Rockers ( oh its WORSE) assembly.

[mally69]

Mally,

The crane golds are really descent rockers when used in the right application (NO roller cam spring pressures) and your valvetrain is allready set up for an adjustable rocker arm at this point. The Comp 501 is a slow (Ramp) lazy grind so now is the time to make the move to a better rocker arm. The Crane 1.6 Gold rockers is what i would use for increased valve action and more high lift area with that cam profile.

In a nutshell, swapping to the 1.6's would be like swapping in a better cam and upgrading the rocker arms at the same time. It's time to make something positive out of this negative situation. 



Ron

If I buy those Crane Gold rockers, do they come with the shaft and all.  I did however come across this kit, Its a comp kit, the comp number is 1073-kit I think. It comes with a shaft, rockers, adjusters and spacers. Would this also be a good choice they are 1.6 ratio. Im not sure of the price yet on those.  Also am I able to use the spacers and shaft from the ones from 440 source or would I need to get all new shafts and spacers for new rockers.   Really i would like to get comp pro magnums but they don't make them in a 1.6 ratio...

[69chargerR/T]

What is the benefit of running alum. roller tipped rockers on a mild street build If your car is just a street cruiser why do you need fancy rockers, it just seems to me its just something else that can go wrong. Why not just run stamped steel rockers on a street build, I can see running fancy rockers if your going to race the car also. I don't understand the what the benefit is to run alum. roller tipped rockers on a street car Maybe someone can explain it to me. Alan 

[rav440]

Well, Kim from 440source called.  Good news, they told me after they reveiwed my pics that they decided to send me a replacement rocker arm and a new gasket kit including the head gaskets, and a NEW HEAD..     They took care of this situation, so they definalty will see me again for buisness.     

im glad to hear somebody will stand behing their products they sell and do the right thing . 

in the day and age of horay for me and Fu , id bet alot of other companys would have just told you " owell tough luck "

[mally69]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRN%2D64791%2D1&autoview=sku


Here are the rockers.  Now what do I need to do about spacers, shims, and adjusters. Will I be able to use the shaft that I have or not, becuase the shaft that I have is 440sources shaft and has oil holes on both sides, meaning top and bottom of the shaft.

[firefighter3931]

What is the benefit of running alum. roller tipped rockers on a mild street build If your car is just a street cruiser why do you need fancy rockers, it just seems to me its just something else that can go wrong. Why not just run stamped steel rockers on a street build, I can see running fancy rockers if your going to race the car also. I don't understand the what the benefit is to run alum. roller tipped rockers on a street car Maybe someone can explain it to me. Alan 

Alan,

A stamped steel rocker arm would work fine with Mally's engine but going with the 1.6 rocker arm will make more power with his higher flowing heads. The 1.6 rocker ratio makes the engine think the cam is actually bigger than it is. Generally speaking, the increased ratio adds about 5* duration to the cam by accelerating the valve action. On slow (rate of lift) grinds like the Comp 501 this will create more "high lift area" which will make more power.

The factory rocker arms even though they're advertised as 1.5:1 are in most cases less than that so you are not getting full (advertised) lift out of the cam. Using a true 1.5/1.6 rocker arm guarantees that you get the most out of your cam profile. With good heads this is worth doing ! 


Example using the Comp 501 :

.334 lobe lift x 1.45 = .484 lift (Factory non adjustable rocker...in some cases the ratio is as low as 1.4 but i used 1.45 for this example)
.334 lobe lift x 1.65 = .551 lift (Crane gold 1.6 rocker arms which are 1.65 measured ratio)


As you can see there is increased lift with the better rocker ratio and the valve is also lifted off the seat faster due to the superior rocker ratio. This all helps especially with cylinder heads that flow well. Factory unported heads will stall at .500 lift so opening the valve to .550 has minimal benefit. Also when using a factory head you must modify the valve guide or there will be clearance issues (retainer to guide interferance)



Ron

[firefighter3931]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRN%2D64791%2D1&autoview=sku


Here are the rockers.  Now what do I need to do about spacers, shims, and adjusters. Will I be able to use the shaft that I have or not, becuase the shaft that I have is 440sources shaft and has oil holes on both sides, meaning top and bottom of the shaft.

The Crane Golds work with stock shafts so as long as the 440 source shafts are the correct diameter they will work fine. The crane rockers come with their own adjusters.



Ron

[mally69]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRN%2D64791%2D1&autoview=sku


Here are the rockers.  Now what do I need to do about spacers, shims, and adjusters. Will I be able to use the shaft that I have or not, becuase the shaft that I have is 440sources shaft and has oil holes on both sides, meaning top and bottom of the shaft.

The Crane Golds work with stock shafts so as long as the 440 source shafts are the correct diameter they will work fine. The crane rockers come with their own adjusters.



Ron

Not to be a pain in the ass or anything about all this, but do the adjusters use a pushrod that has a cup or a ball?

[RECHRGD]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRN%2D64791%2D1&autoview=sku


Here are the rockers.  Now what do I need to do about spacers, shims, and adjusters. Will I be able to use the shaft that I have or not, becuase the shaft that I have is 440sources shaft and has oil holes on both sides, meaning top and bottom of the shaft.

The Crane Golds work with stock shafts so as long as the 440 source shafts are the correct diameter they will work fine. The crane rockers come with their own adjusters.



Ron

Not to be a pain in the ass or anything about all this, but do the adjusters use a pushrod that has a cup or a ball?

The adjusters are the ball type.  I upgraded to the Smith Brothers adjusters based upon a recommendation from another member here, but I doubt that it's necessary on a street build.  Bob

[mally69]

Just ordered all my rockers. They told me at summit that I get the rockers shafts spacers ajusters and all for $389 seems like a good deal I hope they hold up. Ill post pics when they get it.

[ryan053]

i was looking at the crane golds on summit but didnt order them cause in the suggested parts it lists the shafts separately.  When you get them will you please let me know if they came with the shafts.

[mally69]

i was looking at the crane golds on summit but didnt order them cause in the suggested parts it lists the shafts separately.  When you get them will you please let me know if they came with the shafts.

I will have them tomarrow, and YES I will let you know  ..  I also noticed that, so when I ordered the rockers I made sure I asked and the rep about that and he  told me that the shaft and everything comes with them, at least they had better come with them.

[firefighter3931]

Just ordered all my rockers. They told me at summit that I get the rockers shafts spacers ajusters and all for $389 seems like a good deal I hope they hold up. Ill post pics when they get it.

Good score ! 

Post a few pics when you get a chance.


Ron

[mally69]

I got the engine out today, Here is a pic..................  The piston is fine, ill take a pic tomarrow has a few dents on top, and a small one on the edge but it will be fine. But the cylinder is definatley going to be sleaved. If I had it bored .60 over that would probably  clear things up, but I am like hell buying all new pistons and blowing it .60 over and having that all rebalanced etc.....  For this build I beleive a sleave would be just fine.

[mally69]

Here they are.....  They are a bit different from the other rockers I had before. The Crane's use a spring for the spacer between the rockers instead of a  steel spacer like 440source's, and the crane's do not have a rollerized center where it runs on the shaft..  No big deal with either two differnces just thought id throw that in just for some informational purposes. Probably better to not have needle bearings, becuase they (could) break and go floating throught your engine.  These Crane rocker's look very good, I am hoping these hold up. Oh and they come in a complete kit as you can see it costed me $ 389. 

Another thing i ran into is, I am using speedpro 2295 pistons. ( note ) I have 3500 miles on this engine since it was rebuilt. We measured every cylinder and it they all come out to 4.352. this engine was to be .30 (4.350)over will those 2 thousandths be anything to worry about. I am supposed to have 5 thousanths piston to wall clearance but with those 2 extra thousandths its coming out to 7 thousandths piston to wall clearance. Is that to much or will it be alright 

[mally69]

More...

[firefighter3931]

. Probably better to not have needle bearings, becuase they (could) break and go floating throught your engine.  These Crane rocker's look very good, I am hoping these hold up. Oh and they come in a complete kit as you can see it costed me $ 389. 

Mally, with a flat tappet cam and spring pressures in the 350lb range the non rollerized fulcrum is fine. Needle bearings work good when you run bigger spring pressures (Roller cam) but the rocker needs to be of higher quality as well. That means Harland Sharp or Jesel or T&D and those aren't cheap ! You have the T&D rockers with your Indy top end package. 

The springs between the rockers work great...no worries there. That is good value for your money and the Crane Golds are very durable. The 1.6 ratio will add some power to the overall package as well. 

Another thing i ran into is, I am using speedpro 2295 pistons. ( note ) I have 3500 miles on this engine since it was rebuilt. We measured every cylinder and it they all come out to 4.352. this engine was to be .30 (4.350)over will those 2 thousandths be anything to worry about. I am supposed to have 5 thousanths piston to wall clearance but with those 2 extra thousandths its coming out to 7 thousandths piston to wall clearance. Is that to much or will it be alright

The piston to wall clearance is a non issue with those speedpro slugs. Mine were set at .0065 when the shortblock was rebuilt. It's important to allow for thermal expansion and the forged slugs do expand as the engine reaches operating temp. I wouldn't think twice about running them at .007 



Ron

[mally69]

Thanks for pointing those rockers out Ron. I am very pleased with them, now if only I can get that thing on the streets again soon ..

I just wasn't certain about the bore sizes, you definalty cleared that up. I know I have 4 or 5 thousandths piston to wall clearance on the  512, and I found that I had 7 thousandths on this one build and it made me a bit nervous, but its all good now . 

[ryan053]

Thanks for posting the pics of the new rockers.  Are you planning on using the 440 source hold downs with the new rockers?

[firefighter3931]

Thanks for pointing those rockers out Ron. I am very pleased with them, now if only I can get that thing on the streets again soon ..

I just wasn't certain about the bore sizes, you definalty cleared that up. I know I have 4 or 5 thousandths piston to wall clearance on the  512, and I found that I had 7 thousandths on this one build and it made me a bit nervous, but its all good now . 

You're welcome and hopefully the motor won't be down for too long. 

The older speedpro forged pistons expand a little more than the newer high tech stuff. The general rule of thumb is .001 clearance for every inch of bore diameter. You can get away with more on the older speedpros and personally i'd rather have them slightly loose than too tight. Your's are not what i would consider loose at all....more like "just right" 


Ron

[Musicman]

Once again... we wait 

[doctorpimp]

Once again... we wait

[mally69]

Yes, I will use the 440 source hold downs. Those 440 source hold downs came with ARP bolts and those blocks fit in there nicely. While the engine is out, I am going to use GUNK to get rid of all the black greasey looking stuff on my firewall to make it look a bit cleaner in the engine compartment. And reclear it so its shiney again.

[mally69]

Ok, Instead of sleaving that one cylinder, I decided to bore my engine to 40 over. I would like to get my compression around 10.5 - 11.1 .. I have to be able to run pump gas also. Does any one have any good thoughts on a set of  pistons that would get me in that compression range without milling anything off my heads. The domed pistons I had would get me in that compression  range but they aren't the best for quench becuase of the dome and closed chambered heads . I need some ideas................

[Steve P.]

The speedpro 2355 6-pack replacements are available in .040 overbore. Have the block decked and zero the pistons and you will have 10.5:1 with tight quench. 


Ron

[mally69]

The speedpro 2355 6-pack replacements are available in .040 overbore. Have the block decked and zero the pistons and you will have 10.5:1 with tight quench. 


Ron

Thanks, I think those speed pro pistons are what I am gong to end up buying, I looked at them earlier  . Here is one that I found, But I dont know how to calculate the approximate compression ratio for them  http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ROS%2D82009&autoview=sku ..