slightly* rich (and I'm talking 1/8 to 1 / 4 turn max to rich) could help. You may want to raise your idle speed just a bit to keep your water pump spinning a little faster. Experiment and see what works.

No older big block is going to stay cool while sitting idling. Ultimately, you're just going to slow the creep, not stop it. I'm sure you're going to be unhappy if you spend a bunch of money on this problem.

The problem with gauges is that you're looking at it it's just something to obsess over.

I agree 100% and yes also be careful running to rich but the above advice of 1/8 to 1/4 on the rich side is right on the money...